Hello.

Can someone please enlighten me on how it all connects? Skills, talents and monthly income are all based on Career path. But as the new characters become Acolytes; do they still do their old work? Why does an Arbitrator increase his rank when working for the inquisitor and not as an Arbitrator. And what jurisdiction does an arbitrator have? And what about the income?

I hope someone understand what I am trying to ask and figure out.

Also wondering a bit about how the monthly income and increase for Scum works..?

Thanks!

Ara said:

Depends a bit on how you see the Acolytes working - there is quite a bit in the Inquisitors handbook but | think the intended view is that the Acolytes both continue in their normal manner and work for the Inquisiton. It really is a bit up to you however - I see most active acolytes as going out doing more Inquisitonal things and usually having to leave theri normal lives. They may be able to return to them (for instacne there is a nice ex Inquisitonal Stormtrooper in the Cain's Last Stand novel)

Cain himself merrily continues as Amberleys informant, friend and sometime lover but as with most things I see him as an exception - interstingly in Scourge the Heretic novel (same author and also very good) the acolytes do not continue in their former professions........

Rewards you can either say that the players continue to be paid as normal - it would not be difficult to arrange for the Inquisitor - aslo if he or she wants than they can reward a charcter with advancement in their profession. I don't tend to worry about money myself - they get resources as is required normally.

Arbites - hmm slightly more complicated - they seem to have quite a large jurisdiction but I am not really sure how it all work myself (very 40k )

doubt this helps - sorry!

I think the best thing to do would be forget that the ranks have names. Do that and most any option you come up with (the acolytes continue their normal lives but help the =I= when called upon or they leave their normal lives behind) should fit in perfectly.

Giving the ranks an actual title was a bad move and they really should just be called rank 1, rank 2, as they're not really indicative of actual ranks on some organizations but separate factions within (I'm looking at you Electro Priest!).

My advice, forget those rank titles, ignore their existence. Let the players know that, in a lot of cases, they are not something one can be promoted to and graduate from, but it could make a great concept to base a character around (through all levels). An electro priest is an electro priest... although they need frenzy...

As for money, well, if you go the rout that they are still trying to live their normal lives while working for the =I=, then it's the money from that If they have been completely uprooted, then perhaps they're payed based on level of expertise / social strata. A noble will take a lot more to keep him loyal then some psyker who's just happy to be let out of the box finally.

Ara said:

That, IMO, is a matter of both origin and role: a Guardsman is trained for that job, and presumably picked by the Inquisition to do a similar job for them. You don't recruit a Guardsman as an acolyte so he can be a savant... you recruit him so he can be a soldier. The rank names are largely irrelevant, and are just a nice little bit of additional background flavour. The abilities available within a career path represent a character's standard progression - the stuff they're trained and training to do anyway because of their profession. Anything they need or want to learn beyond that is covered by Elite Advances, which are readily available, but have a cost in more than just XP, even if that cost is simply time spent training with out-of-career skills.

Think of it like this: I can easily and readily learn about vacuum technology, metallurgy and a few other disciplines as a natural consequence of my job... but if I wanted to learn a new language, I'd have to go out and do that off my own back in my own time, away from work, and with my own money. For me, Scholastic Lore (Metallurgy) is a possible career skill... but Speak Language isn't, so I'd have to purchase it as an Elite Advance.

Monthly income, I treat as a retainer fee - each Acolyte (which isn't a generic job description, but rather a broad term covering a wide range of different roles and duties) is paid during his or her downtime a wage equivalent to what they would have earned were they not in the Inquisition.

During that downtime, Acolytes will train, research, look for rare or exotic equipment, travel to other locations (even other worlds, if there's enough time) as appropriate for their career, follow up leads of their own, make inroads into developing their own networks of contacts and informants, etc... they're still working, even if they're not on active duty at the time.

