One thing I really like about 2.0 is that all of the various upgrades are now really optional rather than must have. Naked Wedge (oh behave!) is **** good. He doesn’t need anything. Swarm tactics is nice to give a wingman I6, but it isn’t necessary.

I’ve found that when I’m list building for most ships there aren’t any really must have load outs. As my old friend Martha Stewart says “... and that’s a good thing.”

Has that been the case with you guys?

Yup. Balance has swung heavily away from massive upgrade salads for the most part which I've yet to see suggested as anything other than a good thing.

I think there are still some Must-Haves. Missiles and Torpedoes on dedicated ordnance ships like the K-Wing, Punisher, and Bomber. Juke on TIE Phantoms. Boba Fett has some flexibility, but Marauder/Han seems almost stapled on.

But!

Things are a lot better, and I also think this is good.

Local meta is still to pile everything into a small number of ships that do 5 things every turn. So basically, what I disliked about 1e hasn’t budged an inch. I’ve basically abandoned the idea of getting into 2e until their meta swings more lean.

Lets be clear, I agree with OP. Having the game in a state where is feels like a fighter has the option to take upgrades and not the need would be ideal.

The biggest challenge I've seen for people coming from 1st edition is getting out of the mentality that you must fill all the upgrade slots on a ship. That worked really well in 1st edition, because the most powerful ships were usually combining a busted pilot ability with a whole host of OTT upgrades to create utter monsters. 2nd edition requires a more careful approach. Some ships still want lots of upgrades, but others get by with one or even none. The first time I put Soontir on the boar din 2nd edition it felt weird because all he had was Predator.

I think there's a much better balance now, with upgrade options now representing more of a choice than a requirement. We had a brief period where ships were still having loads of upgrades added but eventually that disappeared as people started seeing the power of more ships over more upgrades. Even the must-haves are generally things like Juke on a Defender or FCS on Vader, rather than the 2-3 upgrade combos that used to appear in 1st edition. They also feel like enhancements rather than completely changing the character of how a ship operates, in the way something like TLT did.

The list I've played most is Soontir Fel, two Sabers and two Scimitars with barrage rockets - no other upgrades. It's super fun and I've won more than I've lost with them. It's actually super easy to fly as well because you're not bogged down trying to remember abilities and special rules - just focus on flying and you're good to go.

I have some ideas for lists that have several upgrades, but the OP is correct - you really don't need them.

Well there is one upgrade that is almost a "must have": the Hawk title. Banking actions, 3 dice attack and extending the arcs of your abilities is just too good to pass up

23 minutes ago, Church14 said:

Local meta is still to pile everything into a small number of ships that do 5 things every turn. So basically, what I disliked about 1e hasn’t budged an inch. I’ve basically abandoned the idea of getting into 2e until their meta swings more lean.

Lets be clear, I agree with OP. Having the game in a state where is feels like a fighter has the option to take upgrades and not the need would be ideal. 

I see that here too. Thing is though, this isn't really a sound strategy anymore. Just bring 4-5 Bombers, Punishers, Y-Wings or X-Wings and wipe those point fortresses off the table. The meta will swing once people realize how vulnerable the 2-3 high I aces list is these days.

1 minute ago, dotswarlock said:

Well there is one upgrade that is almost a "must have": the Hawk title. Banking actions, 3 dice attack and extending the arcs of your abilities is just too good to pass up

Watch it up 5-10 points at the first rebalanced opportunity!

I don't think they are quite all the way to superfluous but it does feel like you have a choice of upgrades and a choice to not upgrade.

I'm finding the Blue Squadron Escort and 9 points for R3 and Shield Upgrade or 9 points for Proton Torps to be an interesting. You have to fly the list correctly for how you spread the upgrades around and which set of four you chose. I mind losing far less when it feels like I didn't make the correct piloting choices than when it feels like I got out list built.

And so far I haven't felt out list built which suggests a decreased importance for upgrades.

