Spined Threshers are a harder fix. It's not an upgrade that makes them good, it's the base stats.

For the cost, they hit to hard, hit to soon, get a built in bane/re-roll generation, and can take a hit like nothing else.

When they first came out, my regular opponent didn't think they were "that bad". So I ran nothing but threshers in a few games. It was ugly.

Ran 4 block of 4 one game, 11 singles the next. A 6, 4, 2, 2 and 1 in the final game. It didn't matter how I configured the units, it was hideous.

The 11 singles was the most offensive; 22 dice red dice with 11 re-rolls; damage x2. They chewed through everything. Everything is a single model, you can always ignore your whole army for collisions when moving (as long as you clear).

IMO, the best fix is Army Comp. Limit either points or trays spent on Siege units. No other faction has such in imbalance on siege that they would want to spam these like Uthuk does.

I'd certainly be happier with some point cost errata, but that doesn't seem to be FFF's MO. @Ratt had a good idea to just change the RRG - something like you can never enter or exit terrain outside your activation. It's a bit crude and heavy handed, but it certainly deals with all the mobility creep abusing terrain.

17 hours ago, QuickWhit said:

I think that most of that list of "problems" are not issues if the white skill doesn't give the ability to march 4 in 25% of rounds. White skill is common on infantry and not an issue for really any other upgrade. Aggressive Shrieker is reasonably priced and easy to snipe (when in range). Tempered steel is quite fair, especially on a faction that doesn't ready upgrades very well. I find the lethal part of Berzerkers to be very strong, but also pretty fair honestly, as there is a tangeable cost in loss of figures.

Honestly, I think that making Warsprinter just always be a march 2 (not rune dependent) for the unit would be a fair change that would significantly lower it's threat range and allow for some counter-play. This way you could reasonably attempt to snipe it out before it makes a range 5 charge. Additionally, it's ability to suddenly change directions and cover along distance would be reduced. It would still be a solid upgrade, and even be more consistent, while not allow for occasionally bananas moments like charging range 6-7 into something and obliterating it.

Personally, I have not had either Aggressive or Warsprinter sniped out before they have done their part. I have lost them in melee but never before they have dived across the board and got my unit into combat which is well worth the 8 points I have invested.

Going from out of range to engaged really helps.

I think your change is well founded and would certainly reign it in. Unfortunately, it's not going to get changed any time soon. The best people can hope for are other options that make taking Warsprinter/Aggressive less appealing.

There is the Lethal build: Bloodrage + Serrated Spines + Slasher which is decent but is it better then Charge 7 ? Who knows.

9 hours ago, Vergilius said:

1. Spined Threshers are a bigger problem. We've had a lot less discussion of them, probably because a good portion of the community almost takes that for granted.

....

Honestly, I'd rather have costing adjustments and keep the abilities the same.

There was quite a bit of discussion on Spined Threshers shortly after they came out. I believe the consensus of those discussions was that they are undercosted for their health, expected damage output, and bane distribution (this is an oversimplification of course).

I agree that cost adjustments are the way to go. Honestly, a 2-3 point increase on the 2x1 of STs and a 2 point increase on scuttling horror might be enough. They should definitely start with a small nerf and go from there.

I am genuinely hoping that FFG is quietly hammering away at building an official Runewars Army Building app through which they can make points based balance changes.

Re: Spined Threshers

I cannot fathom why this siege unit gets to attack in melee at initiative 4 while every other siege unit attacks at 5. I really wish we could have that change first and then readjust points.

3 minutes ago, Budgernaut said:

Re: Spined Threshers

I cannot fathom why this siege unit gets to attack in melee at initiative 4 while every other siege unit attacks at 5. I really wish we could have that change first and then readjust points.

I'm honestly ok with it attacking at init 4, painful though it is. I like the idea of some units just hit harder and faster and find it thematic for the Uthuk army. As long is it is appropriately costed for its strength.

The problem I really have (if there was to be a change to the unit and not the cost) is the reroll on panic. It's too reliable and increases the damage consistency from the unit too much. Additionally, it makes them harder to flank, which should be their weakness. I think removing that would do a lot to balance the unit.

I would like to state for the record I did not start the turn from topic to "the uthuk are OP".

1 hour ago, QuickWhit said:

There was quite a bit of discussion on Spined Threshers shortly after they came out. I believe the consensus of those discussions was that they are undercosted for their health, expected damage output, and bane distribution (this is an oversimplification of course).

I agree that cost adjustments are the way to go. Honestly, a 2-3 point increase on the 2x1 of STs and a 2 point increase on scuttling horror might be enough. They should definitely start with a small nerf and go from there.

I am genuinely hoping that FFG is quietly hammering away at building an official Runewars Army Building app through which they can make points based balance changes.

We asked about this at worlds, and although the answer was not definitive, it was not encouraging. The X-Wing 2.0 app has caused them serious problems, so it's hard to imagine them justifying taking on ANOTHER outsourcing nightmare for such a minor product line.

33 minutes ago, flightmaster101 said:

I would like to state for the record I did not start the turn from topic to "the uthuk are OP".

Incidentally, it was a “don’t think of an elephant comnent@ by a pro-uthuk person. The ironies of life.