Here's an interesting brain teaser. Looking at the major crime syndicates: The Hutts, The Pykes, Black Sun, Crimson Dawn, even Kaji Klub, if you compare them to real world crime syndicates, such as the Mafia, Columbian cartels, Yakuza, the Russian Bratva, and triads, which SW cartel matches up to which real world cartel? Based upon Clone Wars, the Hutts are clearly the SW Mafia, but the others, aren't so clear to me. Black Sun could be the Triads or Yakuza of the SW universe, but I'm not sure which, The Pykes, might be the Columbians, with their strangle hold on drugs, but that's still not clear. What do you guys think? How would you match up the various SW crime syndicates with their real world counterparts?

Black Sun has a Russian flavor to me, but perhaps I'm imparting too much from voice actors using that accent for Falleen. I claim no expertise in the world of organized crime but it seems like there are commonalities between different groups that makes a one-to-one match difficult for me.

3 minutes ago, themensch said:

Black Sun has a Russian flavor to me, but perhaps I'm imparting too much from voice actors using that accent for Falleen. I claim no expertise in the world of organized crime but it seems like there are commonalities between different groups that makes a one-to-one match difficult for me.

Yeah, but stylistically, they look more Chinese or Japanese, particularly in their clothing.

8 minutes ago, Tramp Graphics said:

Yeah, but stylistically, they look more Chinese or Japanese, particularly in their clothing.

I wonder where they fall hierarchically? That's probably going to be the most telling of their organization.

As I read into Legends comics featuring hutts, it looks less like the classic Sicilian Mafia to me, but then again my knowledge there begins and ends with movies.

6 minutes ago, themensch said:

I wonder where they fall hierarchically? That's probably going to be the most telling of their organization.

As I read into Legends comics featuring hutts, it looks less like the classic Sicilian Mafia to me, but then again my knowledge there begins and ends with movies.

As for the Hutts, I'm going by their portrayal in Clone Wars. In particular, the design and characterizations of the members of the Hutt Council were all based off of classic Mafia gang bosses.

4 minutes ago, Tramp Graphics said:

As for the Hutts, I'm going by their portrayal in Clone Wars. In particular, the design and characterizations of the members of the Hutt Council were all based off of classic Mafia gang bosses.

Aha, I'm only looking at Jabba's immediate organization, where it seems like it's him, his majordomo, and then right on to flunkies. Where are the captains, the lieutenants, all the steps on the ladder that The Sopranos and The Godfather (I and II) led me to expect? ?

But I'd forgotten about that storyline in TCW, I'll have to go watch it again.

26 minutes ago, themensch said:

Aha, I'm only looking at Jabba's immediate organization, where it seems like it's him, his majordomo, and then right on to flunkies. Where are the captains, the lieutenants, all the steps on the ladder that The Sopranos and The Godfather (I and II) led me to expect? ?

But I'd forgotten about that storyline in TCW, I'll have to go watch it again.

That too, all of which is "Mafia".

To an extent I think that you'll have trouble getting a good match-up, as (with many things Star Wars) the crime syndicates are more of a representation of the cinematic concept of a criminal organization over an actual realish-world depiction.

I mean, something like Jabba's crew would be nature have more in common with say a drug cartel, given it's common association with smuggling and the spice trade.

But then that's not what pulp inspired movies want to show. They want to show the lord on his throne, with his concubines and lackeys and hangers on.

Additionally, if you do want to really analyze it, is the fact that you end up with some D&Disms in there too. Like Elves, Hutts live thousands of years. So an organization like Jabba's can be working an operation that might literally not pay off until well after it's original participants have died of old age. This might be part of why Jabba's court seems to have little middle-management, to him every one of them is just a flash in the pan. Anyone Jabba knows for less than a few decades is no more important or personal to him than the ants in your ant farm, and someone like a majordomo is probably comparable to a trained hamster or goldfish. Jabba's goals and major scores are something dealing with years and years of work. To him, that's normal, to a human it's amazing strategic planning.

On the other hand Jabba easily could have ample middle management, but as a nature of being a Hutt he might also just be good at handling a lot of that middle management himself. He's the only one that knows how the entire operation is going down an by default compartmentalizes the operation to ensure even a totally blow op can still at the very least not be directly attributable to him, because only he can tie the whole thing together. Again, it's possible that Hutt brain physiology just makes the good at keeping track of lots of things going down at once.

Crimson Dawn is like the Irish mob. Darth Maul just screams Whitey Bulger, and their bosses are just too eager to do the dirty work.

The Pikes would be the Russian mob, they control spice, and engage in slavery.

