1 hour ago, Animewarsdude said:I mean...
Legends:
Chaff: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Chaff
Flares: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Flare/Legends
And because I looked it up, flares are canon and have even been used in the Clone Wars show.
I meant by-and-large, countermeasures are totally forgotten. Also nothing that was legends ever was canon, thanks to the stratified canon.
I like it, Pro Torps are powerful and could do with a limited counterplay. Limited is important though, I think straight up removing a lock gives you a guaranteed way of ignoring them on the approach and unleashing murder at R1.
Slot is important too, making sure it isn't too strong or too useless on certain ships. Base size could be a prerequisite.
The poor TIE adv wouldn't like losing its TL. If it just targeted munitions, that would be fairer.
Favourite idea so far is a charge to roll an attack dice and dodge the rocket. Perhaps as a mod slot on medium/large. Most small ships have a decent chance at managing a munitions alpha.
35 minutes ago, Captain Lackwit said:I meant by-and-large, countermeasures are totally forgotten. Also nothing that was legends ever was canon, thanks to the stratified canon.
We have been with this argument for years, and I still don't get it.
Neither K-wings, proton rockets, conner nets, jamming beams, TIE Punishers, or, I don't know, Munitions Failsafes, have ever appeared in old canon or new canon, yet we have them. Why are countermeasures beyond the line now?
I remember when missiles were never on screen used against fighters. Then games started using them and, in matter of years, they started being used on Episode 2, 3 and, later on, 7.
If homing warheads are used, its silly not to think that someone, somewhere, would consider developing a counter to that.
Drop a chaff token in the system phase, in the beginning of the engagement phase it goes off and forces all target locks within range x of it to be transferred to it. Or alternatively make all ships within range X of it to lose any locks they have on other things. Powerful but because it's dropped in system it can be played around.
I would like to see chaff as a modification that forces enemies to spend their token required for ordinance shots (target lock for torps/most missiles or focus for barrage missiles) to fire the ordinance. Prevents rerolls/dice mods. Each time an enemy declares the shot you may spend a charge to have the chaff activate.
How about;
Chaff - modification, 2 charges
When an enemy ship attempts to target lock you, you may spend 1 charge. If you do, you may roll one green die for this and each subsequent target lock attempted against you for the remainder of the turn.
On an evade result, the target lock action fails.
On a focus result, the attacker must choose a different target to lock on to.
On a blank result, the target lock action is successful.
Flares - modification, 2 charges
When an enemy ship outside your forward arc targets you with a missile attack, you may spend one charge to roll one red die. On a hit or crit result, the missile attack is negated.
Chaff. Some number of charges. Action spend 1 charge. All ships in your rear V (or rear half) at range 0-2 gain 1 jam token.
I don't know about Chaff/Flares, but I like the thought of Buoys. They'd just sit there and have a persistent effect until destroyed. I'd make them 3-agility, and dying after a single damage dealt to them. I'd probably make them non-Reload, much like Conner Nets and Proximity Mines.
Two Examples:
Jamming Buoy: At the end of activation, assign a Jam token to each ship at range 0-1 of this buoy.
Target Scrambler Buoy: When enemy ships acquire target locks, if they are able to lock a Target Scrambler Buoy, they must do so.
Edited by theBitterFig10 minutes ago, theBitterFig said:I don't know about Chaff/Flares, but I like the thought of Buoys. They'd just sit there and have a persistent effect until destroyed. I'd make them 3-agility, and dying after a single damage dealt to them. I'd probably make them non-Reload, much like Conner Nets and Proximity Mines.
Two Examples:
Jamming Buoy: At the end of activation, assign a Jam token to each ship at range 0-1 of this buoy.
Target Scrambler Buoy: When enemy ships acquire target locks, if they are able to lock a Target Scrambler Buoy, they must do so.
This idea I really like. See also attack buoys...
6 hours ago, Captain Lackwit said:I meant by-and-large, countermeasures are totally forgotten. Also nothing that was legends ever was canon, thanks to the stratified canon.
And because Clone Wars is part of the new canon then flares are in turn canon. Here are my sources.
Star Wars: The Clone Wars
– "
Cat and Mouse
"
Star Wars: The Clone Wars
– "
Rookies
"
(First appearance)
"
Blade Squadron: Jakku
"—
Star Wars Insider
172
What about Armada-style chaff?
At the start of the activation phase/engagement phase, spend two charges to place one chaff token in one of your zones/quadrants/arcs/things. When an enemy performs an attack against a zone/quadrant/arc/thing with a chaff token, treat the attack as obstructed. 2 charges, recurring.
1 hour ago, Animewarsdude said:And because Clone Wars is part of the new canon then flares are in turn canon. Here are my sources.
- Obi-Wan & Anakin, Part IV
- Obi-Wan & Anakin, Part V (Mentioned only)
- Servants of the Empire: The Secret Academy
- Battlefront II: Inferno Squad (Mentioned only)
- Heir to the Jedi
- " The Perfect Weapon "
- Star Wars: Forces of Destiny—Rose & Paige (Mentioned only)
- Before the Awakening
- Join the Resistance
okay i am not arguing against countermeasures just so you know
somebody around here seems to think that
literally just marvelling at how **** rare they are like wtf
8 hours ago, Azrapse said:We have been with this argument for years, and I still don't get it.
Neither K-wings, proton rockets, conner nets, jamming beams, TIE Punishers, or, I don't know, Munitions Failsafes, have ever appeared in old canon or new canon, yet we have them. Why are countermeasures beyond the line now?
I remember when missiles were never on screen used against fighters. Then games started using them and, in matter of years, they started being used on Episode 2, 3 and, later on, 7.
If homing warheads are used, its silly not to think that someone, somewhere, would consider developing a counter to that.
Whoa what the ****!? I never said they weren't acceptable!
I was marveling at how they're never frakking used in anything! Geez, way to put words in my mouth...
37 minutes ago, Captain Lackwit said:okay i am not arguing against countermeasures just so you know
somebody around here seems to think that
literally just marvelling at how **** rare they are like wtf
Ah, I thought you were trying to make a point about how they weren't canon. I suspect that most people forget about them since they aren't really used in the films...aside from the whole Obi-Wan using spare parts in ATOC to trick a homing missile. Most writers just forget they are a thing.
I guess if they wanted to represent Chaff and Flares they could have it where Chaff is more general and is either a Device or Modification upgrade that is dropped or charge based for an effect since they were used by releasing it from the aft of the craft while Flares instead could take up a torpedo slot. Based of legends Flares could be used to deal with incoming ordnance or to create a distraction, so maybe the 50/50 chance at evading a torp or missile for a charge or you can spend a charge to give a ship in your forward arc a stress token. Or the flare could be treated as the flechet from 1.0 and be like the Ion weapons where it does a single damage and deals a stress token for any other results that hit.
3 hours ago, Animewarsdude said:Ah, I thought you were trying to make a point about how they weren't canon. I suspect that most people forget about them since they aren't really used in the films...aside from the whole Obi-Wan using spare parts in ATOC to trick a homing missile. Most writers just forget they are a thing.
Maybe they were not used as much in the films, because the writers thought chaff/flares were more of a "Modern" concept, rather than a space opera one?
8 hours ago, Animewarsdude said:Ah, I thought you were trying to make a point about how they weren't canon. I suspect that most people forget about them since they aren't really used in the films...aside from the whole Obi-Wan using spare parts in ATOC to trick a homing missile. Most writers just forget they are a thing.
Christ on a pogo stick no, that'd be stupid to even argue. Of course they exist. It just baffles me we don't see it more often, or that it isn't a mechanic in XWMG oddly enough.