Can Redline maintain 2 locks on one same enemy ship? Hopefully FFG can offically state this.

Also why can't Deathfire launch when it should be able to launch. A example: Deathfire gets killed by proxymine, Deathfire SHOULD be able to launch a bomb (says so in RRG about launch in system phase + bombs can be launched), then can't launch because FFG offically says Deathfire can't launch. Think FFG needs to rethink about Deathfire.

9 minutes ago, JimbonX said:

Can Redline maintain 2 locks on one same enemy ship?

Yes. Redline absolutely can maintain two locks on the same ship. There are no rules anywhere to the contrary.

9 minutes ago, JimbonX said:

Also why can't Deathfire launch when it should be able to launch.

Because Deathfire doesn't have a way to launch devices under most circumstances. All current bombs state that you drop them. Those are two different effects. Currently, there are one or two ways to launch one instead, but those generally won't work with Deathfire for timing reasons. If/when they make a bomb that can be launched, rather than dropped , then he'll be able to launch it on death.

Rules say nothing about maintaining 2 locks being forbidden, so yes redline can. He usually doesnt because its kinda redundant now that you dont spend the lock to attack in the first place (best to lock 2 targets so if one evades you, you cna still fire).
The droid that gives you 2 locks specifically states different targets. Dont get them confused.

Deathfire is futureproofing, currently he has no way to launch a device but presumably we'll get a device that by default launches, or can be launched, w/o trajsim.

Notable for Redline: specifically, contrast his wording, with that of R3 Astromech. The droid specifically states that the two locks must be on different objects, while Redline does not. So, double-locking a single target is completely legal.

1 hour ago, JimbonX said:

Also why can't Deathfire launch when it should be able to launch. A example: Deathfire gets killed by proxymine, Deathfire SHOULD be able to launch a bomb (says so in RRG about launch in system phase + bombs can be launched), then can't launch because FFG offically says Deathfire can't launch. Think FFG needs to rethink about Deathfire.

Deathfire CAN launch devices when he dies! His card specifically says so!

What Deathfire's ability DOES NOT allow him to do is launch a device that cannot normally be launched, and right now there are no devices that can be launched (at least, not without Trajectory Simulator, which Deathfire can't equip).

As Deathfire states he CAN launch, he is able to launch.

The only devices not CURRENTLY able to be launched are MINES. Bombs are fine because there are ways to launch bombs.

Read the card. It gives him the ability to launch a device. It's an exemption to the usual deployment rules for bombs. Why is this such a difficult concept for people to follow? His ability is currently ruled out from throwing Mines around because Mines cannot be launched. Don't talk about "Futureproofing" as there is no such thing, just your assumption.

What template should he use?

It's not defined anywhere.

3 minutes ago, Damo1701 said:

Read the card. It gives him the ability to launch a device.  It's an exemption to the usual deployment rules for bombs.

This is incorrect. Deathfire can only launch a device if he otherwise has a way to do so. Which, currently, is not possible.

See the official ruling on this:

Just now, jftanner said:

This is incorrect. Deathfire can only launch a device if he otherwise has a way to do so. Which, currently, is not possible.

Then it's an FFG typo on the card?

It's a pilot ability, like many others that breaks certain rules as they usually stand. It's stated as such in the Rules Reference, that cards can overrule Rules Reference.

Deathfire is an exception, not a rule.

1 minute ago, Damo1701 said:

Then it's an FFG typo on the card?

It's a pilot ability, like many others that breaks certain rules as they usually stand. It's stated as such in the Rules Reference, that cards can overrule Rules Reference.

Deathfire is an exception, not a rule.

There's no typo. Deathfire's ability allows him to deploy a device when he dies. It uses the launch and drop keywords, to be clear that he can use either mechanism if he has a device that can be deployed that way . Just because that's not currently possible doesn't mean that the card is worded incorrectly; it just means that he'll be able to launch a device if/when there is a device that is launchable.

Just now, jftanner said:

There's no typo. Deathfire's ability allows him to deploy a device when he dies. It uses the launch and drop keywords, to be clear that he can use either mechanism if he has a device that can be deployed that way . Just because that's not currently possible doesn't mean that the card is worded incorrectly; it just means that he'll be able to launch a device if/when there is a device that is launchable.