That isn't their only source of income, by any stretch of the imagination - they're all paid on a mission-by-mission basis according to their success, and given access to resources as required by their investigations) and which are appropriate to the reliability and competence they've demonstrated as operatives, as well as anything they've requested from their Inquisitor (via a formal petition process; anything can be asked for... the Inquisitor decides whether or not it's viable).

IMO, me as GM decides how I want this to go around. I really follow the GM=God code. I have up until now done monthly income "by the book", but I am not satisfied because this let`s my characters have way too much money on hand - they spend it on gear, ammunition, weapons and the like. They are a group of the infamous "if we can kill it, we will" philos. I really need a tool to get more investigation going, cause these guys shoot everything - everything you say? Yes, everything! (every play-group is different).

It`s like old AD&D actually - who`s the bad guy, cult, org, whatever? - there it is - FIRE! The Han Solo way.

I am thinking on paying them by the mission and not by career path. Half of the group definitely won`t go back to "normal" jobs between missions (unless between-mission time is really long), so I think it`s best to treat all the same. They are permanently serving the Holy Inquisition until retirement by will or "occupational hazards". They will also be facing more severe consequences by their respective Inquisitor/interrogator when they blow all sky-high. Most of the time they honestly believe this was the best course of action and "after all, they were heretics... weren`t they?".

Scum roll on the table on page 125 in DH main, according to the rules. It`s quite straightforward. They never get rich. Unless they con someone....

I don`t use the names of the ranks as something in the game. I (or the pc`s) only use them for referencing were we to compare social status and power with non-Inquisition personell in relations to ex. contacts. The higher "rank", the better/higher ranking officials as contacts are available (just an example).

I also use rank description as a guideline to where influence can be brought. You just can` t be a "trooper" and guide the local Magistrate. Not without papers or proof of something at least. Were you ex. a "Proctor", you can perhaps influence a squad/troop leader.

Find out what works for you and your friends in the WH40k universe. Noone plays it the same way and the only rules are:

1. Have fun and don`t be afraid to fail. Being a good GM isn`t done in a day. Have faith!

2. If it works - don`t fix it!

3. If you tried it and it didn`t work, change it into something that does!

The two most important sentences in DH main are: "All the ideas and rules in this book are tools for the GM to use as they see fit. The GM is the ultimate arbitrator of the rules and may choose to modify, amend or even ignore certain rules to better suit the playing style of your group" (page 10).

But remember... With great power comes great responsibility....

Have fun!

PS: Did I just write myself completely off-topic?

I play a Psyker who went the militant path, and a Guardsman. (Can you tell I'm keen on the military seeing as I'm Coast Guard Reserve) I can't help in terms of a no set core group style of play (as in every character was just some git randomly picked out of a dust bowl world.) But I got my GM to agree to most of us coming from varied units in a sytem that was under Inquisitorial control...still from different places, but all used to a common organisation...the Imperial Guard.

Came up with a 'rank' chart for the Imperial Army based on a few of the Guard-related books (many a good read!) and the Dark Hersey listing as a base reference as to the number of ranks to go up to. Keep in mind it's generic of the US military (Not fond of the limited Commonwealth enlisted ranks, as they are seriously outdated!), and many Guard units tend to have extremely varied rank titles, especially for the officer class (more russian sounding, or knightly, or whatever their heritage dates back to). The pay scale actually works pretty well for it, allows for the Senior NCO/Warrant Officers (Storm troopers, and Sniper tree) to earn as much as the junior officer tree (Commander). It's typical of the service to award pay in terms of years of service, and bonuses at times like hazard pay (Which is what the Inquisition may do)...plus it keeps the players happy in terms of pay fairness. (Just because someone went to Commander instead of Storm Trooper doesn't mean they make any more or less without merit.) This also allows for those who have psykers branch into the Army a chance to see where they fit in the chain of command. For me it's better, as I can't stand a loose set of titles that aren't really ranks (wtf is an armsman besides a bloke who handled a polearm?? And you can call me a Veteran after I was in Yugoslavia and the Gulf, but that's 'Mister' or Chief to you, lol ), and inherently dislike most people's views on Enlisted personell. (Star Trek rings a bell in the fight for enlisted rights, ala the ever changing pips and eventualy striped Senior Chief Petty Officer O'Brien.)

