I am playing a Troll Slayer in our current campaign and am looking for advice on where to go for my next career? The obvious choice is Giant Slayer but that is essentially Troll Slayer 2.0 and requires killing a Troll (gflwt).

originally picked the Troll Slayer for a simple combat character while learning the rules and he's rapidly becoming dull (Double Strike, repeat ad nauseum). Also the massive 1 defense and 1 soak suck hard, requiring extended rest after each battle just to recover all the wounds and criticals since I'm the front line in combat (Gray wizard and Thief not so good in melee).

This is always the issue I've had in all versions of WFRP... Once you are a Troll Slayer there is, according to the fluff, only two ways to progress... You die or you keep challenging and killing bigger things.

I guess you could very easily just mod your Warhammer world to allow for slayers to have their oath fulfilled in some way other than death.

You could sidestep into Agent or Burgher if you fancied a change or pace that is not so totally fighty.

Or if your GM agrees you could move from Slayer to Zealot... I like the idea of a Slayer who has realised his oath is based on lies going slightly insane...

wyrdhunter said:

A troll slayer is expected to die in a fight with a troll, so there actually no "exit career" let the player choose somthing that fits, "Invalid Insane" or another career.

The fun of playing a troll slayer is that you know you're going to die... it's just a matter of making it look good. If you build your troll slayer with damage output and no armor in mind you can also create a really fearsome fighter that can also withstand punishment just as well as anyone wearing less than full plate.

There are some really nice slayer cards and as I GM I have actually ruled that any card with the slayer trait can only be used by slayers.

there are a reaction action card and a tactic talent that ignore damage or may get your soak higher. You may also improve it by getting higher in Toughness, which is a Slayer primary characteristic.

Our slayer did that.

The purpose of the Slayer is to die in combat to atone for his sins. There is no exit from being a Slayer aside from death.

If you're bored with the character, go fight the troll, die and move on to a character that can fulfill your advancement expectations. It's as simple as that.

Just repeat the Troll Slayer card. Troll Slayer II if you will.

Have him go into Zealot or whatever: the one that gives you an insanity!

It's like, he takes a pause and becomes devotely religious: fanatically so. I'd say that's fitting.

I think you might get some more enjoyment from him if you change his tactics slightly...

On the one hand you say he's dull because he constantly uses double strike and then you also say that the low defence/soak is also a problem. Trying looknig into developing some other actions that can be used to increase his defence values rather than just using double strike all the time.

Don't have books with me, but does the Slayers avoidance of armour extend to using shields? If not, look at some of the shield specific actions and look to getting him a shield, increasing your defence/soak into the bargain.

I agree with others than as far as fluff is concerned, there is only death, but Zealot makes for a sensible side step that isn't completely at odds with the fluff.

The exit to Troll Slayer is Giant Slayer.

Imo the prohibition on armour should extend to shields (assuming this isn't already RAW). Using a shield would make the armour prohibition a nonsense.

1) Shrug It Off : Support action card to get a temporary higher soak.

2) Made of Iron (not so sure that's the one) : Tactic talent card to ignore part of damage or something like that.

3) Troll Slayer Abilitie : you get 1 defense and soak 1+1 per slayer career. So if you complete troll slayer, buy the dedication bonus and then go Giant Slayer, your soak bonus gain +1.

4) DIE ! Slayer are damned dwarves, considered dead for others, only accepted at the Slayer Fortress. You HAVE to die gloriously to earn your chair at Grungni's table.

Troll slayer- giant slayer - demon slayer - death. Rank depending on what top nasties you slay.
Rerun Slayer careers once you run out of them - or organize a grand doom for him. (you were planning that for him already weren't you?)

However.... You could allow him to take up another career to represent what he isa actually doing whilst he seeks his doom.
E.g. Gotrek hs worked as a Sewer jack, tomb raider, caravan guard etc. at various stages of his journey. He was and is a Slayer, he just picked up some bits of various careers along the way.

Would need to fit in though - no running off to become a priest of Shallya for instance.
Though he might pick up something like miner or engineer.

His true goal though is to die in battle, so he needs to keep in mind that these are not real careers as others would have, just pay the rent tide me over jobs.
If he forgets that give him a reminder. The Gotrek books are full of other slayers popping up for a bit and successfully meeting their doom.

Remember though it must be a grand doom worthy of the name - going down in a sea of orcs wildly swinging the dead orc chieftans head as a weapon etc.

I like Stuntie's idea of branching out, but I don't necessarily think you need to make as radical a depature as was proposed (I've never read any of the Gotrek novels, so perhaps what you were proposing wasn't radical?).

Thug, Mercenary or Pitfighter are all careers that could easily represent your Troll Slayer's "side job" while looking for bigger challenges to face, without having to alter the character concept much. Thug, in particular, uses 2 tactics talents, so you won't find yourself investing in anything you'll regret later. You could move into any of those three for a rank or two, and then come back to Giant Slayer after you feel tough enough to kill the requisite monster.

The Zealot suggestion is also a great one, and very flavorful. Since it doesn't list Dwarf on it, though, you may have to talk your GM into it. For what it's worth, if you were playing in my campaign, I'd say yes. Unhinged crazy Troll-Slayer sounds great to me.

Of course, what career to go into is only half the problem. The other half is that you've got Double Strike, and don't feel compelled to pick up any other actions. As many on this forum have noted, Double Strike seems a bit... overly good. Bordering on broken. If it only had a recharge rate, you'd have some motivation to mix up your actions a bit more, but as-is it's so good you don't need another action. Which makes it not just borderline broken, but also boring. I'm afraid I don't have any good advice here, but at least your suffering has served as a warning to others that we may need to preemptively house-rule it. If your GM is cool, he or she might be willing to house-rule it, and give you a bonus XP (or other reward) for bringing to their attention? Just a thought.