So, you are assuming.

As the card allows him to launch, and there is a precedent for launching ONLY bombs, he may launch a bomb.

If, as I suspect, you are referencing the poorly worded question in the pinned official ruling thread, then that further forces the bombs over mines thing, as bombs may be launched, but, mines may not, as it stands.

Good luck with that though. His ability states he may drop or launch, which is how he should be played. Otherwise, the card itself is incorrect, and you should take some correction fluid to it.

You are falling over your own logic by claiming that he CAN launch, but he just can't.

There's an official answer on this and it's very clear.

Continuing to argue is pointless.

But if you insist, please confirm what template should be used, with references.

6 minutes ago, Damo1701 said:

So, you are assuming.

As the card allows him to launch, and there is a precedent for launching ONLY bombs, he may launch a bomb.

If, as I suspect, you are referencing the poorly worded question in the pinned official ruling thread, then that further forces the bombs over mines thing, as bombs may be launched, but, mines may not, as it stands.

Good luck with that though. His ability states he may drop or launch, which is how he should be played. Otherwise, the card itself is incorrect, and you should take some correction fluid to it.

You are falling over your own logic by claiming that he CAN launch, but he just can't.

I don't know what you're missing here. This was really clearly answered.

His ability reads as follows: "After you are destroyed, before you are removed, you may perform an attack and drop or launch 1 device ."
If he has a device he can drop, then he can drop it. If he has a device he can launch, he can launch it. That's all it does.

Currently, there are no devices he can launch. His ability gives him the opportunity to deploy a device. It does not overwrite the actual deployment mechanism of the device. IF he could equip Trajectory Simulator, and died in the system phase, then he could launch a bomb. But he can't equip that upgrade at the moment and there are not (yet) any other upgrades to do this.

What template? Whichever one it says on the upgrade card, whether it's that or the Skilled Bombardier one.

Done, dusted, and in the bag.

That's right @jftanner you carry on trying. You contradict yourself every time you try and tell me he can, but can't.

That's the basis of the argument against here. Yes, he can, but, er no, he can't.

19 minutes ago, Damo1701 said:

What template? Whichever one it says on the upgrade card, whether it's that or the Skilled Bombardier one.

Done, dusted, and in the bag.

That's right @jftanner you carry on trying. You contradict yourself every time you try and tell me he can, but can't.

That's the basis of the argument against here. Yes, he can, but, er no, he can't.

Oh, you mean the upgrade card that says to drop the bomb?

You're right, this IS "done, dusted, and in the bag". FFG answered this question very clearly:

Can Deathfire normally launch a proton bomb? No, he cannot. Therefore, after being destroyed, can Deathfire launch a proton bomb (which, again, cannot normally be launched)? No, as stated -- very clearly -- in the official ruling.

I haven't contradicted myself once here. Deathfire does not have a mechanism for launching a bomb, not does his ability let him do so. His ability will only let him do so in the future, if/when they a launchable device or another way to launch a bomb/mine. Until then, Deathfire can't launch devices. It's as simple as that.

27 minutes ago, Damo1701 said:

What template? Whichever one it says on the upgrade card, whether it's that or the Skilled Bombardier one.

Except none of his upgrade card specify launch template as other have state. Bombardier does not specify a template, it say you can change the speed of the template you already have to use. Each Bomb and Mines say they are dropped using a specific template, you can't decide that you will also use this template for potential launch, because opportunity to launch also come with the template, if you go look at trajectory simulator.

38 minutes ago, Damo1701 said:

As the card allows him to launch, and there is a precedent for launching ONLY bombs, he may launch a bomb.

And by the way, no, there is no precedent as there is no rules about not launching Mine, they can be launched, so according to you, Deathfire could also launch mine:

"Mines can be dropped or launched during the System Phase and typically detonate after they are moved through or overlapped by a ship." in the MINE section of the RR

The only thing there is, is Trajectory Simulator specifying that you can launch bomb, that is why you can't launch mine, because the upgrade say so.

15 minutes ago, jftanner said:

Oh, you mean the upgrade card that says to drop the bomb?

