So I am perfectly fine with the narrative concept of a combat round being a variable amount of time (lots of firing = one hit, melee combat includes maneuvering for position, feints, etc). However, I am having a hard time reconciling thrown weapons with their Limited Ammo 1 quality. How does this match up with how normal ranged and melee combat is generally narrated?

Limited Ammo states that it takes a maneuver to "reload" but there are talents that could conceivably change this (such as quick draw).

The only way I can think of to describe thrown weapons currently is that the character is "aiming" the thrown weapon. The issue with this is that aiming is covered in the regular combat rules and takes 1 or 2 additional maneuvers.

Would it be unbalancing to include the first level of the Aim maneuver automatically with Limited Ammo 1 Thrown Weapons by default?

11 hours ago, bitbyter said:

Would it be unbalancing to include the first level of the Aim maneuver automatically with Limited Ammo 1 Thrown Weapons by default?

Yes, I think it would. If you're really desperate to fill in the narrative, you could describe the character waiting for the right moment, moving quickly between cover to avoid getting shot, or possibly returning fire with a blaster right up until the moment they decide to toss a grenade.

12 hours ago, bitbyter said:

Limited Ammo states that it takes a maneuver to "reload" but there are talents that could conceivably change this (such as quick draw).

I don't think that's how Quick Draw works. My understanding is that the maneuver cost of reloading has more to do with the time involved in the process—replacing a blaster pack, swapping out magazines, etc.—than it does with how long it takes to pull that stuff off your belt. However, you might be justified when it comes to grenades and the like, since they're separate items that can be drawn each round, rather than needing to be reloaded.

47 minutes ago, CaptainRaspberry said:

I don't think that's how Quick Draw works.

I'd argue it absolutely applies to Thrown Weapons since the Talent states "an easily accessible weapon or item as an incidental, instead of a manoeuvre". Since Thrown Weapons have Limited Ammo 1, while you aren't really "reloading" them but you are drawing a totally new item/weapon as a manoeuvre.

51 minutes ago, CaptainRaspberry said:

moving quickly between cover to avoid getting shot  , or possibly returning fire with a blaster right up until the moment they decide to toss a grenade.

taking cover is a manoeuvre through and what if the character doesn't currently have a blaster? I am totally willing to use narrative examples but there don't seem to be many options that a) work within the existing combat rules, b) work narratively. Especially if Quick Draw is taken into account.

It seems like Limited Ammo 1 kind of limits the combat narrative by not providing enough "action" in the use of these weapons to account for the general length of a round in the system.

13 hours ago, bitbyter said:

Limited Ammo states that it takes a maneuver to "reload" but there are talents that could conceivably change this (such as quick draw).

Correct. Applying "Limited Ammo" to a grenade is kinda weird, but within the rules it's probably the easiest solution to apply it instead of adding a whole new rule just to explain how you can't "reload" a grenade.

But yes, as you're getting out a whole new grenade and not "reloading" the grenade you just threw, allowing Quickdraw to apply is perfectly reasonable.

13 hours ago, bitbyter said:

The only way I can think of to describe thrown weapons currently is that the character is "aiming" the thrown weapon. The issue with this is that aiming is covered in the regular combat rules and takes 1 or 2 additional maneuvers.

Would it be unbalancing to include the first level of the Aim maneuver automatically with Limited Ammo 1 Thrown Weapons by default?

I'm not really sure what you're having trouble with here.

Is it an actual problem, or just having reconciling how when I shoot my blaster it can be described as a volley of shots, but when you toss a grenade you're only throwing one?

I mean if that's the problem then you just have to accept that time and activity is more about effort and descriptive needs and not actual math and physics. A normal blaster rifle might shoot a few time with one roll, but a Sniper Rifle may shoot only once, and that's ok, it's just a mechanical resolution for the activity.

