FFG should have a X-Wing Micro version with ships scaled to fit on a 24”x 24” table/mat
Thoughts ?
Edited by Veteran Instincts
X-Wing Micro
Those templates would be tiny.
Yes they would be 33% smaller
but still useable.
I guess I have to wonder what the main purpose of shrinking it is. If it were to get more ships on the table at once, we would just shrink the ships and increase the squad point limits. It sounds like this would just be for people who have smaller tables?
Bah! If you’re going to shrink it, you gotta do a proper job of it.
X-Wing travel edition - uses Armada fighter figures on tiny bases to play on a, what, 8” playing field. Everything magnetized so it doesn’t shift around.
3 hours ago, Forgottenlore said:Bah! If you’re going to shrink it, you gotta do a proper job of it.
X-Wing travel edition - uses Armada fighter figures on tiny bases to play on a, what, 8” playing field. Everything magnetized so it doesn’t shift around.
Actually, I swear I've seen someone post a "travel sized" magnetic version somewhere on the forum...
The purpose of reducing the size is to allow players to play on a smaller table surface
X-Wing mats are 36"x36" and you need some area to place your cards, so a minimum table surface of 43"x43" is required.
A 24"x24" Mat would only require a 31"x31" table.
18 hours ago, Forgottenlore said:Bah! If you’re going to shrink it, you gotta do a proper job of it.
X-Wing travel edition - uses Armada fighter figures on tiny bases to play on a, what, 8” playing field. Everything magnetized so it doesn’t shift around.
It's going to be rather difficult to theft-proof the expansions, isn't it?
Is there an App for that?
A Travel game would still require card space/dice rolling space. I don’t think you should go sub atomic with this.
Just reduce the size so that it can be played on a average size table.
Really when you think about the space, right now you probably need a 48”x48” table plus seating. So now your talking about an 8’x8’ area. Not everyone has that space available
Edited by Veteran Instincts
This reminds me of the first time I sat down to play X-wing in my apartment. only table I had cleared off was a 3x3 coffee table, so me and a buddy set up on that, then we used a TV tray to hold cards. it was awkward, but still fun. Then my wife needed the table to do some planning for work, so our second game was on the floor
Unfortunately this is an issue that's just baked into miniature games. Reducing the size of the games components will solve this issue for some people, but it would also reduce a lot of the hobby aspects of X-wing. Smaller sizes mean less detail on the molds and paint applications. the smaller the ships get, the more difficult it becomes to apply your own custom paint job. Reducing their size could also be seen as a loss, if you're the type of person that has some of their collection on display.
From a business standpoint, it just doesn't make sense to release another mini's game that will be directly competing with a larger version of itself for the attention of players, and table space at your local game shop. The size that they started with is likely what the dev's felt would look best on most table tops, with the game taking up less space than your typical DnD game.
It's not a bad idea to shrink the game down a bit, but the logistics of making it happen, not to mention to money to produce it, would be a big burden on the publisher. In a perfect world we would have tiny spaceships of the exact right level of tininess, but alas we have to deal with financial constraints. I'd play it though. It would feel like I'm playing with micro machines again, and I'd be lying if I said that feeling wasn't part of why I play X-wing in the first place.
Considering prior to x-wing most miniature games were played on 4x4 or bigger, x-wing has already done this.
You are correct, FFG made the decision to produce X-Wing at a specific scale (1/270)
I am not suggesting FFG abandon the current format, I'm suggesting they consider producing X-Wing Micro at about 1/350 scale
The trade off would be less detailed ships in favor of a more tabletop friendly format
Think of it as Sheldon vs Young Sheldon
“As we set out to design our miniatures and our game system, we needed to choose the scale of the game. Too big, and the game play would be unwieldy and take up too much space. Too small, and we’d lose unacceptable amounts of detail, and the models wouldn’t have the physical presence on the tabletop we were seeking. After creating a series of crude rapid prototypes in various sizes, we finally chose 1/270 as our final scale. At this size it was possible to maintain most of each starfighter’s fine details while also making it possible for those players interested in staging larger battles to field a significant number of fighters on the gaming tabletop.”
https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/news/2012/7/16/the-making-of-x-wing-tm/
@ Hippie
Your post about moving from the table to the floor really illustrates the need for a smaller playing surface,
The thread is about giving players the option to buy the same product in a different size, I don't see this as a negative for FFG,
Companies often release products that directly compete with their own product line,
Monopoly is a good example of this, there is well over 1000 different versions of the popular boardgame,
FFG has an opportunity to expand their game into the table top market.
