What’s to track? You just take a second to compare the relative elevations. If you can’t do that, this game is already too much for you.

These look really cool. I'd love to try them out.

1 hour ago, BadMotivator said:

What’s to track? You just take a second to compare the relative elevations. If you can’t do that, this game is already too much for you.

Yeah because adding a measurement (and the time to consider if moving onto any given piece of terrain represents a total loss of cover against every single other unit within range) takes “just a second”.

You’re drastically underselling the book keeping involved.

Remember, I didn’t say it was impossible, just that it’s utterly pointless.

You are supposed to discuss with your opponent things like terrain before the game. That’s all that this would require, something you should already be doing. And again, if this would be too much, then the game as it is is already too much. This is still an extremely simple wargame. It needs more, good, complexity to really function well.

23 hours ago, BadMotivator said:

You are supposed to discuss with your opponent things like terrain before the game. That’s all that this would require, something you should already be doing. And again, if this would be too much, then the game as it is is already too much. This is still an extremely simple wargame. It needs more, good, complexity to really function well.

You’re not supposed to memorize heights, just if something constitutes heavy/light cover/difficult terrain.

The height at any given point on a piece of terrain relative to others is almost certainly variable if you have something besides square boxes on hand.

The games rules are fine, height is already its own reward in being able to see past terrain (thus negating the cover bonus).

On 1/1/2019 at 4:39 AM, Timinater said:

I've been thinking about how the T-47' could be improved and what do you all think of this as an option?

- Event exclusive cards that have a Rouge Squadron pilot (or Gunners), such as Derek "Hobbie" Klivian, Dak Ralter, or even a T-47 pilot version of Luke!

- Hobbie could drop the arsenal 2 down to 1 and have cover 2 built in, and be negative points.

- Dak maybe a gunner that can shot out both sides and rear for 0 points.

- Luke? Maybe if he crashes replace him with the model version of Luke to then run about slicing **** up (flip the card and stats for this on the back) Just like ESB!

This way there are no rules changes, or need to reprint the current T-47 with changed stats ect, and this rewards players that attend events with something that makes their T-47 better and adds prestige. And with the T-47 Luke you could potentially run all four heroes on the one team!!!

Event-exclusive cards with different rules are the worst way to approach this.

you want to improve both these platforms which where clearly created to combat other vehicles in a trooper spam meta, it's simple give them Pierce, i mean geez i just took out the AT-ST after 6 months of sitting on a shelf and i watched Luke save 4 of 5 hits from my AT-ST and all without a Dodge token, how the **** does Leia get Pierce with a sporting blaster but a heavy blaster cannon doesn't.

11 hours ago, costi said:

Event-exclusive cards with different rules are the worst way to approach this.

I couldn't agree more. Seeing that typed out made me recoil in horror.

6 hours ago, Darth evil said:

you want to improve both these platforms which where clearly created to combat other vehicles in a trooper spam meta, it's simple give them Pierce, i mean geez i just took out the AT-ST after 6 months of sitting on a shelf and i watched Luke save 4 of 5 hits from my AT-ST and all without a Dodge token, how the **** does Leia get Pierce with a sporting blaster but a heavy blaster cannon doesn't.

I mean, statistically Luke rolled above the average (2.5 saves). It’s a statistical anomaly, on par with getting 6 hits and having Luke whiff all of them, dying instantly. Try no to read too much into beyond: You got (un)lucky.

That being said, pierce wouldn’t help shooting at Luke, since he’s immune to it. And Leia can only get 3 hits at best (which Luke would average 1.5 saves on; albeit if we take a page from your anecdote, no doubt he’d save all 3 ;p)

7 hours ago, Derrault said:

I mean, statistically Luke rolled above the average (2.5 saves). It’s a statistical anomaly, on par with getting 6 hits and having Luke whiff all of them, dying instantly. Try no to read too much into beyond: You got (un)lucky.

That being said, pierce wouldn’t help shooting at Luke, since he’s immune to it. And Leia can only get 3 hits at best (which Luke would average 1.5 saves on; albeit if we take a page from your anecdote, no doubt he’d save all 3 ;p)

Similarly, my T47 took 4 wounds off Palpatine on Friday: no-one was more surprised than me. I can only assume that the new paint-job made it better.

And just when I was looking at swapping it out for some wookiees and another AT-RT too...

OK I see what both side are saying but be so much easier to just give sharp shooter or cover 2 because it flying and make it so grenades cant be thrown at do to the speed and high at-st never used one don't have much say there and i never faced one.

15 hours ago, Fistofriles said:

OK I see what both side are saying but be so much easier to just give sharp shooter or cover 2 because it flying and make it so grenades cant be thrown at do to the speed and high at-st never used one don't have much say there and i never faced one.

With speed 3, and the compulsory move from Speeder, a T-47 shouldn’t be at risk from grenades unless you mess up your activation very badly.

it would help if Armor units had decent saves, for those times lucky crits pop up, i mean does it make sense that pistol wielding units can take down an AT-ST simply because the dice were lucky

I think your discussion on height is an interesting one. While I think all of the existing suggestions to fix the T47 are interesting, I woul give it one ability, a version of gunslinger.

New ability: Strafe - the T47 is allowed to attack one unit after it's compulsory move, and then attack a second unit after it's normal move. Arsenal 2 can only be used during one of the attacks, not both.