I think the Hutts are more like the Taliban, than a criminal gang. They have a government function at their local level.

18 hours ago, Eoen said:

I think the Hutts are more like the Taliban, than a criminal gang. They have a government function at their local level.

But they lack any religious element.

Maybe the Hutts are more like the Illuminati?!

I feel like the Hutts would be similar to Albanian gangs. They dabble in everything, have a similar family organisation to the Italian maffia but trafficking and smuggling is the base of their operations.

I wonder, would it be interesting and useful to elaborate on the structures of said syndicates, in broad, flowchart-like terms to help us all create more realistic stories? I've often thought about doing this but I'll reference again my lack of knowledge in the field. Surely there are some adept folks with more knowledge - and no, I'm not implying you're scum & villainy!

2 hours ago, themensch said:

I wonder, would it be interesting and useful to elaborate on the structures of said syndicates, in broad, flowchart-like terms to help us all create more realistic stories? I've often thought about doing this but I'll reference again my lack of knowledge in the field. Surely there are some adept folks with more knowledge - and no, I'm not implying you're scum & villainy!

I think accuracy absolutely helps, if for no other reason than to provide details a GM might lack without much knowledge of criminal power and operational structures. You also find instructive variety between organizations and cultures; for example, not every outfit has the resources to be as ruthless or unyielding as the more popular ones.

Also, at the risk of typing "verisimilitude," I've found it essential to have inspiration from fictional sources that just gets players to nod their heads. TV shows Justified and The Wire, which spent much of their screen time on street-level activity, have launched many an NPC or misadventure.

7 hours ago, WolfRider said:

But they lack any religious element.

We don’t know that the have a sacred book, and a sacred dead home world. We could compare them to the FARQ in Columbia as well.

I see Hutts as Russian oligarchs combining influence in Russian (and beyond) through both political and underworld ties.

With the Hutts, we definitely have some specific depictions of them in the canon establishing them as Sicilian Mafia analogs. As for the others, I never thought about any of the more "minor league" syndicates.

If we add two more SW crime syndicates from the sequel era, Kajiklub and the Guavian Death Gang in the mix things get even more interesting. Kanjiklub definitely seems more like the Chinese Triads, in characterization; whereas the Guavian Death Gang, (at least based upon the leader's personality and accent, leans more towards the Irish mob, more so than any other SW syndicate.

And that's really what I'm trying to base my findings on--How are the characters portrayed, and how each of their cultures, structures, personalities, and appearances, and, most importantly, how they're depicted, compare to real world crime syndicates.

1 hour ago, Tramp Graphics said:

With the Hutts, we definitely have some specific depictions of them in the canon establishing them as Sicilian Mafia analogs.

The only examples I can find, canonical or legends, seem to indicate that the majordomo operates as both an underboss and the consigliere in this analog, with captains leading soldiers underneath. However, I claim unfamiliarity there too, having only read a smattering of applicable legends or canonical material to support this supposition. It's not nearly as complicated as I have assumed, but I would imagine the intra-oganizational networks get rather complicated.

3 minutes ago, themensch said:

The only examples I can find, canonical or legends, seem to indicate that the majordomo operates as both an underboss and the consigliere in this analog, with captains leading soldiers underneath. However, I claim unfamiliarity there too, having only read a smattering of applicable legends or canonical material to support this supposition. It's not nearly as complicated as I have assumed, but I would imagine the intra-oganizational networks get rather complicated.

Watch Clone Wars. In there, they are definitely depicted as analogous to the Sicilian Mafia.

2 minutes ago, Tramp Graphics said:

Watch Clone Wars. In there, they are definitely depicted as analogous to the Sicilian Mafia.

I've seen it. I've also read the Tales from Wild Space omnibus with a ton of Jabba's exploits. I'm ready for the Next Steps™ because my crew is afoul of a hutt! I'm not doubting the similarity, I'm just building a story here and a framework will be beneficial as I populate my NPC roster.

Zaan Consortium were the Russia Mafia of the setting. Far more ruthless than the pikes.

3 minutes ago, BadMotivator said:

Zaan Consortium were the Russia Mafia of the setting. Far more ruthless than the pikes.

Yeah, that's why I figure Pikes are more Columbian Cartel than anything.

2 hours ago, HappyDaze said:

I see Hutts as Russian oligarchs combining influence in Russian (and beyond) through both political and underworld ties.

Almost any politician could be depicted as a Hutt, Putin the Hutt, Hillary and Bill the Hutts, Trudeau the Hutt, Bush Jr. the Hutt, Trump the Hutt, etc. Jabba's real world analog would be Harvey Weinstien.