Edited by Veteran Instincts1 hour ago, Veteran Instincts said:@ Hippie
Your post about moving from the table to the floor really illustrates the need for a smaller playing surface,
The thread is about giving players the option to buy the same product in a different size, I don't see this as a negative f or FFG ,
Companies often release products that directly compete with their own product line,
Monopoly is a good example of this, there is well over 1000 different versions of the popular boardgame,
FFG has an opportunity to expand their game into the table top mar ket .
Hippie's wife needed the table, so they moved to the floor, a smaller play area would not have solved this problem. A folding table might, though.
Making the same product in a different size would double the cost for production, and would not increase sales. With only a 33% reduction in size, people would not likely be buying both, and people who have trouble finding 3'x3' gaming space would also have trouble finding enough space for a 2'x2' playing area in most cases. This would also see a split in the tournament circuit since it would require separate events for the two different sizes. This is why it would be a negative for FFG.
FFG expanded into the tabletop gaming market years ago and has had one of the top grossing tabletop miniatures games in the world for several years.
You would be better off with ForgottenLore's idea and making a travel sized x-wing with an 8-12" play area. At least then the games would have something different to offer and could have separate marketing space.
@ TopHatGorilla
"Then my wife needed the table to do so me planning for work, so our second game was on the floor"
Hippie illustrates that he he only had one table big enough to play X-Wing miniatures on, once his wife used that table he was forced to play on the floor. This is the inherent issue with X-Wing at 1/270 scale.
I play at a local game stores, However because of the popularity of the card games (Keyforge, MTG etc) The local game stores all use 30"x48" or 30"x72" tables,
One game store will allow you to rearrange their tables into a 60"x72" table and one supplies a 48" piece of plywood board to place across the table to accommodate X-Wing Miniatures players if table space is available.
If FFG produced a X-Wing Micro on a 24"x24" mat the game stores wound not have to make special accommodations for the game.
Respectfully, Only a select group of employees at FFG know what FFG's costs are to produce the game and the profit they make from the game.
I personally "Fly Casual" so playing it tournament version is not a criteria for me, as a consumer I would be much happier to have the option to purchase a "Micro" or a "Miniatures" size version of the game.
9 hours ago, Veteran Instincts said:@ TopHatGorilla
"Then my wife needed the table to do so me planning for work, so our second game was on the floor"
Hippie illustrates that he he only had one table big enough to play X-Wing miniatures on, once his wife used that table he was forced to play on the floor. This is the inherent issue with X-Wing at 1/270 scale.
I play at a local game stores, However because of the popularity of the card games (Keyforge, MTG etc) The local game stores all use 30"x48" or 30"x72" tables,
One game store will allow you to rearrange their tables into a 60"x72" table and one supplies a 48" piece of plywood board to place across the table to accommodate X-Wing Miniatures players if table space is available.
If FFG produced a X-Wing Micro on a 24"x24" mat the game stores wound not have to make special accommodations for the game.
Respectfully, Only a select group of employees at FFG know what FFG's costs are to produce the game and the profit they make from the game.
I personally "Fly Casual" so playing it tournament version is not a criteria for me, as a consumer I would be much happier to have the option to purchase a "Micro" or a "Miniatures" size version of the game.
Injection molding costs and card printing costs are publicly available. The average for two cavity molds manufactured in China is roughly 10,000 USD each and many would be needed for global distribution. This does not figure in the costs of the plastic, cardboard, shipping, etc.
