2 minutes ago, Nytwyng said:

Already covered (and obviously ignored), but...

She did need Chewie to get her (and Finn) of off Starkiller base. Without his arrival in the Falcon, she either would have died with the planet, or at best been captured by the First Order when they retrieved Kylo.

She likewise needed him to get off of the Supremacy. She clearly wasn’t in a First Order ship when she arrived on Crait.

On the Supremacy, Snoke was literally tossing her around like a rag doll using the Force. Only Kylo’s intervention to take control and try to persuade her to the dark side saved her life.

She (and the entire Resistance) needed Luke to provide a distraction - and sacrifice his life - for the handful of them to escape.

I posit she didnt need Chewie and finn to get off starkiller base. as she was already looking for a ship. That she found her friends does not come across as being rescued.

As to Kylo that looked a lot more like Kylo using Rey to get rid of Snoke. Which is not the same as rescueing her.

And I suspect Chewie was hanging around waiting to pick her up.

None of these events are really like Leia recuing Luke on Besbin or Han Rescuing Luke on Hoth.

This damsel isn't in distress enough. But boy howdy do I ever not have a problem with women!

Just now, Stan Fresh said:

This damsel isn't in distress enough. But boy howdy do I ever not have a problem with women!

Boy howdy is that showing a lot of bias. Heaven forbid I want her to earn some stuff instead of having it just handed to her. You dont have character growth if the author just hands the character stuff. This is all stuff a New York Times Best Selling Author has said is the issue. Heaven forbid I want to see character growth instead of just handing the character participation trophies. Boy howdy do you not have the ability to not bring up gender.

Just now, Daeglan said:

Boy howdy is that showing a lot of bias. Heaven forbid I want her to earn some stuff instead of having it just handed to her. You dont have character growth if the author just hands the character stuff. This is all stuff a New York Times Best Selling Author has said is the issue. Heaven forbid I want to see character growth instead of just handing the character participation trophies. Boy howdy do you not have the ability to not bring up gender.

She did earn it!!! That’s the point everyone is trying to get through to you.

Just now, Tramp Graphics said:

She did earn it!!! That’s the point everyone is trying to get through to you.

He knows.

That's not what this is.

4 minutes ago, Daeglan said:

I posit she didnt need Chewie and finn to get off starkiller base. as she was already looking for a ship. That she found her friends does not come across as being rescued.

Really? While Finn lay unconscious in the snow and the planet was falling apart around them, she was already looking for a ship? In the middle of a forest? I must have missed that part.

11 minutes ago, Daeglan said:

As to Kylo that looked a lot more like Kylo using Rey to get rid of Snoke. Which is not the same as rescueing her.

So, being tossed and tortured and surviving only because of Kylo’s machinations somehow doesn’t count? She survived on her own?

13 minutes ago, Daeglan said:

And I suspect Chewie was hanging around waiting to pick her up.

Exactly. She was counting on him to be her ride out of there.

13 minutes ago, Daeglan said:

None of these events are really like Leia recuing Luke on Besbin or Han Rescuing Luke on Hoth.

Why? Because it’s a character you don’t like.

Just now, Tramp Graphics said:

She did earn it!!! That’s the point everyone is trying to get through to you.

No she really didn't and that is the problem. And it has everything to do with how she is written. I havent seen her earn anything.

3 minutes ago, Daeglan said:

No she really didn't and that is the problem. And it has everything to do with how she is written. I havent seen her earn anything.

Still waiting to hear how Luke “earned” telekinesis....

Just now, Nytwyng said:

Really? While Finn lay unconscious in the snow and the planet was falling apart around them, she was already looking for a ship? In the middle of a forest? I must have missed that part.

So, being tossed and tortured and surviving only because of Kylo’s machinations somehow doesn’t count? She survived on her own?

Exactly. She was counting on him to be her ride out of there.

Why? Because it’s a character you don’t like.

Finn Laying unconscious is A not her doing and B another example of why this is bad writting. Why isnt Chewie with them when they confront Kylo? Where was he?

Being used by Kylo does not count as Kylo saving her.

Just now, Daeglan said:

No she really didn't and that is the problem. And it has everything to do with how she is written. I havent seen her earn anything.

Yes, she did. This has been explained time and again. Every one of your points has already been proven false by myself and others over and over, yet you cling to them regardless of the evidence presented. Just because you personally don’t like the character does not make her a “Mary Sue”; nor does it mean she didn’t earn her abilities and successes. She did earn them. She did struggle, she did fail, quite often in fact. She is not a Mary Sue.

1 minute ago, Nytwyng said:

Still waiting to hear how Luke “earned” telekinesis....

