Why?

Why is this an issue?

EVERY game is at the mercy of its creator/owner. Bar none.

Your own statement contradicts... you don’t drop a $200 purchase request - and invest in priducying it - when you’re encouraging people to go elsewhere..... you do it with an ironically priced kick starter or pre order... you don’t mass produce anything. You don’t waste an investment.

As often stated, FFG is a business. And a successful one in a tough field. They don’t waste money on short term payoffs... x2.0 is another case of that - a long term re investment.

In the end, though.

If you’re Gonna Die.

Die with your boots on.

We're still running kits (when our country has them available) and playing every week. We've got a bunch of players who play occasionally, but many who are out.

Sure it takes organizing a weekly meet-up, sure there's some work involved in switching up lists, loaning ships and other things to keep people having fun, but as Dras said, if you aren't willing to put that time in, then it won't happen and everyone will loose out.

And frankly, yes it's easier with releases, but those can also turn people off. One of the reasons I stopped playing X-wing was that it was having so many releases, and I had to pick up multiple copies of ships I never wanted to fly to get upgrades for ships I did. This wasn't so bad the first couple of times, but when it was every wave, and when there were so many waves? I just gave up. It also didn't help that Armada had dropped and I preferred that(this?) system, so it was easier. But no matter what tabletop game you play, you need to put work into organizing a group so that you can get games. Gnerally all that's involved is having a regular meet-up, or a place people can post or ask for games, but that still takes effort. If you want it bigger, and more exciting, than yes, running tournaments or campaigns can help, but just letting everyone know that tif they show up on a given night with a given game at a given place that they can get a game goes a long way, and really does not involve a lot of work from others.

8 minutes ago, Drasnighta said:

Why?

Why is this an issue?

EVERY game is at the mercy of its creator/owner. Bar none.

Your own statement contradicts... you don’t drop a $200 purchase request - and invest in priducying it - when you’re encouraging people to go elsewhere..... you do it with an ironically priced kick starter or pre order... you don’t mass produce anything. You don’t waste an investment.

As often stated, FFG is a business. And a successful one in a tough field. They don’t waste money on short term payoffs... x2.0 is another case of that - a long term re investment.

In the end, though.

If you’re Gonna Die.

Die with your boots on.

Because Armada deserves better? Because the people who invested thousands of dollars and thousands of hours into making communities around these games deserve better? Because YOU deserve better? We all do. Armada isn't going to be killed by a lack of interest -the fans of this game are VERY passionate- it won't be killed by a crippling inherent issue, if it's being killed by anything it's FFG causing a slow starvation.

Has there ever been a time where X-wing fans were unsure of the future of their game like this? The most they've had to go without info about an upcoming release is like, what, 6 months? Why do THEY deserve better than us?

As for the SSD release, as I see it, this thing has been in production likely from the start. It took them until now to feel confident enough in all their work to even announce it. If their goal is to starve Armada to death to make room for quicker easier and more lucrative games... They're NOT going to do it without cashing in on all that work first...

I don't wanna believe that FFG is cashing in and cashing out on Armada, but I can get rules questions answered in less than a day for Legion, direct from Alex Davy, but it took them over 300 days since the wave 7 announcement to let the fans know they planned to continue the game? I know what it LOOKS like to me...

We still don't even know if there's going to be a wave 8.


I've said before that I'm all-in. I've made accessories to ensure I can play long after these threads are forgotten and the game has lost all support. That doesn't mean I'm gonna be happy about the slow decay we're seeing....

40 minutes ago, Darth Sanguis said:

As for the SSD release, as I see it, this thing has been in production likely from the start. It took them until now to feel confident enough in all their work to even announce it. If their goal is to starve Armada to death to make room for quicker easier and more lucrative games... They're NOT going to do it without cashing in on all that work first...

I don't think FFG is giving up on the game, but I also am optimistic. I'm really new to the game still and can count on my hands how many games I've played unfortunately, I'd hate for this to be a throw away because I love the game and look forward to a lot of what they could add and bring to the table.

