3 hours ago, Harlock999 said:

In what way does a slave tied to a junk shop - repairing said junk - have the time and resources and freedom to go about scavenging?

I mean, we see that he's even used the junk to build - not scavenge - his own pod racer.

I'm afraid lil' Anakin was simply a slave and mechanic.

Neither the pod racer nor Threepio were built with parts from Watto’s shop. (Remember, Watto didn’t know that the pod racer existed.) The TPM novelization established that they were parts that he (yep) scavenged.

4 hours ago, Harlock999 said:

In what way does a slave tied to a junk shop - repairing said junk - have the time and resources and freedom to go about scavenging?

I mean, we see that he's even used the junk to build - not scavenge - his own pod racer.

I'm afraid lil' Anakin was simply a slave and mechanic.

So the fact he scavenged parts to make C3P0 is not convincing? Scavenging is what you do when you dont have resources.

3 hours ago, Nytwyng said:

Neither the pod racer nor Threepio were built with parts from Watto’s shop. (Remember, Watto didn’t know that the pod racer existed.) The TPM novelization established that they were parts that he (yep) scavenged.

Anyone can scavenge, not anyone can be a mechanic capable of building a racing vehicle or Droid from junk. Clearly if it was between the two, he meets the higher of the two pre-requisites. Not that it matters, trying to say what specs Anakin/Vader belongs to would be equivalent to printing lists of half the careers.

6 hours ago, Nytwyng said:

Neither the pod racer nor Threepio were built with parts from Watto’s shop.

How do we know this? Are you certain the novelization makes it clear these parts were found in the desert somewhere? And, if so, how did Anakin get the freedom and resources (he's a little dude in TPM btw) to acquire these various bits?

As far as the films are concerned, Anakin sure seems to have used junk from Watto's shop - yes, more than likely without Watto's permission - to build both Threepio and the pod racer.

2 hours ago, Harlock999 said:

How do we know this? Are you certain the novelization makes it clear these parts were found in the desert somewhere? And, if so, how did Anakin get the freedom and resources (he's a little dude in TPM btw) to acquire these various bits?

As far as the films are concerned, Anakin sure seems to have used junk from Watto's shop - yes, more than likely without Watto's permission - to build both Threepio and the pod racer.

Because Anakin said so. He also knew Watto would beat him if he took stuff from him. I suggest you go rewatch it. You should also pay attention Anakin got time off and had friends that were not a part of Watto's shop. He knew people in town. So yes he had enough freedom to scrounge parts.

Medieval peasants and serfs had more time off than the modern western worker. So I can easily see Anakin having enough time to scrounge through the scrap piles of useless junk around to get enough parts.

Anakin COULD be a scavenger or not but that's not the only reason we could be seeing scavenger in the book.

Episode 1 did have a LOT of scavenger references in it. Pod Racers, Jawas, Tusken Raiders, Qui-Gon needing parts, Watto's junk shop, Slaves in need, Jar Jar exiled in the forest, etc...

Clone Wars had Gah Nachkt and I would argue Darth Maul and the planet of scavengers. Wasn't there the street urchin girl, Cassie something in an episode as well that was kind of a pickpocket/scavenger? I haven't seen all of the Clone Wars, sorry.

My point is that a lot players, myself included have made scavenger like characters and a specialization could make for some cool Dickens like characters. Also we got Jawas and Tuskens as playable species a few weeks ago and the timing is great on that. I see no problem with them being included here finally. I've been craving this specialization for awhile now.

Also Entrepreneur and Performer are specializations lol.

From the canon section of Wookieepedia:

"Once, while he was working in Watto's scrap yard, he found a broken servomotor he thought he could repair and use on the droid he was building and asked his master for it. With a glance, Watto saw that it was worthless and grunted that he could, but as Skywalker walked away, Watto told him nothing was free, and had him work harder the next day. Skywalker got the photoreceptors for the droid at a market in Mos Espa. Though a Gran wanted them too and chased him through the market, Skywalker escaped by destroying an Ithorian's stall and blocking the Gran's pursuit. He was close friends with fellow slaves Kitster Banai and Wald, as well as the elderly Jira. He also built his own podracer.

