Hey guys,

So I've played a few games with Soontir, with a pretty sizable bid. My two other ships are Redline and Whisper. I really like the list.

My question is, what Talents have you found go well on him? I initially ran him with Predator, but found the bullseye too finnicky, and moved on to Outmaneuver, which I have really liked. It seems to really help his offense, even if he needed to double reposition.

BUT, there are other talents. Sooo, what do you think? What have you found helpful? I see these as our options:

1. Marksmanship (Dirt cheap, works with bullseye. Helps with crits but not actually getting damage through

2. Predator (For 1 more point, a mild boost to offense when you can pull the bullseye off)

3. Daredevil (sort of gives Soontir a Talon roll)

4. Juke (Soontir has an action to give, so getting an Evade and then Juking is a nice boost to offense)

4. Lone Wolf (When traveling alone, nice boost to offense AND defense, which is huge for him)

6. Outmaneuver (Nice reward for playing Soontir as you should. Feels like playing Wedge in an Interceptor)

Thoughts? Did I miss one?

As the resident Soontir enthusiast, I prefer to run him as a pocket ace at 54 points with just Predator. If I go all out with him as my hyper-ace, he gets outmaneuver and a shield upgrade (and sometimes, but rarely, afterburners.)

Lone wolf is too situational for me, I personally dislike daredevil, and Juke feels better on a ship that ALWAYS evades, not just sometimes, but thats just my opinion. Marksmanship doesn't really do anything for Fel, as he will shoot first, normally into shields, so the crit conversion is a waste early; and later he should be going for killshots, so again, the extra crit is meaningless.

Just predator.

He needs the offensive help and it's cheap.

Juke is to inconsistent with him, I almost never evade, it's usually better to just double reposition get out of arcs and grab the bullseye.

Outmaneuver is probably good as well, but predator is much cheaper.

The best thing about keeping Soontir cheap is that he isn’t worth the time it takes to recoup the 54 points he is worth. “Hopefully” the rest of your list is punishing theirs if they focus on Soontir.

Composure is neat on squints. It gives you some insurance against those risky repositioning moves that might not fit, not fitting, especially when you note that you can autothrust off the free focus action.

I've only played Predator on him, which I like very much - it keeps him cheap, and like @Archangelspiv said, he's good cheap. It's also the only way for him to deal with blanks on attack dice, and you're aiming for bullseye anyway with his special ability.

I've meant to toy with Outmanouver, but can't seem to find the points in any list with Soontir (as he really needs a sizeable bid to boot).

As others have said, Predator is your best bet. It keeps him cheap, and he should get a couple triggers out of it a game if flown well.

Lone Wolf is also good on Soontir, but it's best when Soontir only has 2 other squad mates.

Ruthless is the final Talent I've tried, but this one was specific to my Sloane list. I'm not sure if it works in any other list, as Predator/LW are probably better in general.

Either nothing or just Predator to keep it cheap is probably the best call isolated.

But Juke gets exponentially better when you have more of it. When combined with another ship with Juke (Whisper), i like find the points for another one on Soontir. If I aslo have a shuttle to coordinate, the second juke is high on my list of priorities.

Predator is bad on almost anything, I've gone from putting it on a lot to never ever equipping it.

I think Outmaneuver is probably the only one I'd really want to put on him but it adds too much cost. Ruthless might be a good shout for its cost, for when it really matters to push a crit through green dice.

I've run him a lot with Predator, and like it, but if you don't want to try and go for Bullseye all that much, but still want him to be cheap, Crack Shot is good. It still requires Bullseye, but it's a one-time thing and super cheap.

9 hours ago, SirCormac said:

Hey guys,

So I've played a few games with Soontir, with a pretty sizable bid. My two other ships are Redline and Whisper. I really like the list.

My question is, what Talents have you found go well on him? I initially ran him with Predator, but found the bullseye too finnicky, and moved on to Outmaneuver, which I have really liked. It seems to really help his offense, even if he needed to double reposition.

BUT, there are other talents. Sooo, what do you think? What have you found helpful? I see these as our options:

1. Marksmanship (Dirt cheap, works with bullseye. Helps with crits but not actually getting damage through

2. Predator (For 1 more point, a mild boost to offense when you can pull the bullseye off)

3. Daredevil (sort of gives Soontir a Talon roll)

4. Juke (Soontir has an action to give, so getting an Evade and then Juking is a nice boost to offense)

4. Lone Wolf (When traveling alone, nice boost to offense AND defense, which is huge for him)

6. Outmaneuver (Nice reward for playing Soontir as you should. Feels like playing Wedge in an Interceptor)

Thoughts? Did I miss one?

If he's flying with Sai, Juke is a great EPT. You can easily end up with an evade, two focus, and a reposition. If you have a reasonable bid, theres no reason you shouldn't be lining up that bullseye nearly every round. Also, having I6 means that you're almost always free to spend that evade as soon as you need to because you've already shot/juked.

I've been running him naked which has still worked well for the list. I like Outmaneuver if he's to be used as a proper flanker and not just something to draw enemy fire (he does that remarkably well - pulls attention like crazy). Finally, and probably my favorite talent for him, is Swarm Tactics. The only thing scarier than one 3 dice attack at In6 is two 3 dice attacks at In6. Or more if you chain it down the line.

Predator is pretty good for him, but lone wolf offers more versatility and survivability for only 2 pts more.

