I'm new to the game (2.0) and have played 6 games so far. We are having a great time but all our games have gone 4 hours (if we finish at all).

We are playing with 200 point squads per player, 2 players. The only thing we seem to do differently than is suggested is that we haven't purchased a game mat yet and play on a table (which is probably 1.5x the area of the 3x3 mat).

We do have to break periodically to read the rules but it seems we should be a lot further along time-wise each game.

What are we doing wrong? Is this true for all beginners or do we really need to invest in a mat?

10 minutes ago, CDP 2000 said:

I'm new to the game (2.0) and have played 6 games so far. We are having a great time but all our games have gone 4 hours (if we finish at all).

We are playing with 200 point squads per player, 2 players. The only thing we seem to do differently than is suggested is that we haven't purchased a game mat yet and play on a table (which is probably 1.5x the area of the 3x3 mat).

We do have to break periodically to read the rules but it seems we should be a lot further along time-wise each game.

What are we doing wrong? Is this true for all beginners or do we really need to invest in a mat?

When you’re first learning any miniatures game, longer games are to be expected because, as you said, you’re needing to check the rules.

The actual standard for games though is 75 minutes, 200 points each, 3ft x 3ft mat.

Either invest in a Matt or Mark off a 3' x 3' area. If you're new to the game there's probably more thinking about moves, actions and rules. Don't worry too much about time right now. Learn to play the game correctly and speed will follow along with shorter game times.

I did this when I first played too, so you're not alone.

Tournament rules are that a single game is 75 minutes long, and I think it's best to play with that time limit. 1- it means you don't go on forever, and 2 - it makes you focus on how you're playing, and what you need to do in order to kill your opponent.

If you find you need longer in order to check rules and the like, just extend it to accommodate that time.

Also making a game area that is 1:1 the size it's meant to be will help, that way there is less room for either player to run away.

My games all tend to take ~2 hours at the moment. Looking up rules takes a decent chunk of time, so they're getting faster.

Having too large of a play space may have something to do with your long games, since it gives a lot more opportunity for running away.

Another thing you may want to do, while learning how to play, is to restrict your game parameters. Instead of playing to 200 points, aim for a lower total (100, 120, something like that), and intentionally play on a smaller play area with less obstacles, etc. That way, there's much less room to run away, and more gratuitous plastic-on-plastic violence engagements.

That is very long, even for new players.

Make sure you are playing the phases correctly, most importantly that both of you are selecting all of your dials at the same time in the planning phase.

If you are doing everything correctly and are not spending a tone of time looking up rules then my guess is 1 or both of you are just extremely slow at making decisions. You may also just be both extremely tentative players and in a case like that the game can go on forever. My suggestion is once you are comfortable enough with the rules set a game time limit at 75min (tournament standard) this will force you to engage if you want to be able to defeat your opponent. it will also end long drawn out situations where you have 2 ships doing almost no damage to each other. (you can always pause the timer to check the rules)

I would also mark out the 3ftx3ft area to make it more confined and force more action, you do not have to buy a map just mark the area or cut a piece of felt or fabric. (although the official maps are really nice)

You will get faster, i can only remember a few game that went the full 75min for me, they almost always end before that sometimes long before that. There are players locally that do go to time semi regularly but usually only if they are playing another medium/slow player.

2 hours ago, jftanner said:

My games all tend to take ~2 hours at the moment. Looking up rules takes a decent chunk of time, so they're getting faster.

Having too large of a play space may have something to do with your long games, since it gives a lot more opportunity for running away.

Not just that but engagements will tend to be at longer ranges which favours defence.

2 hours ago, CDP 2000 said:

I'm new to the game (2.0) and have played 6 games so far. We are having a great time but all our games have gone 4 hours (if we finish at all).

We are playing with 200 point squads per player, 2 players. The only thing we seem to do differently than is suggested is that we haven't purchased a game mat yet and play on a table (which is probably 1.5x the area of the 3x3 mat).

We do have to break periodically to read the rules but it seems we should be a lot further along time-wise each game.

What are we doing wrong? Is this true for all beginners or do we really need to invest in a mat?

Having an easy way to narrow things down to a 3x3 makes sense, but it doesn't necessarily need to be an official mat. Some sort of non-slip table cloth could probably be bought fairly easily at somewhere like a Target or Walmart, and then marked out to 3*3 with Sharpies and such. It won't be super thematic, but it'd be a lot cheaper.

The other thing is just pacing. I know there've been some games I've played where we've just taken our time. Chatting more, being distracted, etc.

Perhaps the lists are just slow lists to finish each other off. A lot of timed 75 minute tournament games don't finish off the other player, they just end when the timer ends, with half the lists still on the table.

4 minutes ago, theBitterFig said:

Perhaps the lists are just slow lists to finish each other off. A lot of timed 75 minute tournament games don't finish off the other player, they just end when the timer ends, with half the lists still on the table.

A squad made of 3x Fang Fighters with Torpedoes will tend to kill things (or die) a whole lot faster than a squad of 4x Y-Wings with Ion Turrets can. One squad is built for a power alpha strike, then hyper-aggro fighting, and hoping the dice come out well. The other is a slow, deliberate, attrition-based squad whose one real purpose is control and patience.

Four hours seems very long even for newbies. It's possible you may be doing some rules wrong but without a lot of detail hard to say what. Standard tournament rules specify a 75 min time limit and in my experience the majority of games do not go to time, though some always do depending on the matchup.