Keep in mind the officers only cover junior ranks, as senior ranks (Colonels, Generals and Marshalls etc) are above the comand structure acolytes are in and given. Again that's the realms of Inquisitor level thinking and planning. (Commanding armies, whole planetary forces, etc, which is why the chart doesn't go up that high. An Inquistor deals with such tings, and wouldn't exactly go along with a loud mouthed General 'taking' orders form someone thier own level) Also for anyone doing the special Commisariat tree from the Inquisitors handbook, just keep applying the same chart as normal from whery they last started, as they basically will become junior officers (No sense them leading by fear if they don't have a guady officer rank eventually to back it up with 'punishment'. Just apply what names you would). Oh and this looks better when I drew it in chart form, can't do that here.

Trooper (Initial rank for all Guardsman characters 'Conscript')

Trooper First Class

Corporal

Sergeant

Sergeant First Class (End of straight Guardsman advancement 'Veteran')

Sergeant Major (Advanement rank for 'Assault Veteran' and 'Scout')

Warrant Officer (Initial rank for 'Savant' Militant')

Chief Warrant Officer (Ending rank for 'Storm Trooper' and 'Sniper'.)

Lieutenant (Advancement rank for 'Lieutenant')

Captain

Major (Ending rank for 'Commander' and 'Preceptor-Savant')

Yeah it seems like heaps, but it works for the amount of levels and titles listed already. It keeps any military members on the same pay increase chart (as normal) and let's me know where they actually fit in when dealing with Guard NPCs and military events. Now then, I'm sure the same vain can be done with the Arbites but honestly thier titles work pretty well, as they could be used in a police-like rank structure. (or just change a few to fit a more common structure as the Police may have in you hometown.) Can't say much for clerics and assasins, save they may also be conscipted (and clerics are in Army units at times, albiet in a different command structure) In the same mindset, Adepts could be clerks in military units as well using thier given structure chart and with little to know authority? That really leaves rogues out and about. (are they really in any organisation other then a guild or cult? (Anyone know?) Since thier pay is the roll of the die for base pay, I don't know what kind of structure they'd be given for the more formal classes with set heirarchies.

But as to the pay itself, well it does require a tad of book keeping. I don't know how most GM's do it, but breezing by a month is basically done if the players were for some reason in transit for that long (or almost that long) to a new planet (or the stroy for some reason jumped a month or two ahead in the next game session). Also payment should not be an automatic thing. The thrones aren't just wired to some sort of account on the exact day/time. Just like intersteller comminication and trade in the warp, sometimes it doesn't always make it on time...or if ever. Also, how in the world are players managing to save up enough to buy things? True the noble and priests tend to have the biggest wad on hand, but most items are hundreds to thousands of thrones overall. I'd maybe keep a stingy Inquisitor (or clerk) who was taking a look at the supply/demand of the group and shaking his/her head. They obviously don't need so many ammo drops and repairs/replacements that could be saved for higher purposes, hmm. And are they paying for all thier lodgings and food? (yeah it's not that cheap even for a 400 a month priest) Time to let them sweat some and perhaps take a trip to a feudal world or two where they can't even get a hold of anything higher then a crossbow or primitive edged weapon for a while, as they run out of flash ammo for thier super-duper guns, and where payment may come in the form of rather a rather useless outside of a feral/feudal world trade goods. On the flip side not all rewards have to be monentary-related. They'd recieve perhaps some 'holiday' time to take leave from Inquisitorial on-the-side duties (a chance for a different adventure perhaps without the Inquisition involved), a specific decoration/award/medal. Heck, they could even find themselves being blamed for something they actually didn't do, and perhaps fined, jailed etc. (Imagine having to clear their names and having them stripped fo most goods if actually illegal.) The inquisition might disntance themselves from them (and even thier real career employers).