36 minutes ago, Bad Idea Comics said:

I've been running him naked which has still worked well for the list. I like Outmaneuver if he's to be used as a proper flanker and not just something to draw enemy fire (he does that remarkably well - pulls attention like crazy). Finally, and probably my favorite talent for him, is Swarm Tactics. The only thing scarier than one 3 dice attack at In6 is two 3 dice attacks at In6. Or more if you chain it down the line.

I thought we decided that Swarm Tactics doesn't chain?

6 minutes ago, JasonCole said:

I thought we decided that Swarm Tactics doesn't chain?

Nope. The opposite.

It definitely does chain. But you can't use it to chain Roark's i7 as you could in 1e.

2 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

Nope. The opposite.

It definitely does chain. But you can't use it to chain Roark's i7 as you could in 1e.

Gotcha, that's probably what I was thinking about.

Thanks for all of the replies! I found in my list, people tend to go for Soontir last, which allows for Outmaneuver. I have Redline and Whisper with Vader crew, and people hate them. I also found that alot of the times when I arc-dodge, I don't actually get bullseye, even at Range 1, so getting the bonus of Outmaneuver is really nice. Even with it, I have an 11 point bid, which is fine locally (but people are starting to catch on to my bid). I may need to move to Predator to get a bigger bid.

I guess this raises a second question: What do you guys feel is a good bid for Soontir? As I said, mine right now is 11.

Missed opportunity to call this thread "Soontir Talent Show."

But in answer to your last question, I don't feel the need to bid with Soontir unless I also have I5's that really want to move last/activate first. I'd rather move last to outposition opponents, and shoot last so I know whether I need tokens for defense before spending for offense. But if Soontir has to move first he's a crazy good blocker, and if he shoots first I'll just deal with it. I think other abilities (like Han Gunner's trigger) need more of a bid than the good Baron.

Predator, unless you're intentionally trying to stack points on him.

Predator should be triggering almost every round if flown properly and is a gigantic boost to your offensive output. Outmaneuver is nice but deals less well with multi-arced ships and is significantly more expensive.

1 hour ago, SirCormac said:

Thanks for all of the replies! I found in my list, people tend to go for Soontir last, which allows for Outmaneuver. I have Redline and Whisper with Vader crew, and people hate them. I also found that alot of the times when I arc-dodge, I don't actually get bullseye, even at Range 1, so getting the bonus of Outmaneuver is really nice. Even with it, I have an 11 point bid, which is fine locally (but people are starting to catch on to my bid). I may need to move to Predator to get a bigger bid.

Or, you can go the opposite route. If everyone is bidding then fly into them and shoot first. This is what I've been doing with my Soontir list. I'm content to clean one target's clock then move onto the next one. You can even add more upgrades. Give Fel a Stealth Device with a 3pt bid, or use those 3pts elsewhere. I find it odd that upgrades on Fel are deemed too expensive and then massive bids are made just to move last. Wouldn't you rather beef up your ships to work in any circumstance?

JUKE

Soontir with evade only, no focus, 3 attack die vs:

2 agility w/ no focus = 1.377 expected hits (2.112 with focus from bullseye)

2 agility w/ focus = .553 expected hits (1.074 with focus from bullseye)

OUTMANEUVER

Soontir with no focus, 3 attack die vs:

1 agility (down from 2) w/ no focus = 1.172 expected hits (1.881 with focus from bullseye)

1 agility (down from 2) w/ focus = .953 expected hits (1.63 with focus from bullseye)

LONE WOLF

Soontir, no focus, 3 attack die vs:

2 agility w/ no focus = 1.270 expected hits (1.943 with focus attack)

2 agility w/ focus = .863 expected hits (1.453 with focus attack)

Obviously Juke hits harder than outmaneuver when the opponent does not have a focus, like when Boba Fett boosting, etc. Side benefits of Juke is it can force an opponent to spend a focus, increasing the damage output of the rest of the squad. Whisper w/ Juke hits harder as a result of Soontir's Juke being active. Redlines torpedos can hit harder. Darth Vader crew on Whisper can synergize with Juke to make Soontir hit harder.

All this comes back into how often are you only doing a single reposition?

LW and Outmaneuver can trigger with double reposition. Lone Wolf is better than Outmaneuver as long as you keep it active, with the benefit of defense mods as well. In a 3 ship list, where Soontir is the third biggest threat, LW can be huge in the late game.

My vote is for Lone Wolf or else run Soontir in his birthday suit.

Well done @wurms , and others. I love Soontir, but haven't sported him in 2.0 as I am moving slow due to monetary and time constraints. I love the list structure @SirCormac as Whisper and Redline (I'd love to know your build-out on the other two.

Uneducated I admit, but from the peanut gallery, I do like Lone Wolf as I've run it on him lots in 1.0 and the wording/price looks good in 2.0.

6 hours ago, clanofwolves said:

Well done @wurms , and others. I love Soontir, but haven't sported him in 2.0 as I am moving slow due to monetary and time constraints. I love the list structure @SirCormac as Whisper and Redline (I'd love to know your build-out on the other two.

Uneducated I admit, but from the peanut gallery, I do like Lone Wolf as I've run it on him lots in 1.0 and the wording/price looks good in 2.0.

My list is pretty straight forward: Redline with ProTorps, TrajSim, ProBombs. Whisper with Juke and Vader. Soontir with Outmanuever. People tend to feel the need to kill Redline quick, which gives Soontir and Soontir some early breathing room. After that, what's left tends to try to kill Whisper, which is tough.

17 minutes ago, SirCormac said:

Soontir and Soontir

Sounds like an 80s detective show ?