There are lots of great Imperial ships right now, and I’ve been looking at various combinations of Soontir, Rexler, Redline, and Whisper. I know they’re all good individually but I’m having trouble deciding which combinations are likely to work best together.

Option 1: Rexler, Whisper, Redline. This has a bare-bones Redline who would probably joust alongside Rexler while being an easier, distracting target, and Whisper would flank.

Rexler Brath + Juke (88)
Whisper + Juke (56)
Redline + Proton Torpedoes (53)
Total: 197

Option 2: Rexler, Redline, Soontir. This way Redline can afford some bombs. With good asteroid placement, Redline can launch Seismic during the initial engagement and not splash herself.

Rexler Brath + Juke (88)
Redline + Proton Torpedoes + Traj Sim + Seismic (59)
Soontir Fel (52)
Total: 199

Option 3: Rexler, Whisper, Soontir. Triple aces. Lots of options in that category and I’m not sure how this set stacks up.

Rexler Brath + Juke (88)
Whisper + Juke (56)
Soontir Fel (52)
Total: 196

Option 4: Redline, Whisper, Soontir, Wampa. Redline and Wampa can engage (with bombs to clear the way), Soontir and Whisper can flank.

Redline + Proton Torpedoes + Traj Sim + Proton Bombs (61)
Whisper + Juke (56)
Soontir Fel (52)
Wampa (30)
Total: 199

There are also options for heavier versions of these ships (Vader and/or Collision Detector on Whisper; AdvSensors, extra ordnance, Ablative, or even Fifth Brother on Redline). Or other aces — Supernatural Vader drops in easily for Rexler. So I’d welcome any suggestions, but in particular if there are any of these lists that seem clearly better than the others.

option 4, more ships is how you win in 2.0 empire, ace pairs suck

I know it's expensive but defenders want advanced sensors, it feel its worth the 8pts. Advanced sensors should probably go up in points.

I've used rexler with juke and advanced sensors and it's fantastic.

But I agree option 4 is best, wampa is great he draws fire.

Problem I'm having with this sort of thing is that it's extremely hard to both avoid heavy fire and put out enough damage early enough to get the advantage.

Redline is some good meat but he's not that difficult to soak up while they box and kill an ace. Rex is the one I'm looking at at the moment to fill the shoot me role, being a monster in the end game makes him difficult to ignore. AdvS on him makes him a really difficult target but it can severely limit his output and therefore sends more heat towards the other 2.

I'm going to attempt Juke Rex, Whisper and Echo for a bit.... Hopefully enough lateral movement to pounce and kill something early, buying space for hit and run.

That Rex/Whis/Fel list looks veeery fun

Avoid traj sim without ablative plating on redline or you will be hitten by your own bombs every time you will launch them.

54 minutes ago, Manolox said:

Avoid traj sim without ablative plating on redline or you will be hitten by your own bombs every time you will launch them.

A 1-straight and then barrel roll gets you clear and still pointed in the same direction, but it's definitely restrictive. It works better with Deathrain where you can roll when dropping the bomb and then clear the stress right away. I agree that Ablative Plating is the better way to do it but I wasn't finding the points for it in these versions.

16 hours ago, Cuz05 said:

Problem I'm having with this sort of thing is that it's extremely hard to both avoid heavy fire and put out enough damage early enough to get the advantage.

Redline is some good meat but he's not that difficult to soak up while they box and kill an ace. Rex is the one I'm looking at at the moment to fill the shoot me role, being a monster in the end game makes him difficult to ignore. AdvS on him makes him a really difficult target but it can severely limit his output and therefore sends more heat towards the other 2.

I'm going to attempt Juke Rex, Whisper and Echo for a bit.... Hopefully enough lateral movement to pounce and kill something early, buying space for hit and run.

I've been concerned about that as well: can I hit hard enough with the rest of the list to punish them for chasing an ace? Redline is great for that, but you're right that she's not enough by herself. I guess there are always bombers, but then it just seems more efficient to go all bombers.

Rexler, Whisper, Echo does sound like a fun list.

All these lists cost too much. You need to get down around 190 or lower to win the initiative bid against other top-tier aces lists.

That said, #4, for all the listed reasons, plus because there's an Initiative 6 ship in it which will dodge enemy I5s even when you lose the bid. I'd even swap Proton Bombs for seismics so you can A) afford Predator on Soontir and B) throw bombs forward with less chance of hurting yourself in some situations.

5 hours ago, kerbarian said:

I've been concerned about that as well: can I hit hard enough with the rest of the list to punish them for chasing an ace? Redline is great for that, but you're right that she's not enough by herself. I guess there are always bombers, but then it just seems more efficient to go all bombers.

Rexler, Whisper, Echo does sound like a fun list.

Tbh, Juke Rex and ProTorp Redline are a serious threat and can certainly punish anything that chases a Fel or Whisper. They can take a beating too. I think I'd just be wary of ending up jousting against the odds with them. Redline can be traded but you'll need Rex to stay fairly healthy. If all guns go on Rex and his dice bum out, you're in a very tough spot.

I'm not sure I'd go Redline and 2 lighter aces. You'd need to be hellishly unpredictable to get away with it and probably relies on moving last.

The idea with Rex, Whisper, Echo is to pounce on sections of the opposing list, with the reduced fire going on Rex. Rex can be traded after that, while the Phantoms duck and dive.

I need a lot of practice with it but I think Echo's movement is the key factor. Whisper is the bait, Echo is the box, Rex shuts the lid. Echo's unpredictability, with Rex's speed, means the box can be set up in surprising places, from unlikely positions.

And they're more than happy shooting 1st.

16 hours ago, Manolox said:

Avoid traj sim without ablative plating on redline or you will be hitten by your own bombs every time you will launch them.

I think a hard turn with a boost clears, but this is also Seismic Charges. Your bomb doesn't explode, but an obstacle at range 1 of the bomb does. If you choose an obstacle that's a little further ahead of your bomb, you'll be safe on a 1-straight.

Nice ideas!

I prefer Redline with Adv Sensors tho. Do things like boost left or right, free target lock then 4K.

Redline, Proton torps, Adv Sensors, Proton Bombs 66pts