At some point, Watto told Anakin to go and throw away some scrap. When looking at it, Anakin found an ultra power cell, just what he needed for his pod. Suddenly, a swoop gang with a Devaronian member attacked the streets and shot the generator for the medical center. When Anakin examined it to see if he could repair the generator he saw that it needed a power cell. So, he took his and saved the medical center. A week later, Anakin participated in a pod race with Sebulba who made him lose by cheating. Anakin stated that if he would have used the power cell on his own pod, he would have won but that it was more important for the medical center to receive it."

It seems Anakin did indeed gather parts from Watto's scrap yard. Although it's not unreasonable to assume he also found bits of scrap from other Mos Espa residents' trash piles. However, we now also know he used what little money he had to purchase parts from nearby vendors.

While *technically* one could see sifting through junk piles as scavenging? I still view Anakin as a mechanic looking for parts rather than an individual rooting through condemned structures and wrecks for substantive materials to sell.

The only true scavengers we see in the prequels are various Jawas flitting about Mos Espa probably looking to use their newfound cash to get lost in the sauce.

1 hour ago, Harlock999 said:

From the canon section of Wookieepedia:

"Once, while he was working in Watto's scrap yard, he found a broken servomotor he thought he could repair and use on the droid he was building and asked his master for it. With a glance, Watto saw that it was worthless and grunted that he could, but as Skywalker walked away, Watto told him nothing was free, and had him work harder the next day. Skywalker got the photoreceptors for the droid at a market in Mos Espa. Though a Gran wanted them too and chased him through the market, Skywalker escaped by destroying an Ithorian's stall and blocking the Gran's pursuit. He was close friends with fellow slaves Kitster Banai and Wald, as well as the elderly Jira. He also built his own podracer.

At some point, Watto told Anakin to go and throw away some scrap. When looking at it, Anakin found an ultra power cell, just what he needed for his pod. Suddenly, a swoop gang with a Devaronian member attacked the streets and shot the generator for the medical center. When Anakin examined it to see if he could repair the generator he saw that it needed a power cell. So, he took his and saved the medical center. A week later, Anakin participated in a pod race with Sebulba who made him lose by cheating. Anakin stated that if he would have used the power cell on his own pod, he would have won but that it was more important for the medical center to receive it."

It seems Anakin did indeed gather parts from Watto's scrap yard. Although it's not unreasonable to assume he also found bits of scrap from other Mos Espa residents' trash piles. However, we now also know he used what little money he had to purchase parts from nearby vendors.

While *technically* one could see sifting through junk piles as scavenging? I still view Anakin as a mechanic looking for parts rather than an individual rooting through condemned structures and wrecks for substantive materials to sell.

The only true scavengers we see in the prequels are various Jawas flitting about Mos Espa probably looking to use their newfound cash to get lost in the sauce.

Maybe not put artificial limitations on what a scavenger is. Also there were several scavengers in the cartoon. I get it you dont think Anakin was a scavenger. Though Watto used Anakin for his ability to turn junk back into working parts which is a scavenger thing. Rey is also a scavenger which likely also played a factor.

I got my book last night and read the description and found it to be wildly appropriate. This book frames an intergalactic war with individuals being blockaded from food and supplies and battles being waged on countless planets. People are going to need to scavenge to get by and the ruins of war are great places for this to occur. I don't think Anakin is the reason this is included in this book. I think it's included here because it is thematically appropriate. When I saw the picture for the Universal Spec that had a Geonosian who looks like a mechanic that crossed into Scavenger with worn Clone armor and pieces of tech on him from the battles of his world, it sparked wonder in me of who this character is. He looks like so much fun to play. Pick any planet where a clone wars battle takes place and you have a character who may have had to turn to scavenger to get by because of the era in which you play. I love it.

17 minutes ago, Drig said:

I got my book last night and read the description and found it to be wildly appropriate. This book frames an intergalactic war with individuals being blockaded from food and supplies and battles being waged on countless planets. People are going to need to scavenge to get by and the ruins of war are great places for this to occur. I don't think Anakin is the reason this is included in this book. I think it's included here because it is thematically appropriate. When I saw the picture for the Universal Spec that had a Geonosian who looks like a mechanic that crossed into Scavenger with worn Clone armor and pieces of tech on him from the battles of his world, it sparked wonder in me of who this character is. He looks like so much fun to play. Pick any planet where a clone wars battle takes place and you have a character who may have had to turn to scavenger to get by because of the era in which you play. I love it.