At the same time though, I can speculate and see some of the writing on the wall. The lack of information and communication is a death sentence. Various companies who have gone this way have suffered ends to products and such going this route. It's entirely possible they're done with Armada based on what we have seen or lack thereof. .. and releasing the SSD doesn't necessarily mean they're continuing either.

FFG could have been too far along in development and production to warrant an outright axing of the SSD and could afford to finish it and make what they can for a dead/dying game. On the other hand like others have mentioned and what I truly feel is that they wouldn't have continued to develop this if Armada were to be finished. But we won't know for a while I assume.

I don't want to have any doom and gloom about the game. It's an amazing game and I hope it continues to succeed. I just have one request. .. FFG please give us something. I see you are reprinting very popular expansions , I just want to know it is not a final push for sales. Please tell us there is more to this amazing game,so myself and Abdul these wonderful people on the forum can continue to have fun, and make pew pew noises

1 hour ago, Darth Sanguis said:

Because Armada deserves better? Because the people who invested thousands of dollars and thousands of hours into making communities around these games deserve better? Because YOU deserve better? We all do. Armada isn't going to be killed by a lack of interest -the fans of this game are VERY passionate- it won't be killed by a crippling inherent issue, if it's being killed by anything it's FFG causing a slow starvation.

Has there ever been a time where X-wing fans were unsure of the future of their game like this? The most they've had to go without info about an upcoming release is like, what, 6 months? Why do THEY deserve better than us?

Not even Xwing is answered as quick as Legion right now. But that’s their policy for them.

Legion needs answers because their game is broken and incomplete without it.

And it doesn’t matter if they haven’t had to wait - they’ve still complained about it. Currently it’s still on conversion kit cost wasting, and even now on legality of Extended / 2.0 on op events.

Also: I don’t deserve better from FFG.

I get exactly what I pay for, from FFG.

I expect better from this community, because we have seen the worst and we are still here.

It seems to me that three scenarios are possible:

1. The @Darth Sanguis scenario (SSD is the last cash out before game death)
2. FFG has a production schedule. It's just one with a longer time horizon than we like/expect.
3. FFG is just backburnering the game until it the opportunity cost becomes lower than the profits of making it again.

Since the first scenario is what we've all been fretting over, it doesn't need to be belabored. The second one also seems fairly self-explanatory.

The third is one where they have limited resources (design, PR, and support staff, not to mention outsourced manufacturing capacity) that for them to actively produce Armada, they need to take people off more lucrative projects. Accountants and analysts are the ones who would make decisions to push Armada or backburner it, simply based off projected costs and profits. Of course, it may not be accountants and analysts. It might just be some big dude who has a gut feeling about these things, and hopes that gut feeling is not a bad burrito he had for lunch.

I have no idea which of these is the case. I hope for 2, obviously.

I never had a local scene, but the crew from Philly, whom I typically consider myself a part of for Armada, have largely put Armada on their back burners. Their reasoning seems to be fresher game experiences with Legion and other games are available.

I think they're in for the SSD, but more or less, they're opting to play other games.

Not dead, just...not interested.

I seriously doudt the game is going to Die after the SSD, it doesn't really make sense

Company's don't like to loose money $$$$$$.

If Armada was not a source of benefit for FFG, they could just close the line. No new product (like the SSD) or re-print!!!

The fact that we have those is maybe a good sign that Armada is not in that bad position that some peoples think.

Yes, Armada is maybe not a priority like some of their new products but the game still on

4 hours ago, DOMSWAT911 said:

If Armada was not a source of benefit for FFG, they could just close the line.

This rings of truth. First off: I am deeply, utterly obsessed with this game. But if FFG cut Armada overnight and I couldn't reliably get a game, I'd switch over to X-wing or Legion. Because despite being generally inferior, they're still well-made and Star Wars-themed. And I'm not alone there, and FFG would take our money at a faster rate. Heck, even the complaints about the lack of reprints indicate this game at least sells. Not enough to get to the top of the SW miniatures list like we dream of, but enough to ensure we stay alive and warrant an experiment in 200 dollar showpieces.