It's all in the imagination mate. When it doubt, hold back and vary things that are going out of control. You can always add more, but it gets harder to take away the more you add to start...just like cooking ingrediants.

Solardream said:

Why would a Preceptor-Savant be given the rank of Major? They're not Imperial Guard personnel, any more than a Commissar (Departmento Munitorum, not Guard) or preacher (Ecclesiarchy - a civilian organisation) is... they're cross-attached from their own organisation (the Scholastica Psykana division of the Adeptus Astra Telepathica), which will invariably have its own rank structure independant of the Imperial Guard or any other organisation...

N0-1_H3r3 said:

Monthly income in the book really isn't enough to get by, unless the group wants to live in the slums and eat slop. Mission bonuses are nice but during missions have come across 'side ventures', assassinations in game essentially being paid to kill someone you were going to kill anyway - double dipping bounty is great - that have reaped some more money.

I really can't imagine a whole lot of down time. Destroy an evil cult then go back to your day job of a 40k mall security? Please. They could be able to train, research, etc for their real calling in the I. As such they have become Acolytes first and foremost and should be considered 'on call' at all times.

I don't see off planet travel as much of an option however. It is expensive and communication could be problematic as in 'we have an important mission but Bob is off world and won't be back for a month, Emperor willing and guiding his ship safely through the warp in a timely fashion' type situation. Plus how much interplanatery sway does your Inquisitor Boss actually have? How big is his territory?

Rashid ad Din Sinan said:

Who said anything about living off that money?

That money is what's left after living expenses.

Rashid ad Din Sinan said:

My group have never really needed to look into secondary sources of income. Their mission-related pay is more than sufficient... it isn't a "bonus", it's their primary source of income. Their 'monthly wages' are a little bit extra to tide them over during those long months spent waiting for the next assignment.

Rashid ad Din Sinan said:

When did I say they went back to their 'day jobs'? They're servants of the Inquisition... but an Acolyte Cell is not active constantly, nor should it be. Between discrete missions, the group is placed on standby, ready to resume active duties at a moment's notice. Their downtime is spent ensuring that they're as capable as possible for their active duties, in exactly the manner you've described (or rather, exactly the manner I described before, which you seem to have ignored). It can be months between assignments, so they return to the Tricorn Facility on Scintilla between missions to hand in their report.

Rashid ad Din Sinan said:

Territory? This is the Inquisition... their jurisdiction is the Imperium of Man.

Off-world travel is rare within my group, but it has happened - sometimes a Techpriest needs to visit the nearest Forgeworld. As it stands, interstellar travel is only considered when the journey is short and it's normally the only thing they do during their downtime. However, it's the only practical way to obtain some equipment, as I tend to deal with availability by planet... and that's before you consider character advancement.

Unless it needs to interfere with the character's ability to be present and accounted for when the Inquisitor calls for them, it won't. GM's perogative.

First off by response was to you as well as the initial post.

N0-1_H3r3 said:

Rashid ad Din Sinan said:

Monthly income in the book really isn't enough to get by, unless the group wants to live in the slums and eat slop.

Who said anything about living off that money?

That money is what's left after living expenses.

P. 28 says you get your income paid by the Inquisition. Later on 124 it says you get that income from your ‘day job’, investments, etc but it doesn’t get specific. Neither place says after living expenses have been deducted.

N0-1_H3r3 said:

Rashid ad Din Sinan said:

Destroy an evil cult then go back to your day job of a 40k mall security? Please. They could be able to train, research, etc for their real calling in the I. As such they have become Acolytes first and foremost and should be considered 'on call' at all times.

When did I say they went back to their 'day jobs'? They're servants of the Inquisition... but an Acolyte Cell is not active constantly, nor should it be. Between discrete missions, the group is placed on standby, ready to resume active duties at a moment's notice. Their downtime is spent ensuring that they're as capable as possible for their active duties, in exactly the manner you've described (or rather, exactly the manner I described before, which you seem to have ignored). It can be months between assignments, so they return to the Tricorn Facility on Scintilla between missions to hand in their report.