I dont think Anakin is the reason. I think he is a reason. Among many to include it.

11 hours ago, Daeglan said:

Rey is also a scavenger which likely also played a factor.

Bingo. We have a winner.

I guess my sarcasm earlier went unnoticed by the majority of you (especially those of you still clinging to the belief that Anakin was a scavenger).

Of course Reyrey Sue is the reason for the Scavenger inclusion. Again, my critical/satirical take on the matter - posted on May 11 in response to Eoen - was that the new trilogy has absolutely nothing to do with the Clone Wars.

That said, I *do* like Drig's recipe for making lemonade.

1 hour ago, Harlock999 said:

Bingo. We have a winner.

I guess my sarcasm earlier went unnoticed by the majority of you (especially those of you still clinging to the belief that Anakin was a scavenger).

Of course Reyrey Sue is the reason for the Scavenger inclusion. Again, my critical/satirical take on the matter - posted on May 11 in response to Eoen - was that the new trilogy has absolutely nothing to do with the Clone Wars.

That said, I *do* like Drig's recipe for making lemonade.

Nah, the fact that Anakin is a scavanger and Rey is a scavenger is an example of synergy. Also do you claim that Anakin is not a Mary Sue? He's literally immaculately conceived. He wins a high stakes professional race at age 9, and they follows it up by climbing in the cockpit of a starfighter he's never flown before, and then singlehanded, he blows up a battleship.

Anakin was a deeply flawed character, and he certainly did not gain the trust and approval of those around him. Aside from Qui-Gon, every other Jedi seemed wary of him. And once he became a Jedi? Could he screw up any more than he did? Geezus.

Sure, the Force and "destiny" had the boy by the balls, but just because Lil' Annie could pilot a racer and ship using Force-given reflexes did not make him a Mary Sue.

Rey, on the other hand, is seemingly skilled in a wide variety of endeavors ... AND receives enormous validation for her actions from everyone around her. Also, if she has a flaw, I have yet to recognize it.

Finally, there is much more synergy between Luke and Rey than Anakin and Rey. (And not because Anakin isn't, in any way, a scavenger.) The associations an audience could derive between Luke and Rey were what Abrams and Disney were banking on... "Gee, this all seems familiar. And comfortable." The only difference? Again, the sad fact that The Mouse turned to a Mary Sue Superlady instead of an individual who had to mature, had to strive to better him/herself , and had to tackle murky moral dilemmas.

From “Anakin can’t possibly be a Scavenger” to “Rey is a Mary Sue but Luke isn’t” in just a post or two.

Yay?

45 minutes ago, Harlock999 said:

Anakin was a deeply flawed character, and he certainly did not gain the trust and approval of those around him. Aside from Qui-Gon, every other Jedi seemed wary of him. And once he became a Jedi? Could he screw up any more than he did? Geezus.

Sure, the Force and "destiny" had the boy by the balls, but just because Lil' Annie could pilot a racer and ship using Force-given reflexes did not make him a Mary Sue.

Rey, on the other hand, is seemingly skilled in a wide variety of endeavors ... AND receives enormous validation for her actions from everyone around her. Also, if she has a flaw, I have yet to recognize it.

Finally, there is much more synergy between Luke and Rey than Anakin and Rey. (And not because Anakin isn't, in any way, a scavenger.) The associations an audience could derive between Luke and Rey were what Abrams and Disney were banking on... "Gee, this all seems familiar. And comfortable." The only difference? Again, the sad fact that The Mouse turned to a Mary Sue Superlady instead of an individual who had to mature, had to strive to better him/herself , and had to tackle murky moral dilemmas.

Agreed. I know that there will be many who stand up and defend the sequel trilogy, and I don't post to rain on their enjoyment of a thing, but I think that the story would have had much more acceptance had there been some sort of training shown and reinforced, along with some more establishment of her growth per what we have come to expect from others (Luke, Anakin, Ezra, Kanan, etc.) The limited time with Luke and the very real challenges that have been overcome just feel unearned in some ways, and that's probably due to trying to fit in a lot of story in a limited time. But that's where things like Canto Bight might have been pulled in favour of a journey of self discovery and growth alongside Luke etc.