Salcor

3 hours ago, Salcor said:

I think your discussion on height is an interesting one. While I think all of the existing suggestions to fix the T47 are interesting, I woul give it one ability, a version of gunslinger.

New ability: Strafe - the T47 is allowed to attack one unit after it's compulsory move, and then attack a second unit after it's normal move. Arsenal 2 can only be used during one of the attacks, not both.

Salcor

Double attacks with the best weapon in the game. It just went from underperforming to the most OP unit in the game.

A bit off topic, but has anyone from FFG responded to the (perceived?) issues regarding the T-47? I'm curious if FFG thinks there's anything wrong with it? I'm guessing "no" because they haven't submitted an errata on it?

2 hours ago, arnoldrew said:

Double attacks with the best weapon in the game. It just went from underperforming to the most OP unit in the game.

True. Perhaps remove one red and one black attack dice on the follow up attack.

3 hours ago, Salcor said:

True. Perhaps remove one red and one black attack dice on the follow up attack.

Or just cut it in half like Saber Throw? I'm warming up to this idea.

6 hours ago, Prokins said:

A bit off topic, but has anyone from FFG responded to the (perceived?) issues regarding the T-47? I'm curious if FFG thinks there's anything wrong with it? I'm guessing "no" because they haven't submitted an errata on it?

It shoots 3 red/3 black dice at range 1-3, is speed 3 with a compulsory move.

So, better damage than Luke, faster than Luke, and able to zip through terrain better than Luke.

Also, thanks to armor, it only has to make saves against crits.

In case you’re wondering, that means it suffers damage from .667 of 1/8 on any given die (8.3%)

Luke by comparison suffers damage from .5 against 3/8 for your basic Stormtrooper volley. (18%)

So, basically the T-47 is faster, deals more damage at greater range, and suffers fewer wounds (while also having more health) than Luke, for a measily 15 points markup.

And it gives the cheapest additional dice, 4 black dice on the rear arc at 1-2 for only 20 points.

8 hours ago, Derrault said:

In case you’re wondering, that means it suffers damage from .667 of 1/8 on any given die (8.3%)

Luke by comparison suffers damage from .5 against 3/8 for your basic Stormtrooper volley. (18%)

Is that taking into account that the majority of stormtroopers have an impact weapon that has a 1/36 chance of missing entirely and most probably an aim token? I've found that it's a rare trooper volley that causes no damage to a T47.

8 hours ago, Derrault said:

So, basically the T-47 is faster, deals more damage at greater range, and suffers fewer wounds (while also having more health) than Luke, for a measily 15 points markup.

Does that take into account that Imperial forces save half the damage the T47 causes? Or that it is, practically speaking, very difficult to hide a flying vehicle out of LoS as opposed to a single infantryman, thus avoiding all damage? Luke has some pretty handy command cards too when compared to the airspeeder. And soon we'll be able to heal Luke but not airspeeders as repair only works on ground vehicles.

I like the airspeeder but I could never rely on statistics alone to justify its cost. Frankly, it's hard to explain in the game- given its speed, its use here moving at low speed and low altitude over a platoon of enemy troops makes very little sense. But being able to fly off the board to simulate an attack run would complicate the game and Capitalism says that we need to keep things simple to keep participation and sales up, particularly if we, as general populations, have diminishing maths and language skills.

2 hours ago, Katarn said:

Is that taking into account that the majority of stormtroopers have an impact weapon that has a 1/36 chance of missing entirely and most probably an aim token? I've found that it's a rare trooper volley that causes no damage to a T47.

Does that take into account that Imperial forces save half the damage the T47 causes? Or that it is, practically speaking, very difficult to hide a flying vehicle out of LoS as opposed to a single infantryman, thus avoiding all damage? Luke has some pretty handy command cards too when compared to the airspeeder. And soon we'll be able to heal Luke but not airspeeders as repair only works on ground vehicles.

I like the airspeeder but I could never rely on statistics alone to justify its cost. Frankly, it's hard to explain in the game- given its speed, its use here moving at low speed and low altitude over a platoon of enemy troops makes very little sense. But being able to fly off the board to simulate an attack run would complicate the game and Capitalism says that we need to keep things simple to keep participation and sales up, particularly if we, as general populations, have diminishing maths and language skills.

Yes.

I’ve justified the cost, with math, you’re welcome.

1 hour ago, Derrault said:

3 hours ago, Katarn said:

Luke has some pretty handy command cards too when compared to the airspeeder.

Yes.

I’ve justified the cost, with math, you’re welcome.

What value did you ascribe to the command cards?

I'm kidding. Good work.

On 1/5/2019 at 9:59 PM, costi said:

Event-exclusive cards with different rules are the worst way to approach this.

So remove the "event-exclusive" aspect of the idea.

What do you think about new pilots ect as a way to improve the T-47?

10 hours ago, Katarn said:

Does that take into account that Imperial forces save half the damage the T47 causes? Or that it is, practically speaking, very difficult to hide a flying vehicle out of LoS as opposed to a single infantryman, thus avoiding all damage? Luke has some pretty handy command cards too when compared to the airspeeder. And soon we'll be able to heal Luke but not airspeeders as repair only works on ground vehicles.

That's in the RRG? That you can't use repair on repulsor vehicles?

edit: Reverified, that is the case. That makes the T47 an even bigger target because it cant be repaired. I thought astromechs would be the saving grace for it.