“Echo” (50)
Juke (4)
Darth Vader (14)
Hull Upgrade (5)

“Whisper” (52)
Juke (4)
Fire-Control System (3)
Director Krennic (5)

“Deathrain” (42)
Trajectory Simulator (3)
Barrage Rockets (6)
Seismic Charges (3)
Proximity Mines (6)
Hull Upgrade (3)

Total: 200

View in Yet Another Squad Builder 2.0

Planning a store tournie this weekend, haven't had time to practice any list at all but had an idea for a list like this. Thought and critique?

The goal is for OptProt to go on echo. Whisper fires first and use fcs to have some attack mod, hopefully hitting and fueling her ability. Then echo can use the same lock to get a mod for her eyeballs. Deathrain serves as a battering ram/distraction for those first round, where he tries to damage everyone and block certain corridor with mines, hopefully setting up the late game for echo and whisper tag team.

I'd use protons rather than proxies on Death. Other than that, it looks fantastic!!

I'm not really convinced on Optimized Prototype for Phantoms. Finding the spare actions to take target locks is tough. Consider, however, that Collision Detector and 0-0-0 on Whisper is the same cost.

That'd be pretty solid, since you've got Vader in there. Likewise, I'd rather take Collision Detector than Hull Upgrade on Echo. Being able to decloak over obstacles opens up a lot of nice positioning options; I've loved ColDet every time I've flown it on Phantoms. Meanwhile, 0-0-0 is really solid crew, if you already have Vader in the list. Vader and 0-0-0 could easily be swapped between Echo and Whisper, depending on how much you think either will get to range 1.

I'd also go for Proton > Proximity on Deathrain, and might consider cutting the Hull Upgrade for bid. Depends on your own local scene. However, I tend to find Phantoms don't care too much whether they go first or second. Attack first and you can Juke without worrying about your Evade token. Move second and you can arc dodge better. It kinda works either way.

I'll also add: Deathrain in particular probably likes Ablative Plating more than Hull or Shield Upgrade. Since any straight move will lead a Punisher into the explosion of a launched Proton Bomb (and often a Seismic Charge explosion), Ablative is often two health saved rather than just one with Hull Upgrade.

The way I'd tweak it to fit my own playstyle:

• Echo (Juke, Vader, Collision Detector)
• Whisper (Juke, 0-0-0, Collision Detector)
• Deathrain (Barrage Rockets, TrajSim, Proton Bombs, Seismic Charges, Ablative Plating)

@theBitterFig hum, I can see why you would prefer collision detector on a phantom to a hull upgrade, but personally, flying echo (a lot!) i've never had trouble decloaking since she has so many options of where to go. However, I think that whisper would probably like it a lot to not be stuck between a ship and a rock and force to not cloak and/or not decloak.
For krennic on whisper, my understanding was that TL was better than focus for whisper, because any offensive bonus is also a defensive bonus with her ability (since if I hit I get a free evade token). Because of that, plus juke, I though I could consistently take TL as an action without worrying too much, and still get 2 evade. On 2 dice, I don't think you need more than that anyway. OptProt is just gravy on top. I don't know if 0-0-0 would give me much more benefit than a TL since people will always just let me get a calculate, except if the other player is already planning on doing a blue maneuver.

But now I am torn between proton torps or proximity mine. Since deathrain is not exactly top initiative, I thought taking the focus action for barrage would be the easier move, but everyone seems to swear only by proton torps :P. That is certainly making me reconsider...

If you keep FCS on Whis it makes your choices much easier

Woah woah woah no

Proton BOMBS

Not torps

9 hours ago, DarthSempai said:

@theBitterFig hum, I can see why you would prefer collision detector on a phantom to a hull upgrade, but personally, flying echo (a lot!) i've never had trouble decloaking since she has so many options of where to go. However, I think that whisper would probably like it a lot to not be stuck between a ship and a rock and force to not cloak and/or not decloak.
For krennic on whisper, my understanding was that TL was better than focus for whisper, because any offensive bonus is also a defensive bonus with her ability (since if I hit I get a free evade token). Because of that, plus juke, I though I could consistently take TL as an action without worrying too much, and still get 2 evade. On 2 dice, I don't think you need more than that anyway. OptProt is just gravy on top. I don't know if 0-0-0 would give me much more benefit than a TL since people will always just let me get a calculate, except if the other player is already planning on doing a blue maneuver.

But now I am torn between proton torps or proximity mine. Since deathrain is not exactly top initiative, I thought taking the focus action for barrage would be the easier move, but everyone seems to swear only by proton torps :P. That is certainly making me reconsider...

Collision Detector, IMHO, is as much about opening up options as it is about covering mistakes. With good play, neither will probably run into problems with decloaking over obstacles. However, there are places a ColDet Phantom can get that others can't. Intentionally putting yourself on a rock is something most ships can't do, and so most opponents won't be great at planning around. Barrel Roll Decloak directly onto a rock (forward bendy Echo decloak?), then 1-hard back in, and you're probably where an opponent didn't think you'd be.

Locks and Focus are essentially identical in terms of offensive power in a single turn. Fire Control System makes it easier to keep a lock for next turn, while focus always disappear. So on the second turn, a Lock can start to provide more value than a focus, but only if you're shooting at the same ship. I just prefer the safety of having a focus token which can be spent to modify green dice if I don't need it to attack, and for the general flexibility of not having to pick a target too early. OptProt only works on someone Whisper has locked, so both your ships have to be attacking the same target for it to work. It just feels like a fragile synergy. Personally, with Vader already in the list, I'd just build it different. But if we all built the same lists, the game would be boring.

0-0-0 is still getting you calculate tokens. That's not too bad for only 3 points. On 2 green dice, you'll roll only 1 eye most of the time. Meanwhile, it can be used offensively. Barrel Roll Whisper out of arc, and either your opponent is stressed (knowing they planned on taking a Blue move is still a bit of an advantage), or you'll have a Calculate token to help your Juke attack. Trip is a great crew, and a huge number of Scum lists run him, because even though your opponent gets some choice, he's still either token stacking or stress dealing for a mere 3 points.

//

Yeah, I also meant proton bomb. It probably isn't terrible to try to use Deathrain with Proton Torpedoes, but Barrage/Proton Bomb/Seismic Charges is a strong load-out with fewer risks.

Ahh yes, my bad, proton BOMBS! The one point fewer is attractive, as is the capability to be reloaded, but I thought that proximity mine would maybe open up a few different strategy, namely to block certain corridors between rocks, while still keeping the possibility to reload a seismic to fuel his ability. Is the possibility to launch a proton bombs that much better? Maybe as a hard counter to swarm?

yup. Way better can still block a corridor

Allright, I'll start by swapping proximity for proton, and with that extra point go for ablative over hull upgrade, and try it out with krennic on whisper tonight. If I realise it much too hard to keep the target and it's not worth it, then i'll swap for 0-0-0! Thanks all!

I don't know if you can launch proxy mines... deathrain's card only talks about bombs

8 hours ago, Manolox said:

I don't know if you can launch proxy mines... deathrain's card only talks about bombs

Trajectory Simulator is [currently] the only way Deathrain can launch any kind of devices, and Trajectory Simulator specifically only works on bombs--not mines--in the Systems Phase.