31 minutes ago, TheBalzan said:

I'd go the other way merge all the forums into once place, it's evident it's all the one game, no need to segment discussion.

Or a little from Column A and a little from Column B, using a similar structure as the Genesys forum:

A main Genesys/Star Wars forum with nested sub-forums for the different settings/lines.

So a possible avenue to consider with regards to FFG selling copies of the book at Celebration rather than sending their limited stock out to folks that had pre-ordered...

It's entirely possible that the decision to do so wasn't made by FFG at all, and was a directive handed down by Lucasfilm, the folks in charge of the license and as such have the right to dictate certain terms no matter how the license holder might feel about it. Given that Celebration is Lucasfilm's big annual event, it'd make sense they'd want their licensees to have product available to the con-goers that's not generally available to the masses.

I got to talk to Sam Stewart a bit at GamerNationCon 6, and when the topic of RotS delays came up in one of the conversations I was a part of, he was quite disgruntled over how things had shaken out; being a professional he didn't provide any details (and none of us in that conversation asked for any in the first place) but he was clearly frustrated over the delay, and so it's not out of the realm of possibility that he was aware that a limited stock was going to be at Celebration in less than a week's time while the rest of the consumer base has to still wait an as-of-yet unspecified time, and that the reaction to this was going to be what we've seen in this thread, namely a lot of vitrol and bile being hurled at FFG for a decision that was not theirs to make.

For instance, back when AotC was on the horizon, Lucasfilm handed WotC a directive to publish a new core rulebook of their Star Wars d20 game using images and stills from the upcoming movie, most likely in an attempt at cross-promotional efforts for said film. Now, WotC could have just simply redone the layouts and published said book with the same mechanical crunch as the previous core rulebook, but they instead took that mandate and used it as an opportunity to update and try and fix a number of issues that had come to light since the release of what came to be known as the OCR, thus leading to the RCR. The degree of success in WotC's efforts to update/fix the d20 ruleset is a YMMV, but they at least made an effort to fix what they could when it likely would have been much easier to not bother and just go with the letter of Lucasfilm's mandate. This all per JD Wiker, who was in charge of the Star Wars RPG line at the time.

There is of course the other issue of if FFG had distributed their limited stock of RotS books to those who had pre-orders, who do they go to? I'm presuming that they have more pre-orders than they had physical books, so even if they did start honoring pre-orders, they were going to catch flak from those folks who didn't pre-order right away. Do they do a random lottery? Again, folks are going to be upset even if the system of selection was totally random. Alphabetical order based upon surname? Good for some, lousy for plenty of others. Much like the argument between doing three separate core rule books or one very general book with a series of specific theme supplements, there's not really any way for FFG to come out without some portion of the consumer base being irate. Yes, it can be argued that they went the "one general book with series of specific theme supplements" route for Genesys, but Genesys is by it's nature intended to be a very generic tool kit, but even that's getting flak given that Genesys by itself requires a fair amount of work from GMs that want to run certain campaign types outside of modern day settings, but that's an entirely different avenue of discussion.

Plus, as others have said, the RPG side of things is a drop in the bucket compared to the revenue that the various minis and card games bring in, to the point that FFG might actually stand to boost their overall profit margins by simply not producing any further RPG content (including cancelling anything that's currently in development, announced or otherwise), and instead focus those resources on far the vastly more profitable product lines.

So does anyone have anything more they can spoil? Equipment lists? Vehicle lists? I'll take anything at this point!

Anything to stop the thread getting locked anyway...

11 minutes ago, ColonelCommissar said:

So does anyone have anything more they can spoil? Equipment lists? Vehicle lists? I'll take anything at this point!

Anything to stop the thread getting locked anyway...

I will second this, I am currently dying and the doctor said that the only cure is those sweet sweet stat blocks, so help a brother out!

2 minutes ago, evo454 said:

I will second this, I am currently dying and the doctor said that the only cure is those sweet sweet stat blocks, so help a brother out!

stat blocks and... more cowbell

49 minutes ago, evo454 said:

I will second this, I am currently dying and the doctor said that the only cure is those sweet sweet stat blocks, so help a brother out!

47 minutes ago, Varlie said:

stat blocks and... more cowbell

Ya'll got any more of those NPCs?