2 hours ago, Harlock999 said:

Also, if she has a flaw, I have yet to recognize it.

I suggest watching the films Star Wars Episode VII: The Force Awakens (released in 2015) and Star Wars Episode VIII: The Last Jedi (Released in 2017). Should help you get a grasp on the character of Rey.

Rey being flawless? That's nonsense. Even the most cursory viewing of the sequels shows that she clings to illusions to an unhealthy degree and lets her fear override her good sense.

Staying on Jakku. Not taking Han's job offer. Thinking she can turn Ben. Those are the actions of someone living a fantasy.

Why are we doing this here, now in this forum?

Rise of the Separatists. Clone Wars. This book and everything about it have nothing to do with Rey's character development other then yes, she probably should have the universal spec of Scavenger.

Can we show some restraint in hating these movies. They are part of Star Wars. The end. You can have your own head canon or whatever but it's done. Is telling people that Rey is a Mary Sue new information? How is blasting this at us any different then a non-nerdy person yelling at us that RPG is adults playing make believe. If you don't like it or agree with it then whatever. That's your choice but it's entertainment and some people found it entertaining.

I don't care that my entertainment has flaws. RPG has flaws. Whatever. This stuff is fatiguing. It's becoming bullying and I'm so over it.

10 minutes ago, Drig said:

Why are we doing this here, now in this forum?

Rise of the Separatists. Clone Wars. This book and everything about it have nothing to do with Rey's character development other then yes, she probably should have the universal spec of Scavenger.

Can we show some restraint in hating these movies. They are part of Star Wars. The end. You can have your own head canon or whatever but it's done. Is telling people that Rey is a Mary Sue new information? How is blasting this at us any different then a non-nerdy person yelling at us that RPG is adults playing make believe. If you don't like it or agree with it then whatever. That's your choice but it's entertainment and some people found it entertaining.

I don't care that my entertainment has flaws. RPG has flaws. Whatever. This stuff is fatiguing. It's becoming bullying and I'm so over it.

Bullying comes from trying to control others... like you're doing by trying to demand the conversation follows what you want. If you don't like it, just ignore it.

3 minutes ago, HappyDaze said:

Bullying comes from trying to control others... like you're doing by trying to demand the conversation follows what you want. If you don't like it, just ignore it.

Wait....

So saying, “Everyone’s entitled to their opinion on the movies, but can we stay on topic for this thread,” is now “bullying” and “controlling?”

What should we then make of saying, “Don’t tell people what they should do. Here’s what you should do?”

*sigh*

2 minutes ago, Nytwyng said:

Wait....

So saying, “Everyone’s entitled to their opinion on the movies, but can we stay on topic for this thread,” is now “bullying” and “controlling?”

What should we then make of saying, “Don’t tell people what they should do. Here’s what you should do?”

*sigh*

I know, right!

12 minutes ago, HappyDaze said:

Bullying comes from trying to control others... like you're doing by trying to demand the conversation follows what you want. If you don't like it, just ignore it.

You know, I sat for a good bit before posting that trying to decide if I should engage in this or not. I was hoping that we could discuss this book some more but you know what, you're right, this conversation has flowed to Rey is Mary Sue and the last thing I want to be associated with is controlling others. One of the themes of the Star Wars is this. Maybe I am wrong for liking Rey, I mean she's pretty much one of my favorite characters. I watched The Last Jedi in a rough time in my life and the journey of these characters resonated with my personal life in quite a few ways so maybe I'm just biased. I'll ignore this discussion. Your response has controlled me.

I watched a few youtube videos last night on what exactly a mary sue is. It seems to me a character is a Mary Sue if conservative males don't like a female social justice warriors. But really what is a Jedi if not a warrior for social justice? Rey also isn't a flawless character. Rey gets roughed up by thugs at Nema outpost, gets chased by tie fighters, accidental releases the Rathtars, gets totally freaked out by the force, gets captured and ends up needing to be rescued. Luke doesn't seem to impressed by her either, while Finn on the other hand develops a school boy crush on her.

I'm thinking maybe this thread has run it's course.

Unless we can somehow still make boat memes, cause that would be fun.