Hey @a1bert , we are having a debate about the movement points gained from Spectre Cell. Do they have to be spent immediately, or can you perform the attack then gain the movement points from Spectre Cell?

Because the two things are phrased in such a way that they may happen simultaneously, a few of our players are saying that you don’t have to gain the movement points from the card until after you perform the attack. What sayest thou? Have we gotten any word from FFG?

Thank you!

"Gain 2 movement points" - movement points gained OUTSIDE your activation (the target of specter cell is another friendly figure) MUST be spent IMMEDIATELY or be lost.

There's no debate to have about it

You cannot attack and then move using Specter Cell's card. It must be the movement points first - either 0 1 or 2 - but as soon as you interrupt to perform an attack, you lose the remaining points.

Their point, @Kalandros , is that because gaining movement points and performing the attack are simultaneous, you can choose which of them to do in which order.

So, you can perform the attack, then gain the two movement points and spend the movement points then. I'm on the other side, but there's nothing I can find that shows that there is a problem with their rule interpretation--in that there is no "then" in the rules.

So, that's why there's a debate.

Looks to me that gaining MPs and interrupting to perform an attack are two interrupts taking place at the same time. So the player choose.

You can move 2 then attack or you can attack and move 2. You can NOT move 1, attack then move 1.

"gains 2 movement points and may interrupt to perform an attack"

Like said above, you can perform the parts of "and" in the order of your choice, but you can't split the 2 movement points.

(Edit: there are existing rulings.)

On 10/18/2018 at 10:26 PM, kennydkbrown said:

Their point, @Kalandros , is that because gaining movement points and performing the attack are simultaneous, you can choose which of them to do in which order.

So, you can perform the attack, then gain the two movement points and spend the movement points then. I'm on the other side, but there's nothing I can find that shows that there is a problem with their rule interpretation--in that there is no "then" in the rules.

So, that's why there's a debate.

For Call the Vanguard this works because you just the order in which you perform the attack and the move - you don't immediately gain movement points like on Specter Cell - Call the Vanguard lets you perform the attack first if you want, since you can't perform both actions at the same time.

The difference with Specter cell is that you gain 2 movement points - those are not an option or a choice, they are gained immediately (vs getting a free "perform a move" from Call the Vanguard). Specter cell allows you to interrupt to attack but if you do that, the 2 movement points are lost as they were not spent.

Call the Vanguard

-Gain interrupt to "Perform a Move" action

-Gain interrupt to "perform an attack" action

You have to actually use the Perform a Move action to gain movement points, until you do, you haven't gained any

Specter Cell

-Gain 2 movement points

-Gain interrupt to "perform an attack" action

You're given 2 points and the option to interrupt - regardless of the order you do things, the points are already there, they do not need to wait for the attack to be done to be granted

That difference might not seem much but it is why there is no debate to be had, the wording and the rules surrounding that wording are clear.

@Kalandros

or, you could view the 2mps as;

Gain interrupt to “gain 2mp”

since you’re choosing to write the wording to fit how you interpret it you have added or removed wording without actually applying the RAW of the rules.

at least stay consistent with how you read the same section.

9 hours ago, Kalandros said:

Call the Vanguard

-Gain interrupt to "Perform a Move" action

-Gain interrupt to "perform an attack" action

No, you do not gain actions from Call the Vanguard, just "perform a move" and "perform an attack". They are not actions. You can spend actions to perform them during your activation, and then they are actions, but not otherwise. In the same way Order, Executive Order, and Command do not give the target figure actions, just allows them to perform a move (or gain 2mp in skirmish) or an attack as specified.

Perform a move gives movement points according to Speed, just like Spectre Cell gives 2 movement points and Order gives 2 movement points.

Spectre Cell allows to gain 2mp and perform an attack, neither is an action. The movement points are gained out of your activation, so they must be spent immediately upon gaining them and any unspent are lost. You can choose to gain them before the attack or after, but you do need to pick an order. And yes, this is how it works.

See also Heroic, which allows Luke to perform an attack without it being an action. (And thus doesn't count towards a figure's attack-action limit.)

FAQ said:

Q: When I play "Jundland Terror," do I need to gain the 2
movement points before resolving the attack or special action.
A: No, the two effects can be resolved in either order.

@Kalandros , the wording for these cases has been pretty consistent over the last couple years. “And” means the player chooses the order, “then” means it happens in the order on the card.

Thanks @a1bert and @Golan Trevize !