19 hours ago, DOMSWAT911 said:

If Armada was not a source of benefit for FFG, they could just close the line. No new product (like the SSD) or re-print!!!

Right, of course it's of benefit to FFG. They're still selling product.

But that's not the issue. The issue is: how much return on further investment do they project to earn on Armada?

It might be that the SSD took a measure of R&D, and they figure it's worth still putting it out there. But after that, they might just let Armada sit. If it continues to sell well, they might pick it up again, but they might also just let it dwindle and in a year (or two... three) tell us that it's over.

BREAKING NEWS!

ARMADA FANS SOLD THE X-WING MINIATURES GAME IP AWAY FROM FFG!!

35 minutes ago, clontroper5 said:

BREAKING NEWS!

ARMADA FANS SOLD THE X-WING MINIATURES GAME IP AWAY FROM FFG!!

Oh, great. Now Games Workshop will start producing TIEHammer. Every new expansion will be more OP than the previous one, forcing people to keep buying to not auto-lose their games. ?

12 minutes ago, Mikael Hasselstein said:

Oh, great. Now Games Workshop will start producing TIEHammer. Every new expansion will be more OP than the previous one, forcing people to keep buying to not auto-lose their games. ?

Is this different somehow?

32 minutes ago, Mikael Hasselstein said:

Oh, great. Now Games Workshop will start producing TIEHammer. Every new expansion will be more OP than the previous one, forcing people to keep buying to not auto-lose their games. ?

Just as planned.

15 minutes ago, clontroper5 said:

Is this different somehow?

Perhaps you think you're being treated unfairly?

And, yeah, I do think it's different. Sure, having more stuff helps you put together things you couldn't do before. That's a far stretch from what I remember, back in the day, from GW, where the same ability from one army book/codex would cost less than 3/4 of that point cost in a later army's book/codex. Now, 'back in the day' was 25 years ago. Maybe GW has gotten better. I'll leave it to the more up-to-date forum hive mind to give a better sense of that.

Haha, yea I am confident ffg is much better then GW, and I also don't think Armada is dieing haha I am willing to be patient

On 10/18/2018 at 6:44 PM, Mikael Hasselstein said:

It seems to me that three scenarios are possible:

1. The @Darth Sanguis scenario (SSD is the last cash out before game death)
2. FFG has a production schedule. It's just one with a longer time horizon than we like/expect.
3. FFG is just backburnering the game until it the opportunity cost becomes lower than the profits of making it again.

Since the first scenario is what we've all been fretting over, it doesn't need to be belabored. The second one also seems fairly self-explanatory.

The third is one where they have limited resources (design, PR, and support staff, not to mention outsourced manufacturing capacity) that for them to actively produce Armada, they need to take people off more lucrative projects. Accountants and analysts are the ones who would make decisions to push Armada or backburner it, simply based off projected costs and profits. Of course, it may not be accountants and analysts. It might just be some big dude who has a gut feeling about these things, and hopes that gut feeling is not a bad burrito he had for lunch.

I have no idea which of these is the case. I hope for 2, obviously.

whatever the case may be (because even I don't believe the Darth Sanguis scenerio, I just bring it up because that's what it looks like to me, even it doesn't make much sense for them to do that, in my opinion) the effects are being felt. This last Friday was the second group no-show we've had in under 30 days.... I blame FFG.

If the local group peters out and people move on or sell out while FFG is stroking themselves over Legion and X-wing, I'm going to be a level of tilt inconsolable by natural means. Incoherent rage at Admiral Nelson proportions.

30 minutes ago, Darth Sanguis said:

whatever the case may be (because even I don't believe the Darth Sanguis scenerio, I just bring it up because that's what it looks like to me, even it doesn't make much sense for them to do that, in my opinion) the effects are being felt. This last Friday was the second group no-show we've had in under 30 days.... I blame FFG.

