Check me on this, because it seems to work, but feels dirty.

Lt. Sai on ST-321 and, for example, Soontir Fel flying wing. Fel is stressed, Sai is not. Sai activates, coordinates to Fel. Fel is in range, but is stressed, so his action fails because he's stressed. According to the rules reference, however, under coordinate, the coordinate is still "successful" because the target of coordinate was in range. The ST-321 title lets me TL something within range 0-3 of the ship I coordinated to, so it looks like I can successfully coordinate to a ship that I know can't take an action for the purposes of obtaining a target lock on something within R0-3 of what I know can't take an action. Does this track? I'm clearly not capitalizing on Sai's ability, but it seems to almost inadvertently add a really nice TL ability to the shuttle for the price of the title.

1 minute ago, JasonCole said:

Check me on this, because it seems to work, but feels dirty.

Lt. Sai on ST-321 and, for example, Soontir Fel flying wing. Fel is stressed, Sai is not. Sai activates, coordinates to Fel. Fel is in range, but is stressed, so his action fails because he's stressed. According to the rules reference, however, under coordinate, the coordinate is still "successful" because the target of coordinate was in range. The ST-321 title lets me TL something within range 0-3 of the ship I coordinated to, so it looks like I can successfully coordinate to a ship that I know can't take an action for the purposes of obtaining a target lock on something within R0-3 of what I know can't take an action. Does this track? I'm clearly not capitalizing on Sai's ability, but it seems to almost inadvertently add a really nice TL ability to the shuttle for the price of the title.

This works.

Yeah, you can use ST-321 to acquire a target lock even if the ally is stressed. Given that you don't otherwise have the ability to get your own locks, that's potentially pretty useful. That said, you're effectively sacrificing not one but TWO actions (with Lt. Sai) so it's rarely going to be the best option.

Per the RR coordinate only fails if no ship can be chosen and does not fail if the coordinated action fails.

The only slight objection I might make would be that coordinate is listed as 3 steps.

1. Measure range

2. Choose ship

3. The chosen ship performs one action.

So you could argue that you can't choose a ship that can't do an action. Attempting to do an action while stressed is not a failed action you just aren't allowed to do actons period.

Having said that though, it's such a weird edge case and inefficient use of Sai I'd still be inclined to allow it. The rules aren't explicit enough to make it clear you can't choose a stressed ship so sure get your target lock. Just like to have all the facts on the table.

6 minutes ago, sharrrp said:

Per the RR coordinate only fails if no ship can be chosen and does not fail if the coordinated action fails.

The only slight objection I might make would be that coordinate is listed as 3 steps.

1. Measure range

2. Choose ship

3. The chosen ship performs one action.

So you could argue that you can't choose a ship that can't do an action. Attempting to do an action while stressed is not a failed action you just aren't allowed to do actons period.

Having said that though, it's such a weird edge case and inefficient use of Sai I'd still be inclined to allow it. The rules aren't explicit enough to make it clear you can't choose a stressed ship so sure get your target lock. Just like to have all the facts on the table.

It says "choose a ship", it does not say in any way that that ship needs to be able to perform an action.

4 minutes ago, Icelom said:

It says "choose a ship", it does not say in any way that that ship needs to be able to perform an action.

Sure, but step 3 says the chosen ship performs an action. Stressed ships can't perform actions, so even if we say yeah you can choose the stressed ship that ship can't do an action. It can't even fail an action it's just flat not allowed. You could possibly argue that if you are unable to complete all three steps you have not successfully coordinated. That's what I really mean by saying you can't choose a stressed ship.

Failing an action does count as having done the action so if a non stressed ship failed a boost or whatever that would satisfy step 3. I just don't know if choosing a stressed ship would.

The rules don't specifically address it likely because it never occured to FFG someone would want to try and coordinate with a stressed ship knowing it wouldn't work.

Like I said though, given the vagueness of the situation I'm inclined to allow it, it's not game breaking. Just want to bring up a potentially valid objection if there is one.

20 minutes ago, sharrrp said:

Sure, but step 3 says the chosen ship performs an action. Stressed ships can't perform actions, so even if we say yeah you can choose the stressed ship that ship can't do an action. It can't even fail an action it's just flat not allowed. You could possibly argue that if you are unable to complete all three steps you have not successfully coordinated. That's what I really mean by saying you can't choose a stressed ship.