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You also mentioned that you take a lot of hits, and don't like how much you need to patch up after fights. Here's a few cards worth looking at to help with that:

• Talents: "Catlike Reflexes" and "Roll With It". The former can boost dodges, the later boosts soak. If it's mostly ranged shots that mess you up, then you might look at "Untouchable".
• Actions: "Improved Parry" and "Improved Dodge". If you took Thug as your next career, you could train Guile and Skullduggery, and then buy "Dirty Tricks" to have effectively one more active defence available.

Keep foremost in your mind that a Slayer has done something (or not done something they should have done) that has caused immense shame upon him. Typically, the normal way to expatiate that shameful debt is through death fighting a great monster. However, that is not the only way. Now, it should not be easy, but the GM could design an adventure around removing your debt/shame depending on what it is.

For example, the demo adventure Trollslayer failed to protect his family. Perhaps saving a dwarfhold/settlement would redeem him in the eyes of himself, his clan, and his ancestors, and allow him to remove the Slayer career. Again, not easy, but makes for an interesting adventure(s) with a goal in mind. Should the Slayer succeed and live, his shame is expunged and he can renew his life in dwarven society.

So, assuming you want to exit the Slayer career progression, I would discuss your background with your GM to see if there is the possibility of removing your shame (without dying). If not, I'd just suggest either making a new PC, or just spend your advances on non-career advances to round out your PC.

By the way, no one is forcing you to spam Double Strike. You can always choose new and interesting melee actions and use those instead, as a choice. Personally, as a GM I ruled Double Strike has a recharge of 2 like most other non-basic attacks, so it can't be spammed (per se, only used every other round anyway).

refering to the background : Troll Slayer is dead for the dwarf society, even the army that he can't join, except on a troop only composed of slayers. He MUST join Grungni at the ancestor's table through a great fight against a huge creature that he will someday fail.

willmanx said:

Thats right.

Choosing a Slayer career is a death sentence. You can not redeem your shame by anything other than a glorious death.
Saving a hold is all well and good - but unless you died doing it then you have not succeeded as a Slayer.

Gotrek for instance has saved the remnants of a hold. And done other heroics that would make him a hero amongst any race. But he is still a Slayer and still seeking his doom.

Stuntie said:

He also occasionally seeks other employment: He's worked as a Mercenary and a Sewer jack at least, and their is probably also a decent argument for explorer.

jadrax said:

True, you could always add on other careers in order to advance. The trick is that you still would have to adhere to all the rules of a Trollslayer, such as wearing no armor, and seeking a mighty doom. As long as a player still plays like a Slayer, I allow any other career to be taken, instead of just jumping to Giantslayer.

Rip the Double Strike card in half. Throw it in the trash. :]

<shrug> As a GM, I'd allow for atonement for your shame besides death (depending on why you became a slayer). I'm not saying to make it easy, but it can be done IMO. Not knowing what caused Gotrek to become a slayer, I cannot say what might be a reasonable way for him to redeem himself. It's possible his particular shame is so bad it can't be done.

The slayer in the demo adventure, for example, merely failed to properly protect his family (wife and child, IIRC) and required the assistance of a human roadwarden (the roadwarden PC's father).

So, the salvation of a dwarf hold from a similar (and overwhelming) enemy, might be similar enough circumstance to atone for his failure in this case. A slayer's whose shame resulted in the destruction of his home city, for example, will have a much harder (perhaps impossible) time atoning. Of course, *how* the hold is saved matters to. It must be very personalized to the Slayer and his shame. I mean, the Slayer couldn't just hire an army of mercenaries and let them fight. However, the Slayer personally organizing the town's defenses, then leading a charge, fighting his way through to the boss, challenging the boss to single combat and killing him, etc. would be better.

Yes, Slayers and College wizards are pretty much 'stuck' in their career paths. However, should the player *really* want to change careers, the GM should try to see about designing a series of adventures around it.

... I'm sorry, what? Allow Slayers to ATONE? Their families have already held them funerals! They are considered shamed and dead, and the only way to remove their shame is to die in glorious combat trying to kill something huge or keep a horde at bay.

If the dwarf committed a relatively minor offence that didn't offend honour quite so much, he shouldn't have become a slayer in the first place.

Depends on how married to the Lore you are, I'd say.

If you're just using the game to create your own version of the Warhammer world and ignore lore that you don't agree with (Probably only works if you have players who are unfamiliar with the lore), then you could allow Slayers to atone.

However, if you care at all about what the makes Warhammer Dwarfs what they are, then Slayers can't atone. You can take another class, but you're still a slayer, and you still have to follow all the rules of a slayer.

phobiandarkmoon said:

well, to be fair, little to none of that information is included in the RPG materials (e.g. their families have hosted funerals, there is no way to atone, they are considered shamed and dead, etc.) That is all content found in either novellas, WFB books, websites, whatever.

HedgeWizard said:

I take it that you have not read the WFRP dwarf sourcebook titled Dwarfs: Stone and Steel.

Basically it agrees with everything phobiandarkmoon just said.

Silent Star said:

Nope - you're right, I haven't read it because I've never seen it (though I did hear of it). It came so late in the v1 development cycle, and I have yet to find a hobby shop that carried it that I know very few players/GMs who were able to obtain a copy. I am not saying the information isn't valid, but when so few people have access to it, and it is not contained in a sourcebook that the majority of users/GMs will have (or have access to) then that info does them little good. At that point, it's more like esoteric trivia, and I can't blame a GM, much a less a new GM for not knowing it and incorporating it into their worlds. Which was my point.