Oh, I hear you, they've been treating this game abysmally. Even if it is not their intent to shut it down, the lack of support means that boosters like us don't have a lot of motivation to keep boosting the game. Without people like us boosting the game, the game dies.

It just boggles me that they can get so much 'force multiplication' in terms of advertising by just writing us an article here or there - which costs them, what, two/three hours of some guy making around $30/hr.? Is that so hard?

So, I don't know if this is conspiracy or stupidity, but the end result may very well be the same.

I may be completely wrong here, but perhaps they have data that suggests that there is little or no scope left to attract new players? Maybe this really is a niche game, even more niche than x-wing, and they can’t justify producing more product when the majority of their customers already have bought 5-11 copies of each expansion, when they really only needed 2-3. I don’t think any of the new players I’ve attracted will ever have the same opportunity I did to buy at least one of every expansion within 6 months. I just don’t think the UK will ever get a restock that substantial. Wayland Games has been out of stock for over a year now as far as I know. It’s a vicious circle, because what newbie wants to drop £200-400 on a game that feels like it’s winding down? Of those 6 new players I’ve recruited, only one had the disposable income to risk seriously investing in 400 points for each side, and he said as barely able to find 30% of the expansions still in stock. He got a core set, a home one, chimera, a raider, 2 hammerheads and one each of each squadron pack. Literally nothing else was available.

@Drasnighta I’m not trying to be a naysayer to a game you (and I) love, I’m literally holding up my hands and saying what am I supposed to do when I get six people invested in a game and there literally isn’t enough stock in my entire country to give them each one of each expansion at RRP?

2 minutes ago, Bakura83 said:

Of those 6 new players I’ve recruited, only one had the disposable income to seriously invest in 400 points for each side, and he said as barely able to find 30% of the expansions still in stock. He got a core set, a home one, chimera, a raider, 2 hammerheads and one each of each squadron pack. Literally nothing else was available.

I'm seriously wondering about the potential of using this forum's trade thread as a network to get new players the expansions they need at MSRP, even if they go through a forum using friend to get it. There's merchandise out there that's just marooned.

10 minutes ago, The Jabbawookie said:

I'm seriously wondering about the potential of using this forum's trade thread as a network to get new players the expansions they need at MSRP, even if they go through a forum using friend to get it. There's merchandise out there that's just marooned.

You know I did consider this at one point. Especially after the “how big is your collection” thread and seeing people with 11+ of one type of ship. Maybe buying new Legion/destiny stuff and swapping it for expansions.

23 minutes ago, Bakura83 said:

I may be completely wrong here, but perhaps they have data that suggests that there is little or no scope left to attract new players? Maybe this really is a niche game, even more niche than x-wing, and they can’t justify producing more product when the majority of their customers already have bought 5-11 copies of each expansion, when they really only needed 2-3. I don’t think any of the new players I’ve attracted will ever have the same opportunity I did to buy at least one of every expansion within 6 months. I just don’t think the UK will ever get a restock that substantial. Wayland Games has been out of stock for over a year now as far as I know. It’s a vicious circle, because what newbie wants to drop £200-400 on a game that feels like it’s winding down? Of those 6 new players I’ve recruited, only one had the disposable income to risk seriously investing in 400 points for each side, and he said as barely able to find 30% of the expansions still in stock. He got a core set, a home one, chimera, a raider, 2 hammerheads and one each of each squadron pack. Literally nothing else was available.

I am having a hard time following your argument. You say that FFG will shut down a game because it has sold too much better than their expectations?

Just now, Bakura83 said:

You know I did consider this at one point. Especially after the “how big is your collection” thread and seeing people with 11+ of one type of ship. Maybe buying new Legion/destiny stuff and swapping it for expansions.

Because money is totally not allowed and we definitely wouldn't do anything so ridiculous. It's a resource worth pointing new players toward as is, there just seem to be a lot more people offering expansions rather than people asking for them.