4 minutes ago, SOTL said:

Scum, it's a Scum squad with the Scum Falcon!

Went back and used just the ships with no upgrades and came up 191 points.

2 minutes ago, Stoneface said:

Went back and used just the ships with no upgrades and came up 191 points.

What squad builder are you using? Official app brings up 169

Can confirm, Han + Lando + Palob + Best Pilot In Game: all four of them nakers = 169

7 minutes ago, WAC47 said:

What squad builder are you using? Official app brings up 169

The official one. Using a Kindle.

2 minutes ago, Stoneface said:

The official one. Using a Kindle.

Yep, 169 in the official app.
54 + 49 + 38 + 28

Quadrijet Transfer Spacetug - Jakku Gunrunner - 28
Jakku Gunrunner - (28)

HWK-290 Light Freighter - •Palob Godalhi - 52
•Palob Godalhi - Tethan Resister (38)
Debris Gambit (2)
• Moldy Crow (12)

Customized YT-1300 Light Freighter - •Lando Calrissian - 63
•Lando Calrissian - Smooth-talking Gambler (49)
Trick Shot (1)
•L3–37 (4)
•0-0-0 (3)
•Lando’s Millennium Falcon (6)

Customized YT-1300 Light Freighter - •Han Solo - 57
•Han Solo - The Corellian Kid (54)
Trick Shot (1)
•Tobias Beckett (2)

Total: 200/200

View in the X-Wing Squad Builder

6 minutes ago, Stoneface said:

The official one. Using a Kindle.

I think I know what you are doing, you are adding l3-37 on a escape craft aren't you? His squad doesn't use an escape craft.

3 minutes ago, KiraYamatoSF said:

I think I know what you are doing, you are adding l3-37 on a escape craft aren't you? His squad doesn't use an escape craft.

BINGO! Saw the title and the droid and added it into the mix.

Sorry for the confusion this early.

1 hour ago, Stoneface said:

Ok, I plugged this build in FFG' s squad builder and came up with 217 points. What gives?

Came out to 200 points in YASB. I see what your mistake was though.

https://raithos.github.io/?f=Scum and Villainy&d=v5!s!89:133,-1,62,-1,-1,-1,-1,-1:;90:133,-1,43,63,-1,-1,-1,152:;112:118,-1,-1,-1,-1,-1,156:;143:-1,-1,-1,-1,-1:&sn=Unnamed Squadron&obs=

4 hours ago, SOTL said:

FWIW: scum Falcon isn't undercosted, all the other fat turrets are overcosted.

whynotboth.jpg

You're a competitive guy and your running him. That's at least an implicit assumption that he gives you good bang for your buck, undercosted in other words.

I don't think the Scum and Rebel Falcon need a big bump towards each other. A few points each should be fine.

29 minutes ago, YourHucklebrry said:

whynotboth.jpg

You're a competitive guy and your running him. That's at least an implicit assumption that he gives you good bang for your buck, undercosted in other words.

Based on most tournament results so far, Scum Han seems to be performing way worse than Boba, so it' s likely not undercosted enough.

2 hours ago, WAC47 said:

“Don’t be that jerk” was in reference to a hypothetical person who would call out someone for using the “wrong” YT-1300 model, which has no game effect.

I'll never understand the purpose of that rule apart from the obvious 'you have to buy more models'.

41 minutes ago, YourHucklebrry said:

whynotboth.jpg

You're a competitive guy and your running him. That's at least an implicit assumption that he gives you good bang for your buck, undercosted in other words.

I don't think the Scum and Rebel Falcon need a big bump towards each other. A few points each should be fine.

Scum Falcon is about right, other big turrets need about a 10% discount.

4 minutes ago, SOTL said:

Scum Falcon is about right, other big turrets need about a 10% discount.

Out of curiosity: do you count the lancer as a big turret?

I assume you do count the Jumpmaster

Yeah, I'd put Lancer in that.

1 hour ago, LordBlades said:

Based on most tournament results so far, Scum Han seems to be performing way worse than Boba, so it' s likely not undercosted enough.

I'll never understand the purpose of that rule apart from the obvious 'you have to buy more models'.

All that tells me is Han Pilot isn't undercosted enough to replace Han Gunner on Boba.

5 minutes ago, YourHucklebrry said:

All that tells me is Han Pilot isn't undercosted enough to replace Han Gunner on Boba.

If Han was that good, you'd have seen him do well at Coruscant, with Boba not being an option.

2 minutes ago, YourHucklebrry said:

All that tells me is Han Pilot isn't undercosted enough to replace Han Gunner on Boba.

This exactly. Boba (pilot) is a far superior build then, Scum Han (pilot) and thagt the most used "Han Solo" is not him as a pilot but as a gunner is a clear signal of that. I think the issue is Han Gunner, Debri Gambit plus Boba combo. Scum Han will not get a major points increase because he isn't on the table enough it effective but Han (Gunner) is, as is Boba Fett with him (it's an auto-include situation)

Noooohohoho sir, scum Han is NOT undercosted at all. Uh-uh.

No way dog. That shuttle, title card, and all that stuff would make him unplayable if he was higher, and he needs a lot of it. On top of that, you still need escort- and what's worse? You have a TWO DICE ATTACK. Han is costed just right, because if he was any more expensive he'd be totally unusable for what he does. Which isn't a WHOLE lot..!