Can some kind soul please, please spoil the B2 Super Battle Droid? I can wait for the rest of the book, but I'm itching to get stats for the B2. I can't wait to send in the Supers, and teach my party why they should watch those wrist rockets.

Does the jedi career discuss saber forms at all?

2 hours ago, Donovan Morningfire said:

So a possible avenue to consider with regards to FFG selling copies of the book at Celebration rather than sending their limited stock out to folks that had pre-ordered...

It's entirely possible that the decision to do so wasn't made by FFG at all, and was a directive handed down by Lucasfilm, the folks in charge of the license and as such have the right to dictate certain terms no matter how the license holder might feel about it. Given that Celebration is Lucasfilm's big annual event, it'd make sense they'd want their licensees to have product available to the con-goers that's not generally available to the masses.

I got to talk to Sam Stewart a bit at GamerNationCon 6, and when the topic of RotS delays came up in one of the conversations I was a part of, he was quite disgruntled over how things had shaken out; being a professional he didn't provide any details (and none of us in that conversation asked for any in the first place) but he was clearly frustrated over the delay, and so it's not out of the realm of possibility that he was aware that a limited stock was going to be at Celebration in less than a week's time while the rest of the consumer base has to still wait an as-of-yet unspecified time, and that the reaction to this was going to be what we've seen in this thread, namely a lot of vitrol and bile being hurled at FFG for a decision that was not theirs to make.

For instance, back when AotC was on the horizon, Lucasfilm handed WotC a directive to publish a new core rulebook of their Star Wars d20 game using images and stills from the upcoming movie, most likely in an attempt at cross-promotional efforts for said film. Now, WotC could have just simply redone the layouts and published said book with the same mechanical crunch as the previous core rulebook, but they instead took that mandate and used it as an opportunity to update and try and fix a number of issues that had come to light since the release of what came to be known as the OCR, thus leading to the RCR. The degree of success in WotC's efforts to update/fix the d20 ruleset is a YMMV, but they at least made an effort to fix what they could when it likely would have been much easier to not bother and just go with the letter of Lucasfilm's mandate. This all per JD Wiker, who was in charge of the Star Wars RPG line at the time.

There is of course the other issue of if FFG had distributed their limited stock of RotS books to those who had pre-orders, who do they go to? I'm presuming that they have more pre-orders than they had physical books, so even if they did start honoring pre-orders, they were going to catch flak from those folks who didn't pre-order right away. Do they do a random lottery? Again, folks are going to be upset even if the system of selection was totally random. Alphabetical order based upon surname? Good for some, lousy for plenty of others. Much like the argument between doing three separate core rule books or one very general book with a series of specific theme supplements, there's not really any way for FFG to come out without some portion of the consumer base being irate. Yes, it can be argued that they went the "one general book with series of specific theme supplements" route for Genesys, but Genesys is by it's nature intended to be a very generic tool kit, but even that's getting flak given that Genesys by itself requires a fair amount of work from GMs that want to run certain campaign types outside of modern day settings, but that's an entirely different avenue of discussion.

Plus, as others have said, the RPG side of things is a drop in the bucket compared to the revenue that the various minis and card games bring in, to the point that FFG might actually stand to boost their overall profit margins by simply not producing any further RPG content (including cancelling anything that's currently in development, announced or otherwise), and instead focus those resources on far the vastly more profitable product lines.

1) That is pure conjecture (and bad logic at that) that FFG was "required contractually" to provide the specific material to SW Celebration. Clearly a license drafted years prior would not speak to this specific event in this manner. There may have been a request for them to provide the latest content, but there would be no way to set up a scenario you envision contractually with any true sense of enforceability to this level of specificity.