So all that levitating rocks and R2 is what? He could barely lift the saber at the beginning. Then he trains with yoda and is balancing rocks and R2 while doing a hand stand. He earned the Telekenisis

Just now, Tramp Graphics said:

Yes, she did. This has been explained time and again. Every one of your points has already been proven false by myself and others over and over, yet you cling to them regardless of the evidence presented. Just because you personally don’t like the character does not make her a “Mary Sue”; nor does it mean she didn’t earn her abilities and successes. She did earn them. She did struggle, she did fail, quite often in fact. She is not a Mary Sue.

Not really. Not in the same way as most other better written strong females in other sources. She just suddenly has abilities when it is convenient to the plot. That is bad writing.

3 minutes ago, Daeglan said:

So all that levitating rocks and R2 is what? He could barely lift the saber at the beginning. Then he trains with yoda and is balancing rocks and R2 while doing a hand stand. He earned the Telekenisis

Except that the first time we see Luke use Telekinesis is on Hoth; which, by the way happened before he went to Dagobah.

Just now, Daeglan said:

Not really. Not in the same way as most other better written strong females in other sources. She just suddenly has abilities when it is convenient to the plot. That is bad writing.

Yes, really. Just because you don’t want to accept it does not make it untrue.

40 minutes ago, Daeglan said:

Finn Laying unconscious is A not her doing and B another example of why this is bad writting. Why isnt Chewie with them when they confront Kylo? Where was he?

When did I say Finn being unconscious was her doing?

And where was Chewie? Getting the frakkin’ Falcon. If he doesn’t, none of them get off the planet.

40 minutes ago, Daeglan said:

Being used by Kylo does not count as Kylo saving her

Preventing her death doesn’t count as saving her. Ooookay. By that logic, Vader likewise didn’t save Luke.

Just now, Tramp Graphics said:

Except that the first time we see Luke use Telekinesis is on Hoth; which, by the way happened before he went to Dagobah.

And how much time is between A New Hope and Empire Strikes back? He was trained on some stuff by Ben on the Falcon and we know more time happened that we saw in the movie. So the Progression works. **** even Ezra gets a better learning the force arc than Rey.

3 minutes ago, Daeglan said:

So all that levitating rocks and R2 is what?

After he first used telekinesis is what it is. After he was handed a power that didn’t previously exist by the writer. So, still waiting to hear how he earned it.

1 minute ago, Daeglan said:

And how much time is between A New Hope and Empire Strikes back? He was trained on some stuff by Ben on the Falcon and we know more time happened that we saw in the movie. So the Progression works. **** even Ezra gets a better learning the force arc than Rey.

Again, prove that he trained in a power that neither he nor the audience had any reason to believe even existed during that time.

2 minutes ago, Nytwyng said:

When did I say Finn bring unconscious was her doing?

And where was Chewie? Getting the frakkin’ Falcon. If he doesn’t, none of them get off the planet.

Preventing her death doesn’t count as saving her. Ooookay. By that logic, Vader likewise didn’t save Luke.

I guess you werent paying attention when it is quite obvious that Kylo used to her. He didnt save her to save her. He kept her from dying for personal gain. Whereas Vader Sacrificed himself to save Luke. See the difference?

2 minutes ago, Daeglan said:

works. **** even Ezra gets a better learning the force arc than Rey.

Ezra had the luxury of roughly 40 hours of storytelling time vs approximately 5.

1 minute ago, Daeglan said:

I guess you werent paying attention when it is quite obvious that Kylo used to her. He didnt save her to save her. He kept her from dying for personal gain. Whereas Vader Sacrificed himself to save Luke. See the difference?

Did I say he didn’t use her?

She would have died without his action. That’s the very definition of saving her.

Just now, Nytwyng said:

Ezra had the luxury of roughly 40 hours of storytelling time vs approximately 5.

that doesnt excuse bad writing. Lazy Storytelling.

1 minute ago, Daeglan said:

I guess you werent paying attention when it is quite obvious that Kylo used to her. He didnt save her to save her. He kept her from dying for personal gain. Whereas Vader Sacrificed himself to save Luke. See the difference?

In this case the net result is the same: the protagonist is prevented from dying. The motivation of the two (Kylo and Vader) is irrelevant to the outcome.

Just now, JorArns said:

In this case the net result is the same: the protagonist is prevented from dying. The motivation of the two (Kylo and Vader) is irrelevant to the outcome.

It does matter when my point is screwing up so bad you need your friends to save you. Being used by a bad guy does not count as being saved by a friend.

3 minutes ago, Daeglan said:

that doesnt excuse bad writing. Lazy Storytelling.

And not liking it doesn’t make it bad writing. It’s no lazier than anything else in the franchise (in particular, the examples you’re holding up as how to do it properly).