Failing an action does count as having done the action so if a non stressed ship failed a boost or whatever that would satisfy step 3. I just don't know if choosing a stressed ship would.

The rules don't specifically address it likely because it never occured to FFG someone would want to try and coordinate with a stressed ship knowing it wouldn't work.

Like I said though, given the vagueness of the situation I'm inclined to allow it, it's not game breaking. Just want to bring up a potentially valid objection if there is one.

"While a ship coordinates, the coordinate fails if no friendly ship can be chosen." -page 8 of the rules reference.

So all you need to do is choose a ship, and coordinate is successful, does not matter if the ship can do anything or not.

21 minutes ago, Icelom said:

"While a ship coordinates, the coordinate fails if no friendly ship can be chosen." -page 8 of the rules reference.

So all you need to do is choose a ship, and coordinate is successful, does not matter if the ship can do anything or not.

And if that doesn't convince you the very next sub-bullet states "If the chosen ship attempts to perform an action but that action fails, the coordinate does not fail."

52 minutes ago, MockingBird ME said:

And if that doesn't convince you the very next sub-bullet states "If the chosen ship attempts to perform an action but that action fails, the coordinate does not fail."

Yep, this is what tipped me to it. Sorry I forgot to paste that in. The next question to ask is "can Fel attempt then fail a focus action as part of the coordinate, or does the coordinate fail before choosing an action to try and resolve"?

1 minute ago, JasonCole said:

"can Fel attempt then fail a focus action as part of the coordinate, or does the coordinate fail before choosing an action to try and resolve"?

Fel failing a Focus action when being coordinated does not make the coordinate action fail.

2 minutes ago, MockingBird ME said:

Fel failing a Focus action when being coordinated does not make the coordinate action fail.

Right, I'm not looking at the coordinate at this point, I'm looking at Sai. But reading Sai's ability, the other ship has to perform that action for Sai to trigger, and a failed action isn't performed, so Sai won't trigger. Answered my own question with this.

2 hours ago, sharrrp said:

Per the RR coordinate only fails if no ship can be chosen and does not fail if the coordinated action fails.

*stuff*

Having said that though, it's such a weird edge case and inefficient use of Sai I'd still be inclined to allow it. The rules aren't explicit enough to make it clear you can't choose a stressed ship so sure get your target lock. Just like to have all the facts on the table.

Yeah, it could be useful however if I know that Sai won't have a shot this turn. Banking a TL for future use is never a bad idea.

2 hours ago, sharrrp said:

Having said that though, it's such a weird edge case and inefficient use of Sai I'd still be inclined to allow it.

If you have no other ship to coordinate and you want to have a Lock... Shuttle don't have the Lock action, and you may want one, so the trick have use. If you know you will not have another target for your attack, Lock is better then focus, so it is a valid way to have this Lock instead of doing the Focus action on Sai. Sure if you have other valid Coordinate target, it would be bad... But being a good player is using sub optimal situation to your advantage...

I'm in the 'ST-321 lets you lock after you coordinate a stressed ship' camp. My understanding of Coordinate is that it doesn't matter what the target does. There's nothing in the coordinate rules which prohibits choosing a stressed ship, in a large part because there exist ships which can perform some actions while stressed. Basically, I don't think there's a difference between {1} a ship not performing an action because it failed the action, and {2} a ship not performing an action because it is stressed.

You could also in theory choose a ship that can't do action anymore, because he did all of his available action. Ok extreme rare case, now in V2, but still. You could also choose a ship that only red action remain and you don't want to gain a stress so you don't do an action.

You can't arbitrarily decide that because the ship can't do action while stressed that he can't be chosen. There is many, many way a ship could end up not being able to do an action.

17 minutes ago, muribundi said:

You could also choose a ship that only red action remain and you don't want to gain a stress so you don't do an action.

Coordinate is not a "may". Nothing in it allows you to opt-out of performing an action if you are able. So, if all you have are red actions, you're doing a red action. (Or not coordinating in the first place.)

1 hour ago, jftanner said:

Coordinate is not a "may". Nothing in it allows you to opt-out of performing an action if you are able. So, if all you have are red actions, you're doing a red action. (Or not coordinating in the first place.)

Agreed, if the ship can do an action it's doing an action, now it can try and do an action and fail, but if its red you get a stress even if you fail it now.