12 minutes ago, Ultimatecalibur said:

Well situation might occur where you fail to hit with your Finishing Blow or you opt not to perform a Finishing blow due to it being disadvantageous for some reason. Rising Blade will still auto crit on compromised targets.

If a Finishing Blow triggered by compromising fails and then the target Unmasks they may quickly return to compromised as the amount of strife per round continues to rise each following round.

you would have to sheath your weapon back if you missed your first finishing blow... that is not really clean though.

Toshimoko doesn't approve.

3 hours ago, Avatar111 said:

you would have to sheath your weapon back if you missed your first finishing blow... that is not really clean though.

Toshimoko doesn't approve.

I expect to see a lot of backup weapons getting drawn midway through scenes this edition, if FFG doesn't come up with a rationale (and matching rule) for why this shouldn't happen.

4 hours ago, Avatar111 said:

you would have to sheath your weapon back if you missed your first finishing blow... that is not really clean though.

Toshimoko doesn't approve.

Ukio from Samurai Showdown fights with his sword generally sheathed. I dig it, I’d allow some sort of custom technique to allow that kind of fighting style.

Edit: Ooh and maybe a third that lets you cause minor strife with opportunity by hitting with the reinforced sheath. Since he strikes with it too.

Just spitballing though, I haven’t really thought much past emulating my favorite fighting game character.

1 minute ago, Mark It Zero said:

Ukio from Samurai Showdown fights with his sword generally sheathed. I dig it, I’d allow some sort of custom technique to allow that kind of fighting style.

my comment was more a joke Toshimoko wouldn't approve, not me! (hes all about 1 perfect strike)...

you can sheath your weapon and iaijutsu strike as much as you want. but you probably just prefer to have a second weapon that you keep sheated for those moments (like the wakisashi) you know.. pragmatism.

now, if you want that "cool style' and not just using the rules as I do, sure, use an action or water stance to sheat your katana back.

Custom kata maybe?

Kakita's first stance:

Activation: When you make a martial arts (melee) check using a razor-edged weapon in a one handed grip you may spend opportunity in the following way

*-You may sheathe your weapon after the attack.

Just spitballing, as has been said, Water Stance lets you do it just fine

1 hour ago, Amanda the Panda said:

Custom kata maybe?

Kakita's first stance:

Activation: When you make a martial arts (melee) check using a razor-edged weapon in a one handed grip you may spend opportunity in the following way

*-You may sheathe your weapon after the attack.

Just spitballing, as has been said, Water Stance lets you do it just fine

It’s a good start. If I made a character based around this style I wouldn’t want them bound to water stance, though it’d essentially save them the opportunity cost to use it, which is a nice way to make water enticing to this sort of sword style.

10 hours ago, Mark It Zero said:

It’s a good start. If I made a character based around this style I wouldn’t want them bound to water stance, though it’d essentially save them the opportunity cost to use it, which is a nice way to make water enticing to this sort of sword style.

I think Water is the stance for a Iaijutsu dude that keeps resheathing his katana. It feels very flowy, and anything flowy in combat should reflect a Water stance approach I think. Also, I like the kata, though I would make it a Ronin tech rather than a Kakita as it is more fitting to the fluff something unorthodox to be adopted by ronin rather than Great Clan samurai. Unless your fluff has this ability to be widespread and traditional with the Kakita, which is also fine I guess.

1 hour ago, omnicrone said:

I think Water is the stance for a Iaijutsu dude that keeps resheathing his katana. It feels very flowy, and anything flowy in combat should reflect a Water stance approach I think. Also, I like the kata, though I would make it a Ronin tech rather than a Kakita as it is more fitting to the fluff something unorthodox to be adopted by ronin rather than Great Clan samurai. Unless your fluff has this ability to be widespread and traditional with the Kakita, which is also fine I guess.

I’m likely testing it very soon with my roommate’s peasant Ronin school! That and my own tweaks to CSS with a peasant Shinobi clan. Sort of our own home brew story about a secret organization that does what little it can to protect the working classes.

I have read through the thread a few days ago, so I hope I’m not going to simply answer to a solved problem.

Both Crossing Cut and Rising Blade are useful in Duels!

The beginning distance is 2 … I have not found anything that suggests Range Bands are completely ignored in Duels.