2) Their pre-orders (at least internally) are noted as being shipped based upon a first-come-first-served basis, which is why people rush to place pre-orders so they can be among the first to get them. (It's less clear how third party resellers would factor in)

3) No one is suggesting they should have provided 50 copies (etc.) when they couldn't provide the vast bulk. Instead I think they were suggesting;

(a) That FFG communicate delays and expectations more clearly

(b) That FFG be fair in their distribution system (to the best of their ability)

(c) That FFG be competent enough to fix clear issues in their supply management system that have led to these delays for multiple products

4) I doubt anyone has financial statements to back up their premise that the RPG line is a negligible return on investment. Stating this without facts is again supposition and conjecture. It's quite likely that it's more expensive to product than other lines owing to the license and the medium versus something like plastic minis, but I know a lot more individuals who have spent thousands on the RPG line by purchasing every product than on the minis. I myself, have never done so and own every book produced. Additionally, besides a single book in the (sadly short lived) Dawnforge line, I have no other FFG RPGs. A choice to end the line would be a choice to lose customers like myself who continually line up to purchase their materials. I don't know about other people, but it costs nearly $100 per book for me to receive a copy in Canada, and yet I own every one.

Calling for the end of the license is not the answer but neither is calling for the abandonment of the line. All that is required is that component individuals start running the supply management side and that an effort to communicate is made.

Agreed, I don't understand the unwillingness to share the current book's content. This has never been an issue in the past and in fact has been a responsibility of those who had the honour of receiving copies early.

With great power comes great responsibility... and more cowbell.

13 minutes ago, Khazadune said:

Agreed, I don't understand the unwillingness to share the current book's content. This has never been an issue in the past and in fact has been a responsibility of those who had the honour of receiving copies early.

With great power comes great responsibility... and more cowbell.

If your at a multi-day convention you payed for, you might prefer to go to events rather than scanning books for random people. It’s not even released yet at retail. We are lucky somebody posted phone pics online.

As for FFG selling books at Celebration, that’s just marketing 101.

7 hours ago, Flavorabledeez said:

I’d like to know how many of the naysayers/complainers/callers-for-license-cutters are still going to buy this book.

That’s really all that will matter and the only true way to get your opinions about the way FFG does business heard by them. But do you actually have the self control to do it, or is this just the usual hot online air being vented into the ether?

I actually cancelled my preorder. And remember I love the system. Will go to a store one day and read it at the store. Wont be buying it

@Khazadune,

If you have actual hard facts about why FFG had copies of RotS at Celebration, then by all means do share them.

Right now, the only thing that's out there is conjecture. Well, conjecture and the generally unconstructive whining about why some folks don't have the book yet.

As for contractual obligations regarding the license, we don't know and frankly as a contract between FFG and Lucasfilm not a single person on these forums has any right to know the specific details. Baring of course their own sense of self-entitlement that is.

For all that's known, Lucasfilm and FFG came to an arrangement that they'd have a certain amount of stock of certain books for sale at Celebration well in advance, quite possibly before RotS wound up being delayed. As further speculation, this possible agreement between FFG and LFL could have been arranged several months ago when arrangements for Celebration were being finalized.

Now, I can't speak for how much you do or don't know about contract law, but generally speaking it's a bad idea to break faith with the company that owns what has been a very profitable license for your company. I can't imagine saying, "Yeah, I know we agreed to have a certain number of these books for sale at Celebration, but we're going to welch on that agreement to fulfill a small number of pre-orders" is going to fly very well with LFL or with Disney for that matter, and after a company deliberately breaks faith, that doesn't leave a very favorable impression. Case in point, EA with their handling of Battlefront II and such the skepticism about if Fallen Order is going to be any different.

Do a bit of research, and you'll find that licensing agreements can very much be subject to the whim of the license holder. For instance, WotC got burned regarding their efforts at a Dune RPG years ago simply because the people in charge of that license had a last-minute change of mind and pretty much revoked it. Or Green Ronin and the hassles/delays they suffered with Dragon Age, especially with the Faces of Thedas supplement. All things considered, LFL is pretty easy to work with, but that doesn't mean there aren't unexpected curveballs, such as the incident I cited regarding WotC and having to do an AotC-themed rulebook.

Seeing as how Star Wars is almost a license to print money, I'd be very surprised if FFG is going to do anything to jeopardize their business relationship with one of the single most powerful media companies on the planet. Especially as there's a number of other RPG companies that are chomping at the bit to score the license for themselves. Heck, the only reason FFG has the license is WotC/Hasbro decided it wasn't profitable enough and chose not to renew it.