Whether you personally play in tournaments or not is irrelevant. It still must be considered from a sales standpoint.
It really sounds like you just need to find a store or gaming club that is equipped to host miniatures games. On a side note, why do you need to play on a 3'x3' space if you don't play in tournaments (just curious)?
@ TopHatGorilla
You make some good points
I cant say that I agree with them
@Veteran Instincts Just wanted to come back and say that I don't really dislike the size of X-wing as it is, even if my first experiences with it had their share of difficulties due to table space. I more wanted to illustrate that I understand why this idea is being put out there in the first place. Like I said in my original post, the idea has merits, but those merits are outweighed by the reality of production costs and the nature of business in general. Shrinking the game down incrementally would be nice until we need separate tournament scenes for each size category, and of course each size category will not be played by everyone who plays x-wing. this means that someone who might've been able to play some games with you, may not be able to because their Tie's are twice the size of yours. As others have suggested, it may be better/more plausible for FFG to do a travel size variant, that has magnetized pieces, and uses less detailed mini's from Armada. Even that feels like a pipe dream though.
If I were making these decisions, with the game as it is now, and I wanted to release an alternate version of the game that reduces it's physical size, my entire focus would be to go digital and release a PC or even mobile game. It's not because I dislike the idea or think fans would reject a physically smaller version of X-wing. I just see too many issues that would potentially split the player base, and result in both games doing worse financially overall, rather than simply letting the game continue as it is currently. A video game version, might not be very exciting of a concept since we have fan made things that accomplish this quite well, but it makes more sense than trying to convince people to buy another collection of spaceships, but now a little smaller.
I have limited table space at home, so I designed a 1/2 scale set to practice with mainly back in first edition (so the mat would be 18" x 18"). I printed it onto paper labels and then stuck the labels onto thicker card board. Maneuver templates, range rulers and ship bases only. Asteroids/debris were best left as cut outs on paper.
It was pretty fiddly.
The ship bases were blank but had arcs on them. They were numbered and color coded for the different factions so I could tell which ship was which since the ship models weren't going on the bases.
I think I may revisit this since we now have medium ships and more markings on the ship bases. This time I think going 3/4 scale might be a better idea. And this time I'll have things custom made out of acrylic. It'll be less of a headache to let a laser do the work!
On 10/31/2018 at 10:16 AM, Veteran Instincts said:FFG should have a X-Wing Micro version with ships scaled to fit on a 24”x 24” table/mat
Thoughts ?
Massively costly with a... tiny benefit. ?
Lock the thread right now, it won't get better than this.
Anyhow, probably it could be done with bases only. Same ships, and pegs, but smaller bases. It'd look goofy, but would probably function. But even if that works, I don't know that it's a great idea. Folks will certainly mix up the asteroids between the two versions. There will be folks who show up at the same gamestores, but have incompatible versions and can't actually play with each other. Maybe some established player moves into a new community, but everyone there plays Micro, and rather than spend the no-doubt large price-tag to convert (for all new ship bases, you'd probably be looking at perhaps $100 for a full collection). Trying to switch between versions would also probably be really hard. Get used to the distance of eyeballing a range in one version, and you'll fail horribly at the other. Folks who try to switch between Attack Wing and X-Wing often really mess up their banks, because there are differences in the length.
Lastly, you don't need 41 inches across. You only need 36. Ship cards and stuffs can be set to the side. One of the FLGS has two kinds of tables, custom wooden jobbies, rather than stock ones from a big-box store. Some are 48x64, full Warhammer size. The others are 36x.... 72? 84? I don't really know. But they're three feet across the short way. Good for MTG players, but functional for X-Wing players too. The game-mat goes right to the edge, but it works.
Solid 36x36 boards to put over the top of a 30x[something] table would overhang some, but probably not really be an issue. Heck, at my other FLGS, we use a pair of 24x48 boards we'll often put over the top of *one* 30x48 table.
There are a lot of options to Tim Gunn the playing area of gamestores which cost a lot less than a separate edition, and which don't split the player base.