You're right, this IS "done, dusted, and in the bag". FFG answered this question very clearly:

Can Deathfire normally launch a proton bomb? No, he cannot. Therefore, after being destroyed, can Deathfire launch a proton bomb (which, again, cannot normally be launched)? No, as stated -- very clearly -- in the official ruling.

I haven't contradicted myself once here. Deathfire does not have a mechanism for launching a bomb, not does his ability let him do so. His ability will only let him do so in the future, if/when they a launchable device or another way to launch a bomb/mine. Until then, Deathfire can't launch devices. It's as simple as that.

So, the Deathfire card is incorrect, and needs to be replaced and reprinted to say he cannot launch.

See, that's all you had to say.

But, wait, you have not said that at all.

Deathrain's card clearly says he can launch, so, he can launch.

TTFN.

1 minute ago, Damo1701 said:

So, the Deathfire card is incorrect, and needs to be replaced and reprinted to say he cannot launch.

See, that's all you had to say.

But, wait, you have not said that at all.

Deathrain's card clearly says he can launch, so, he can launch.

TTFN.

Nope, that's not what I said. That's not what anyone here is saying.

Deathrain's ability gives him an opportunity. That's all. Currently, there's nothing in the game to let him use that opportunity.

His ability also lets him perform an attack. Does that mean he can attack for a third time in the round? Or attack outside of arc? No, of course not. It lets him do a thing he can normally do, just at a different time.

Similarly, the second part of his ability lets him deploy a device the way he normally would, just at a different time. All the regular rules apply, including drop vs launch , as instructed by the device. The fact that all devices currently available say drop is not relevant and does not imply that there is a problem with how Deathfire is worded.

Deathfire CAN Launch a device that CAN normally be launched. Deathfire CANNOT Launch a device that CANNOT normally be launched. period. His card is not wrong.

6 minutes ago, PanchoX1 said:

Deathfire CAN Launch a device that CAN normally be launched. Deathfire CANNOT Launch a device that CANNOT normally be launched. period. His card is not wrong.

^ This. Just keep reading this over and over again.

(Thank you for putting that so succinctly, @PanchoX1 .)

As and when a Device is published which can be launched he can launch it.

Just like as and when dark side upgrades are published maul will allow rebel pilots to put them in force slots.

There are a few bits of intentional future proofing in 2e. This is one.

11 minutes ago, Damo1701 said:

So, the Deathfire card is incorrect, and needs to be replaced and reprinted to say he cannot launch.

See, that's all you had to say.

But, wait, you have not said that at all.

Deathrain's card clearly says he can launch, so, he can launch.

TTFN.

I'm like 99% you're just trolling Damon but I will throw my 2 cents in here just for clarity.

Normally bombs and mines can only be dropped or launched during the system phase. Deathfire has the ability to drop or launch something when he dies. His ability provides an exception to the timing for a device use not the method for use.

Yes he can launch something when he dies but only if it's something able to launched. If you look in the Rules Reference under device it spells out the procedure for launching a device. Step 1 is "Take the template indicated on the upgrade card". Neither Deathfire nor any current device has verbiage specifying a template for launching. Therefore at present there is currently no device Deathfire can legally launch at ANY timing window.

Since this is essentially a brand new game though it's very reasonable to think he may at some point be able to launch something. For comparison see Dart Maul. He specifies you are allowed to equip "Dark Side upgrades". Currently there is no such thing as Dark Side upgrade yet his text references it.

1 hour ago, Damo1701 said:

Done, dusted, and in the bag.

You're argument or yourself? Go home Damo, you're drunk.

1 hour ago, MockingBird ME said:

You're argument or yourself? Go home Damo, you're drunk.

And you said I call name in the other thread lol

By the way you have my utter respect, I will never get mad over game rule!

3 hours ago, Damo1701 said:

As the card allows him to launch, and there is a precedent for launching ONLY bombs, he may launch a bomb.

Even if you ignored my point previously, probably because it clearly contradict your belief... I suggest you go read Constable Zuvio...

Not only does he specify the template that will let him launch, because no, you can't just use the one on the upgrade card that is linked to a drop. But he can also launch mine without problem, he could even launch the Rigged Cargo Chute ! (Edit: Well he can't equip it and it is not a device )


What could I say.... BURN !


(Yes I'm cocky but seriously he ask for it)