So since CC works in Range 2-3 you can use it as long as your opponent hasn’t moved towards you, after that you are stuck to RB.

I like the idea that you need to work to get the possibility for a Finishing Blow. So a duel is supposed to last longer than only one round.

The fact that neither CC nor RB can use opportunities to let you crit seems to be no real problem to me: you only can use them with a sheathed razor-blade weapon. Any attack with these weapons have the possibility to spend opps to increase the Deadlyness which is the base for damage dealt for CC and RB!

So you might be able to increase your damage high enough to crit with that hit. The earth stance can’t prevent you from doing that since you are not spending opps to inflict a crit directly!

Just my two thoughts for my first post here…

Page 260, Movement and Range.

"During the duel, each character is considered to be in range of any effect their opponent resolves."

But yes, Crossing Blade from a Fire Stance is a veritable nuke - every single result other than "blank" can be kept to increase dealt damage: success because bonus success = more damage, opportunity because more deadliness = more damage, and strife because Fire Stance makes them contribute towards bonus successes, which = more damage.

4 hours ago, Isawa Fuyuma said:

I have read through the thread a few days ago, so I hope I’m not going to simply answer to a solved problem.

Both Crossing Cut and Rising Blade are useful in Duels!

The beginning distance is 2 … I have not found anything that suggests Range Bands are completely ignored in Duels.

So since CC works in Range 2-3 you can use it as long as your opponent hasn’t moved towards you, after that you are stuck to RB.

I like the idea that you need to work to get the possibility for a Finishing Blow. So a duel is supposed to last longer than only one round.

The fact that neither CC nor RB can use opportunities to let you crit seems to be no real problem to me: you only can use them with a sheathed razor-blade weapon. Any attack with these weapons have the possibility to spend opps to increase the Deadlyness which is the base for damage dealt for CC and RB!

So you might be able to increase your damage high enough to crit with that hit. The earth stance can’t prevent you from doing that since you are not spending opps to inflict a crit directly!

Just my two thoughts for my first post here…

the distance in duel is specifically stated to be a non-concern. if it was, I could duel with a naginata and use iron forest style?

the only reason you need to "work" to get a finishing blow is because everybody will turtle up in earth stance and be immune to crits.

how are you "increasing your damage high enough to crit?" basically, you need to incapacitate the opponent first, then crit him while he is incapacitated.

so all in all, it comes down to what people were saying; duels are about incapacitating the opponent. that is the best way to win a duel to "first strike" (unless you have heartpiercing strike technique or what not). if none of the duelist are able to incapacitate the opponent, then it becomes a composure test.

since earth gives both endurance and composure and make you immune to critical, it is by far the best ring for a "first strike" duel.

2 hours ago, WHW said:

Page 260, Movement and Range.

"During the duel, each character is considered to be in range of any effect their opponent resolves."

But yes, Crossing Blade from a Fire Stance is a veritable nuke - every single result other than "blank" can be kept to increase dealt damage: success because bonus success = more damage, opportunity because more deadliness = more damage, and strife because Fire Stance makes them contribute towards bonus successes, which = more damage.

doesn't really make you crit.. it can't , but is a really strong technique to incapacitate the opponent as fast as possible. which is how you win duel in a world where earth stance exists.

The official Errata gives Rising Blade a tiny bit more use as a finishing blow.

The TN of rising blade is equal to the targets vigilance. A Compromised Target is always vigilance 1. This means it is easier to hit with Rising Blade than it is Crossing Blade or a standard Strike

Well the errata for Rising Blade now makes it terrifying in duels or in other case when the target is compromised. As a TN 1 attack you can then use the rest of your keeps for Razor-Edged deadliness+ opps.

2 minutes ago, Ultimatecalibur said:

Well the errata for Rising Blade now makes it terrifying in duels or in other case when the target is compromised. As a TN 1 attack you can then use the rest of your keeps from Razor-Edged deadliness+ opps.

Plus double deadliness from the finishing blow. OUCH

If it is a duel to the death, never, ever, compromise vs that Kakita (unless you are a Hida)

Just now, omnicrone said:

Plus double deadliness from the finishing blow. OUCH

If it is a duel to the death, never, ever, compromise vs that Kakita (unless you are a Hida)

Even then the Hida is mostly negating the school's crit boost.