I mean, by comparison look at something like the Speederbike Chase in RotJ. Default rules and descriptors make it sound like it's 100% impossible to run the activity in that encounter, as vehicles operate at Planetary scale and that doesn't match the action. However if you use all the same rules and just switch to personal scale, it works fine and you can pretty much replicate the scene shot-for-shot in the system.

hmmm, interesting. I hadn't thought of sniper single shots. They are in a similar area conceptually / narratively in my mind now. A little easier to conceptualize though as I imagine it would be pretty rare NOT to take Aim manoeuvres when using a weapon in this fashion.

21 minutes ago, Ghostofman said:

Is it an actual problem, or just having reconciling how when I shoot my blaster it can be described as a volley of shots, but when you toss a grenade you're only throwing one?

and you are exactly right, it is more of a reconciliation issue. Not really a mechanical one. I'm just having a hard time working out how to narrate/describe the mechanics in this case. Most other combat examples I have read for narrating what the character is doing within how the mechanics work and the variable length of "rounds" I am fine with. The Thrown Weapons Limited Ammo 1 narrative weirdness just came to me "in the shower" so to speak and I'm having some trouble resolving the narrative description of it in my head as a GM.

Examples of how you would narrate a character using a Blaster or Melee Weapon to full effect in a round vs. one using Thrown Weapons with Limited Ammo 1 might help me get past this mental "block". There just doesn't seem to be enough involved in using these weapons to narratively "fill" a character's round (without resorting to narratively using other mechanical manoeuvres the character may not be doing).

Yeah, it's just a metal block you need to push though.

One thing I've found helps is to think of this system as a "Movie Simulator" and the GM doing less world simulation and more just figuring out what's on camera at any given moment. The exact duration or quantity of an action is less import than how camera worthy it is.

So like from a movie production perspective you've got a PC in tight, and another PC up on the hill with a sniper rifle. The camera will cut to a shot of the guy in close, he'll let off a burst of fire, and then it cuts to the sniper guy, and he'll shoot his one shot. Both are on camera for literally the exact same amount of time, though one sends more blasts downrange. So a round and a turn can fluctuate in the amount of actual in-universe time it takes up, or the amount of action that takes place in that time.

Likewise think of that Maneuver less as some kind of time consuming special activity and more as something that requires extra effort. When you "take aim" with a sword you might not actually be spending extra time lining up your swordswing, you might just be spending extra brain cells trying to find an opening.

And that's kinda what I was getting at with the Speederbike chase example. Logically they'd use really long distances because of the ground they cover, easily going at least a few kilometers in that one chase scene. But Cinematically, the only distance that matters at all is the distance between the speederbikes themselves. How much ground they actually cover is totally irrelevant, what matters are questions like: "Are they close enough for Luke to jump from one bike to another?" because it's the on-screen action that matters, not the rest of the galaxy.

I actually really like that. I did notice during one of the examples of play I watched on Youtube the GM quite often said things like "the camera pulls in on", "we cut to" or "fade to black", etc. I can see that as working to enforce that stuff can narratively be happening off camera. Along those lines, I've even thought of reading scenes to the players that are purely NPC/Bad Guy scenes as long as they don't give anything away plot-wise. I've already made a habit of refusing to describe anything in real-world distances, always using the range bands to describe distance really helps cuts down on the tactical/simulationist mindset from previous rpg's.

I'm going to do some research on how scenes are actually set up, play out cinematically and change from one character to another to see if I can enforce that feel in the game just by describing things differently.

Thanks for the feedback!!

Something that may help is to not think of them as single throwing daggers or grenades. It's one attack's worth. That might be three or four knives with one or two connecting and it may be a couple of smaller grenades tossed out with one or more being in the right spot. If a single attack can take out multiple minions, then a single attack could account for multiple smaller attacks, even with limited ammo items. I like to think of limited ammo for grenades and thrown weapons as the game's mechanic to say however many it is, you get one attempt to use it unless you have purchased more than one.