Original poster mentioned day jobs. Page 124 implies Acolytes can have day jobs or investment portfolios.

I also did not ignore your post as I even quoted it. I was referring to interstellar travel which can become problematic for the reasons I stated which you seem to have ignored as there could indeed be months between assignments but it could also take months just to contact an off world Acolyte let alone get him ‘back to base’.

N0-1_H3r3 said:

Rashid ad Din Sinan said :

I don't see off planet travel as much of an option however. It is expensive and communication could be problematic as in 'we have an important mission but Bob is off world and won't be back for a month, Emperor willing and guiding his ship safely through the warp in a timely fashion' type situation. Plus how much interplanatery sway does your Inquisitor Boss actually have? How big is his territory?

Territory? This is the Inquisition... their jurisdiction is the Imperium of Man.

Off-world travel is rare within my group, but it has happened - sometimes a Techpriest needs to visit the nearest Forgeworld. As it stands, interstellar travel is only considered when the journey is short and it's normally the only thing they do during their downtime. However, it's the only practical way to obtain some equipment, as I tend to deal with availability by planet... and that's before you consider character advancement.

Unless it needs to interfere with the character's ability to be present and accounted for when the Inquisitor calls for them, it won't. GM's perogative.

Jurisdiction is also GM’s prerogative. Do all Inqusitors have carte blanche or are they beholden to some hierarchy or territorial constraints? But that has been discussed elsewhere.

Yes, sometimes characters may like to go shopping on a different planet – GunmetalCity for example. We go the other route, most things are available on major cities in Hive worlds due to the huge amount of commerce it must do and as such most things are available there but perhaps at a higher cost.

Perhaps I was metagaming there a little but in general the variables and risks of interstellar travel imo should apply in the down time as well otherwise the GM is just making up the hazards when it is convenient for the plot. In effect characters should be pretty well planet bound for strategic reasons.

EDIT - Word apparently doesn't play nicely with posts.

Rashid ad Din Sinan said:

No, the rulebook doesn't say living expenses have been deducted. But then, at the same time, unlike WFRP, no mention of 'minimum costs of living' are present either.

It's a common enough interpretation.

Rashid ad Din Sinan said:

The time taken for interstellar travel and communication depends on personal interpretation as much

Rashid ad Din Sinan said:

For my group, Gunmetal City isn't another planet. It's another hive on the planet where they're based... which is the Sector Capital, and thus the primary hub of trade and transport within the Sector.

Rashid ad Din Sinan said:

I tend to go by the rule of thumb that availability worsens by one-step when not searching for it in its 'natural' place of origin. But some things - such as the most advanced bionics - might well only be available on a Forge World, and the finest quality items may require the services of a particular craftsman who may not be on the same world you're on.

Beyond that, some elements of character advancement require interstellar travel. I wasn't going to let my group's Tech-Priest just enter the Mechanicus Secutor rank without visiting the Lathes to be properly inducted, and during her downtime, the group's Sister Militant (who isn't actually an Acolyte, but rather a Sister on loan from her Order) may be redeployed to serve her superiors in some other capacity, or simply need to return to the convent to report and have the Order's artificers maintain her equipment.

Rashid ad Din Sinan said:

In your opinion, and that's fair enough. But I disagree. For the majority of people, interstellar travel is beyond their reach... but Acolytes are not the majority of people...

The risks of interstellar travel are considered a narrative element in my campaign. I'm not going to leave the fate of my campaign up to a single dice roll, just because the Tech-Priest needed to return to the Lathes for a few weeks. Similarly, I don't bother with them unless I need to within the context of travelling between worlds for their assignments - if the group needs to travel to Sepheris Secundus, I tell them how many weeks it takes, ask them what they want to do while in transit, and get on with it. I'm not going to roll to see if the Gellar Field fails and obliterates the ship and everyone in it (to use an extreme example) just at the start of the mission, because it's needlessly anticlimatic.