As I noted, the whole situation with RotS was a sore spot with Sam, since the book was slated to come out months ago. Given the people that post on these boards don't know the inner workings of FFG's corporate structure, it may well be the decision to have copies of RotS at Celebration was a decision made without any input from Sam regardless of what Disney/LFL did or didn't want in regards to Celebration.

I have a preorder on the book myself (which I don't plan on cancelling, as I consider a couple of their staff and a number of their freelancers as friends and would like to support their efforts), and while I'm upset that I don't have the book yet, I also get that things don't always go smooth, and don't begrudge those who were willing to shell out the substantial amount of cash to Celebration had the chance to get the book before the rest of us. At this point, I'll get the book when I get it.

While FFG hasn't said anything as to the nature of the book's delay or when they expect to have it, neither have they said that they have no plans to not honor the pre-orders once they're able to do so. Then again, I don't know if anyone's tried their Customer Service lines post-Celebration to see if they've got new information they can share.

But again, if you have insider facts about what actually happened to lead to this particular state of affairs, then by all means feel free to share with the rest of us unenlightened masses. Elsewise, it's all conjecture.

45 minutes ago, Eoen said:

If your at a multi-day convention you payed for, you might prefer to go to events rather than scanning books for random people. It’s not even released yet at retail. We are lucky somebody posted phone pics online.

As for FFG selling books at Celebration, that’s just marketing 101.

Speaking as someone that was able to get a couple of the books early at GenCon a few years ago, I did have far more pressing things to do than to hope onto these forums and answer everyone's questions about what the book contained.

Had I been able to go to Celebration and grab a copy of RotS, I'd certainly be in no hurry to post tidbits of the book's contents here while Celebration was going on.

I mean its disappointing that I don't have my book yet, but it could be a whole lot worse, and FFG won't lose their license for it.

Take anovos, star wars costuming license 2+ years wait for pre-ordered items, little to no communication, recently put a "no refund" policy into effect.

With that in mind....ffg isn't that bad.

5 hours ago, TheBalzan said:

I'd go the other way merge all the forums into once place, it's evident it's all the one game, no need to segment discussion.

This.

So, I'm still curious about what ships and vehicles that appears in Rise of the Seperatists. Do we have a list of this yet?

I'm currently setting up a campaign for this time period, and I'm having a bit of trouble finding a suitable Silhouette 4 ship that really fits into the era (no one likes the Rigger in my group)

1 hour ago, Kilcannon said:

I actually cancelled my preorder. And remember I love the system. Will go to a store one day and read it at the store. Wont be buying it

There's a phrase about cutting off one's own nose to spite one's face...

1 hour ago, Kilcannon said:

I actually cancelled my preorder. And remember I love the system. Will go to a store one day and read it at the store. Wont be buying it

Guess that means Khazadune will get his book just that much quicker...

8 minutes ago, jivjov said:

There's a phrase about cutting off one's own nose to spite one's face...

I just lost interest in owning it. Will preview it and wait till a player wants it. Fact is I will continue to run the games since I love the system. Already spent money on all the other books. Can save on future books since no reason to suport the company. If they communicated to us and not on an individual email basis maybe I would think differently. There is no cutting one's nose to spine one's face since I'm sure there will be a way to see and use the material.

2 minutes ago, Kilcannon said:

Can save on future books since no reason to suport the company. If they communicated to us and not on an individual email basis maybe I would think differently.

There must be only a small handful of businesses that you still do business with, going by that philosophy.

12 hours ago, Stan Fresh said:

Acknowledgement would be great, yeah. Giving a new ETA can be tricky - if one ETA has gone past, giving another that they maybe aren't so sure about will only lead to more annoyance for customers.

Just saying expected quarter would be better than nothing.

1 minute ago, Daeglan said:

Just saying expected quarter would be better than nothing.

If they don't know, they don't know.

4 minutes ago, Daeglan said:

Just saying expected quarter would be better than nothing.

From the sound of things - Donovan’s conversation with Sam at GNC, what someone in another thread on the subject said they were told by someone at the FFG booth at Celebration (they don’t expect it to ship until about another six months), etc - I honestly don’t think they have reliable enough information to even say that right now.

29 minutes ago, Kilcannon said:

no reason to suport the company

An attitude like that will lead to NO books, rather than DELAYED books