A larger playing area may be contributing to that a bit as it makes longee range fights more common ans thus defense better.

If you don't want to drop 40 bucks on a mat right away (perfectly understandable) go down to your local fabric store and buy some black felt. By the yard it's very cheap. You should be able to get enough to make a proper size mat for literally just a dollar or two.

23 minutes ago, sharrrp said:

Four hours seems very long even for newbies. It's possible you may be doing some rules wrong but without a lot of detail hard to say what. Standard tournament rules specify a 75 min time limit and in my experience the majority of games do not go to time, though some always do depending on the matchup.

A larger playing area may be contributing to that a bit as it makes longee range fights more common ans thus defense better.

If you don't want to drop 40 bucks on a mat right away (perfectly understandable) go down to your local fabric store and buy some black felt. By the yard it's very cheap. You should be able to get enough to make a proper size mat for literally just a dollar or two. 

Or pick up a roll of blue painter's masking tape and a tape measure. The blue masking tape shouldn't damage the surface of the table.

Something new players don’t always think about, is choosing a target and attacking with as many of your guns as possible at once. Try to kill something in the first round of engagement, or put serious damage into it and kill it off next turn if possible. Think about your squad as a team instead of individual ships.

13 hours ago, CDP 2000 said:

I'm new to the game (2.0) and have played 6 games so far. We are having a great time but all our games have gone 4 hours (if we finish at all).

75 minutes is the length of a tournament game, at which point it ends (after finishing the current turn) and scores are tallied. Doesn't matter if literally nothing has died; after 75 minutes, game's over.

If you just play until everything on one side is destroyed, your games will naturally take longer.

On the subject of play mats: I've found good luck with half a yoga mat. You can get them roughly 3'x6' for pretty cheap and cut them in half to have two. A buddy and I split one and that's what we've used for years now. Works great.

One thing that no one noted, are you playing with blank without upgrade ship ? Are you thinking about modification you could do on attack or only on defense. One of the new player problem is keeping everything for defense instead of attack and then no one ever die.

Is it what happen in your game... More info would be needed to analyse.

Are you always away from each other.
Are you always out of arc
Are you always on asteroid and so not shooting
Are you shooting but never doing any dmg

All of these could help us see what is the problem

Are you playing to the last man standing?.

Because of course games can be very long in that case.

Just put a time limit and see who is winnign at that point

That's too long with full lists even for new players.

Your first problem is definitely your play area as has been noted. You need to play any miniatures game (i.e. a game without "spaces" on the board like you have in Chess for example) on a properly dimension-ed playing surface. There are a number of economical ways to achieve this without purchasing a mat as long as you have something capable of measuring to three feet. You just need a way to mark the four corners of the square. A pair of yard-sticks would do it. Take a piece of paper and some scissors and cut out four "L" shapes to make a frame. Two three feet pieces of twine or string. Maybe a pair of 36in" length shoelaces. Your ships are starting too far apart and it is throwing off the flow of the game.

Make sure you are then obeying the other setup rules regarding placing obstacles and ships in the play area.

Now make sure you're obeying the rest of the rules. Someone noted above the bit about making sure ALL dials for a turn are set in secret and at the same time. After the play area this was my first thought about your game length and creates the same problem -- ships are having to much difficulty shooting each other.

Make sure you're playing correctly with regards to resolving combat and taking actions on ships. I suspect just more target locks and focus actions would speed things up.

You're probably being indecisive and being slow with your decision making but before you get to that aspect I suspect there is something (along with the play area) you're getting very wrong about the rules.

Look for a local playgroup or experienced player to give you a hand.

But first off play on the correctly sized area.

Hey,

I play at a local store and this is more common than you'd think. You are NOT doing anything wrong at all. Most players who et games in under 75 mins usually are veterans or played in tournaments so they have that mind set. If you haven't, then you don't rush, take your time and are way more cautious about engaging. Once you get more table time, you will get better at your combos and the game get quicker. If you want to speed it up, agree on a match time and set a timer. But in the end, if you are having fun... who cares?! Pew Pew away.

Are you guys pre-measuring your maneuvers? You're not allowed to do that. That would both slow the game down and extend the game considerably.

3 hours ago, Frimmel said:

You  just need a way to mark the four corners of the square     . 

Just adding: Don't worry if it's not super precise. You won't be able to tell if a ship is out of bounds of it's just a few mm, but that's okay.

It's more about limiting the ability to run away, not to make a perfect square.

This is a really difficult question to answer without observing your play. Yeah, games are going to take longer while you're learning with needing to reference the rules, but 4 hours seems excessive to me. Since we can't watch you and your friend play and see if you're actually doing something wrong, if you haven't already I'd suggest looking up some learn to play or demo videos. Those should make it obvious if you've been playing things incorrectly in a way that it's stretching your play time. Team Covenant has some pretty good ones I think, you can find them on youtube, but there's tons of them out there. Just make sure you're watching 2nd edition and not 1st edition videos.

Play mat wise, we cut down a spare piece of plaster board to 3x3, taped the edges and painted it. Fits on our game table nicely and gives us the perfect play space.

I feel like I should point out that @CDP 2000 hasn't been back to the forums since the day they posted this. So, this is all good advice, but I think we might all just be talking to ourselves.

8 minutes ago, jftanner said:

I feel like I should point out that @CDP 2000 hasn't been back to the forums since the day they posted this. So, this is all good advice, but I think we might all just be talking to ourselves.

Must have started up another game after posting