Beyond that, I don't honestly believe that Warp Travel is so risky as to be impractical. Every voidborn and naval rating has heard tales of ships being lost in the warp and coming back haunted, and similar horror stories... but the Imperium routinely moves untold quadrillions of tonnes of material and uncounted billions of men through the warp. The Imperium and everyone else engage in sweeping interstellar wars which would be impossible if warp travel could not be relied upon to a significant degree. Yes, the risk is there, and it could all end very badly... but the chances of doing so are so small as to be better left in the hands of the GM than thrown around randomly by unfeeling and insufficiently granular game mechanics.

I've always handled it as the PCs were detatched from their regular duties. The other option is they have some sort of cover which actively aids investigations.

The guardsman for example is attached to a rear echelon command group. He has a baracks to sleep, get meals, and gets standard pay. When he pleased his boss after a mission he was promoted to officer's rank. Which gave him private quarters , and a desk. He doesn't have duty ouside the his missions for the =][=. He basically goes on a bender for weeks after a mission until his money runs out. Then he stays at base. Training, or performing spot inspections of the guard or pdf. In theory he is detailed with special inspection duties, but his commanding officer actively avoids having the slightest idea what he does.

The adept on the other hand has a job as basically a filing clerk with the sector government. As a result he has access to records for the entire sector. He boss is an eccentric, and slightly senile adept who rarely gives him any work. The adept spends his days researching the descendants of a defunct noble house. (Which will become vital later in the campaign.)

The scum is a fence in his off time, and on occasion is bailed out of the local jail by the Arbiter. Who is assigned to a non-existant investigation, and hangs out at the arbiter fortress training, and doing his own investigations. The assassin either attempts to sell out his loot via the scum, go on drinking binges with the guardsman, or prays for forgiveness of his evil ways with the monks...

As far as what to spend money on? Why do you care? This isn't D&D money doesn't matter. Just keep the insanely rare stuff like lathe blades, force weapons, and the like simply unavailable. (Unless the do something to impress the =][=, or the tech priests.) Blessed gear isn't handed out to the non pious. So a task to prove their worth might be in order. They want power armor sure. They can't wear it on investigations, you can't easily lug it around, and who has time to stop run go get it out of storage and put it on. Heavy weapons are the same. Lug around a man portable lascannon? Show them the pictures here:
http://kofler.dot.at/40k/guard_units.html
Can they lug that around?

There are very few items that are game changers. Bolt weapons with the errata are impressive, but carrying around a bolt weapon is basically screaming we are really really rich, and connected!!! People will be trying to either steal it or run the other way. Sure you could conceal a bolt pistol, but ammo run out quick on the pistols. A boltgun is a massive rifle which you can't hide. On the other hand there are some great buys in the IH. The camo armored body glove, some of the battle drugs, a few tech items and a couple of weapons. Let them buy what ever they want within reason. It doesn't matter that much. Besides sooner or later they will get shot down and have to abandon their gear any way right?

N0-1_H3r3 said:

Thanks for the question, and let me answer it. Most civilians don't know a common difference between certain types of officers and thier jobs/responsiblities. What are they? Line and Staff officers. They all may hold a similar rank, but thier actual command responsibilities vary greatly.

Line officers, or 'Command officers', are those in the direct chain of command for the operation of the entire combat unit (or in a Naval case the running of the entire ship and/or command.) They are officers such as the unit-level (Corps, Battalion, Regiment, Company, Platoon etc) commander/or a ships commanding officer in naval terms, the Executive officer for each unit level or ships first officer. Also most direct combat departments, such as special forces commands, and other combat ready units.