6 minutes ago, Ultimatecalibur said:

Well the errata for Rising Blade now makes it terrifying in duels or in other case when the target is compromised. As a TN 1 attack you can then use the rest of your keeps for Razor-Edged deadliness+ opps.

its basically 1TN less than Crossing Cut, so yeah, better... but marginally.

1 minute ago, Ultimatecalibur said:

Even then the Hida is mostly negating the school's crit boost.

Hida have lots of earth and water, he wins most duels anyway.

6 hours ago, WHW said:

Page 260, Movement and Range.

"During the duel, each character is considered to be in range of any effect their opponent resolves."

Oh, I missed that.

38 minutes ago, Avatar111 said:

Hida have lots of earth and water, he wins most duels anyway.

That does only mean that you can't beat every foe with the same tactic. It's like playing Rock-Paper-Scissors: sometimes you win with Rock, sometimes you lose (and should have taken scissors).

Just now, Isawa Fuyuma said:

That does only mean that you can't beat every foe with the same tactic. It's like playing Rock-Paper-Scissors: sometimes you win with Rock, sometimes you lose (and should have taken scissors).

i think you need a lesson in duels to First Strike.

basically: you play EARTH, otherwise you get crit and you lose.

bonus point if you are Hiruma Scout and can change your stance after attacking.

1 minute ago, Avatar111 said:

i think you need a lesson in duels to First Strike.

basically: you play EARTH, otherwise you get crit and you lose.

bonus point if you are Hiruma Scout and can change your stance after attacking.

46 minutes ago, Avatar111 said:

Hida have lots of earth and water, he wins most duels anyway.

Hida sitting in earth stance could easily get hit by a Kakita 3 times for the Hida's one. That is if he doesn't unmask first, even with his impressive composure.

Hida has to spend the first turn drawing his weapon. Kakita can be in whatever stance he likes, to dump damage on the Hida. Next turn Kakita is in earth, and drops a single ring dice, a worthwhile trade off for not losing there and then. Unless the Hida bids a lot of Strife (Probably 3) he is getting hit again before he hits the kakita.

Turn three, same story. Can the Hida tank 3 hits from the Kakita before he goes down? Considering they likely have the same endurance?

3 minutes ago, Amanda the Panda said:

Hida sitting in earth stance could easily get hit by a Kakita 3 times for the Hida's one. That is if he doesn't unmask first, even with his impressive composure.

Hida has to spend the first turn drawing his weapon. Kakita can be in whatever stance he likes, to dump damage on the Hida. Next turn Kakita is in earth, and drops a single ring dice, a worthwhile trade off for not losing there and then. Unless the Hida bids a lot of Strife (Probably 3) he is getting hit again before he hits the kakita.

Turn three, same story. Can the Hida tank 3 hits from the Kakita before he goes down? Considering they likely have the same endurance?

Hida bought a iaijutsu technique. come on. hes not stupid.

edit: when I say "hida" i don't mean "hida". I mean EARTH ring. Hiruma is actually better than Hida for duels

4 minutes ago, Avatar111 said:

Hida bought a iaijutsu technique. come on. hes not stupid.

By the time the Hida can buy an Iaijutsu technique, this is irrelevant, as we can buy what we like.

I can counter with - The Kakita bought some Water, he is not stupid.

EDIT: In response to your edit, I agree - As stance is such an important factor in duels I might even go so far as to say that the Hiruma is the best duelist in the game

3 minutes ago, Amanda the Panda said:

By the time the Hida can buy an Iaijutsu technique, this is irrelevant, as we can buy what we like.

I can counter with - The Kakita bought some Water, he is not stupid.

not water... EARTH !!

all i'm saying is basically Air ring is bad for duels (generally bad overall). If you Build your Kakita Earth it is all good! he can win as much as others. But you are forced to have Air 3 to start... which is just a bad start.

the problem basically boils down to earth stance being busted in duels (first strike duels). everything else is just gravy around the main "issue".

Just now, Avatar111 said:

not water... EARTH !!

all i'm saying is basically Air ring is bad for duels (generally bad overall). If you Build your Kakita Earth it is all good! he can win as much as others. But you are forced to have Air 3 to start... which is just a bad start.

Air is not the best combat ring, I agree. It does boost focus though, which is an important part of hitting someone more times than they hit you