2 hours ago, LordBlades said:

If Han was that good, you'd have seen him do well at Coruscant, with Boba not being an option.

Let's just take SOTLs suggestion that Rebel Han is 9 pts (10%) overcosted. That's a 29 pt difference down from 38. Add in the 2 Shield Upgrades and that's a 21 pt difference.

If you offered me the option to add +1 Attack to Scum Han for 21 pts I'd still almost universally say no. The old 1.0 Punishing One title turned an overly efficient JM5K into a point sink. It was only worthwhile on Dengar and his insane ability. Scum Han's not crazy undercosted, but he's at least a little undercosted.

For all those saying scum han pilot is undercosted: have you flown him?

He is very challenging to fly effectively, and it takes a good bit of practice to make him work. He's cheap because unless you fly him really well, he's doing next to no damage with his puny turret.

22 minutes ago, gadwag said:

For all those saying scum han pilot is undercosted: have you flown him?

He is very challenging to fly effectively, and it takes a good bit of practice to make him work. He's cheap because unless you fly him really well, he's doing next to no damage with his puny turret.

Bingo. You HAVE to put Trick Shot on him to make him work right. If Han isn't flying around Asteroids, you're doing yourself zero, ZERO favors because you're not increasing your die count / odds for hits. Lemme' explain something.

Han Solo has trick shot baked in- this is good, because he's now getting just as much benefit from the asteroid as you are. Thing is, if your agility is higher than 2, you're rolling higher than Han. Han does not like this and does not like you for doing it, so this is why we put in Trick Shot.

Han Solo is now rolling four dice at you. Four! On a two dice attack. If you're stressed, and he definitely wants you to be, with the proper title he is now rolling five against you. So if you're flying squints or anything else speedy across an asteroid from him, the odds are still in Han's favor. If by some evil miracle, you're also at range one?

Han is able to roll six dice at you.

So even at range 3, you'll be rolling even with Han if you're stressed, and he's shooting at you from behind an Asteroid with Trick Shot and the title baked in. You do not want this!

Now, does that mean Han Solo has a severely strict manner of doing things to get all that working? oh yes, absolutely. But here's the thing. Han flying behind an Asteroid will usually mean your shot is obstructed too. Yes, large bases make it easier to hit the guy, but it is still a perfectly probable happenstance . So you need Han to weave around Asteroids to get the absolute most out of him. But here's the beauty of it all.

No matter what you're doing, you're still rolling better and getting rolled at better with Asteroid cover, than you would without. because more die = more odds, and more odds = more chances at hits, and more chances at hits means more things you can reroll or modify if you're smart and have IG-88 as his crew, using Calculate, or took a Target Lock token to reroll all the stuff you didn't.

So long as Han Solo has a higher chance at more results than you do, he's worth every single point you've spent on him.

Because at the end of the day, you never tell Han the odds, because the chances are they're in his favor.

Scum Han pilot falls into the same bucket as cards like predator or graz - they have a powerful effect, but it takes a bit of work to pull it off, so it's cheap.

On the other end of the spectrum you have things like the force, supernatural reflexes and rebel han pilot, who have powerful effects that can be easily triggered and thus are expensive (most force users, and rebel Han pilot, are probably a little bit too expensive, but my point stands).

Scum Han pilot will be hit hard by any nerf to trickshot, and he doesn't really want 000 going up in points either.

9 minutes ago, gadwag said:

Scum Han pilot falls into the same bucket as cards like predator or graz - they have a powerful effect, but it takes a bit of work to pull it off, so it's cheap.

On the other end of the spectrum you have things like the force, supernatural reflexes and rebel han pilot, who have powerful effects that can be easily triggered and thus are expensive (most force users, and rebel Han pilot, are probably a little bit too expensive, but my point stands).

Scum Han pilot will be hit hard by any nerf to trickshot, and he doesn't really want 000 going up in points either.

0-0-0 is extremely situational and just as likely to have your opponent kick you the calc token instead of the extra die due to their ship getting stressed. Depending on what you're running Han alongside you would be better off investing in a tractor beam and throwing small bases through obstacles to get them stressed.

50 minutes ago, Hiemfire said:

0-0-0 is extremely situational and just as likely to have your opponent kick you the calc token instead of the extra die due to their ship getting stressed. Depending on what you're running Han alongside you would be better off investing in a tractor beam and throwing small bases through obstacles to get them stressed.

I'm happy to take the calculate token for extra attack or defence mods. 0-0-0 is not critical on Han, but he's still one of the best crew options for that ship (alongside 4-lom)

10 hours ago, YourHucklebrry said:

Let's just take SOTLs suggestion that Rebel Han is 9 pts (10%) overcosted. That's a 29 pt difference down from 38. Add in the 2 Shield Upgrades and that's a 21 pt difference.

If you offered me the option to add +1 Attack to Scum Han for 21 pts I'd still almost universally say no. The old 1.0 Punishing One title turned an overly efficient JM5K into a point sink. It was only worthwhile on Dengar and his insane ability. Scum Han's not crazy undercosted, but he's at least a little undercosted.

I actually think it's more than 10% discount that's needed, but if I'd given my real number people would have lost their minds.

The power level for 2.0 is already so high that a massive reduction is needed to get them onto the table.