The half points on everything is rough too. I played Wedge, Luke, and Y-Wing Nora against a 7 TIE Swarm a couple weeks ago. I destroyed 4 TIEs and he only destroyed Nora when time was called.

I lost because he got half on both Wedge and Luke, I only got half on one of the remaining TIEs. He scored more points.

So I got 4.5 ship kills he got 2 (1+.5+.5) but because I was flying pricey aces and he had a bunch of cheap throwaways I lost.

I'm reconsidering my overall list building philosophy based on that experience.

This will change as more waves are released. There are not many must have upgrades right now because the selection is limited. For example the selection of astromechs is **** right now. More will be released that will be better.

More waves means more upgrades. New cards will be released that will become "must haves" when people realize how good they work with older ships.

I like Han with Millenium Falcon only. I really enjoyed that once I played.

Still training my brain to be okay with naked aces.

2 hours ago, thespaceinvader said:

Yup. Balance has swung heavily away from massive upgrade salads for the most part which I've yet to see suggested as anything other than a good thing.

Well, it depends on how much you liked listbuilding and variation.

I liked being able to individualize ships and have choices for titles to create chassis sub-types; I also liked to see what I could do with sub-optimal choices.

If the upgrades are superfluous to the ship itself, then they are essentially a waste of points.

"Naked Aces Are Fine" just becomes a variant of the QuickBuild cards, if all you do is just pick a pilot and fly.

I have the feeling that filling the upgrade bar is not as mandatory as it was in first edition. I still see quite full bars for example with Nym or Boba.

Usually I add an upgrade or two, don't fly many completely naked ships (maybe I played too much MtG in my life...)

So I can't completely agree on "superfluous" . But I can agree on "builds with fewer cards are viable"

I think the Starviper practically needs Advanced Sensors, unless you plan on running them cheap. There’s a case to be made for Collision Detector, but IMO the option to take a boost or bent-BR before you maneuver is what really makes that ship tap-dance.

I've seen it go both ways. Some ships have raw efficiency that don't need diluting, some are still very Combo wing.

3 hours ago, Church14 said:

Local meta is still to pile everything into a small number of ships that do 5 things every turn. So basically, what I disliked about 1e hasn’t budged an inch. I’ve basically abandoned the idea of getting into 2e until their meta swings more lean.

Lets be clear, I agree with OP. Having the game in a state where is feels like a fighter has the option to take upgrades and not the need would be ideal.

Difference is in 2e if you start taking TIE Fighter swarms you can actually win!

2 minutes ago, Sasajak said:

Difference is in 2e if you start taking TIE Fighter swarms you can actually win!

Nope.

1 minute ago, SOTL said:

Nope.

Sush. You’re spoiling my fun.

12 minutes ago, Sasajak said:

Difference is in 2e if you start taking TIE Fighter swarms you can actually win!

9 minutes ago, SOTL said:

Nope.

I mean, I lost to a TIE fighter swarm.

1 hour ago, It’s One Of Ours said:

I think the Starviper practically needs Advanced Sensors, unless you plan on running them cheap. There’s a case to be made for Collision Detector, but IMO the option to take a boost or bent-BR before you maneuver is what really makes that ship tap-dance.

QFT. That's how I feel about Defenders as well. Some ships are built for certain types of upgrades, but I do love that there's diversity with that based on the player and not just an auto-include. Sure, the Moldy Crow title is a bit of a no-brainer, but that's actually a good thing - it makes it more of a hero ship. Upgrades still have their place, for sure. Many can be true force multipliers (trajectory simulator is a prime example) but the fact you don't need them is great.

I dont know how it will all pan out, but I switched my Thane/Wedge/Luke list with a bunch of upgrades for zero upgrades and a Phoenix A wing and a nice 8 point bid and I'm having a good time with it.

I do hope they keep prices of upgrades such that there are good reasons to take them but its not actually necessary.

5 hours ago, dotswarlock said:

Well there is one upgrade that is almost a "must have": the Hawk title. Banking actions, 3 dice attack and extending the arcs of your abilities is just too good to pass up

And ironically hard limits the HWK-290 to 1 per list...