Staff officers or 'Support officers', are those in jobs that are literally supporting the combat operations of the unit/ship. Doctors, lawyers, supply officers, communications officers, chaplains, and intelligence officers for instance are under this description. They command thier respective fields but do not assume direct command of combat operations in the chain of command. For example a Colonel physician, does not fall into the direct chain of command if say, a Battlion commander is relieved, dies, goes missing etc. It would then be up to the Battalion XO to assume command, etc.(Most support officers start at varied ranks. such as Doctors begging as O-3 Captain/Lieutenant, and Lawyers starting at O-2 First Lieutenant/Lieutenant junior grade, because of thier time in universities, etc)

How this translates into the Imperial Guard is quite simple: All medicae, preists, commisariat, and other non-direct-guard units are staff and not line personel. Thus they canbe any rank, but are simply given adherenace to thier speciliaty. When in direct combat, they are not under a soldiers direct command, unless tasked into thier jobs (such as running as a medical clerk, or helping the commisar round up deserters.). Otherwise that Major in the psi-corps doesn't lead around troops without the express permission of say the Captain of the Company, and for a certain specific mission/reason.)

Anyways, That's how ranking officers translate. Rank is simply to show the area of duties regulated to each profession. Only line officers have a say in the command for the rank and file soldiers. Everyone else is simply there to support the soldiers and line officers in the field of conflict. Whether it's a vaval vessel, or a ground pounding unit.

If I'm not making sense, I would suggest googling Line and Staff officers, as there should be heaps of material on the subject.

Solardream said:

As neat and tidy as that might be (and I'm vaguely familiar with the distinction anyway), we know it doesn't work like that in 40k. Amongst other things, the Imperial Infantryman's Uplifting Primer contradicts your chosen interpretation.

The Imperial Guard isn't a modern military, nor should it attempt to be. It's deliberately anachronistic in places (trench warfare, "Armsmen", etc), and adjusted to account for the fact that the Imperium is unlike any contemporary society. In the case of the four most common "advisors" to Imperial Guard line officers (Commissars, Priests, Tech-Priests and Savants-Militant), none of them are part of the Imperial Guard (or Navy, as the same applies in both cases), where their nearest equivalents in modern armies would be part of, and included within, their respective armed forces.

A Commissar doesn't exist at all within the rank structure of the Imperial Guard. That would interfere with his purpose. He exists alongside the chain of command, and can step in to lead wherever and whenever he chooses for whatever reason. This applies just as much to the Imperial Navy as the Imperial Guard, as they are subject to the decisions and judgement of Commissars as well. They're officers of the Departmento Munitorum... they don't hold an Imperial Guard/Navy rank.

Priests aren't like military chaplains - they're preachers of the Ecclesiarchy, not bound by the regulations of the Imperial Guard. They aren't part of the armed forces (indeed, as per Sebastian Thor's Reformation, they cannot be part of the armed forces - with the exception of the Orders Militant of the Adepta Sororitas, the Church and the Military are strictly divided), they merely accompany them.

Similarly, a Tech-Priest holds no rank or rate within the Imperial Guard or Imperial Navy - his authority and status come from his being initiated into the Mysteries of the Cult Mechanicus, not because he happens to also hold the rank of Lieutenant.

And, as with all the others, Psykers exist separately from every other Imperial organisation (with only two major exceptions - the Librarians of the Adeptus Astartes, and various Inquisitors). There's no Divisio Psykana in the Imperial Guard...

Incidentally, most logistical and supply personnel would similarly exist outside the Imperial Guard's chain of command, as they're all Departmento Munitorum staff. Indeed, it seems very likely that most of the Staff positions that might exist within the Imperial Guard are actually dealt with by another organisation, whether the Munitorum (which the Imperial Guard and Navy both are subordinate to, and also incorporates an organisation known as the Divisio Tactica), the Adeptus Mechanicus (covering all technological aspects, as well as the production of materiel), the Ecclesiarchy (all matters spiritual and moral)...

Solardream said:

You are correct about staff vs line officers. However,your analysis presumes that the characters that are designated as staff officers are actually part of the Imperial Guard. Even in the modern military, individuals from other organizations working with the military (such as CIA personnel providing intelligence for covert ops, or civilians providing contracted support services, FEMA personnel working with national guard during a hurricane clean up, etc. etc.) are not automatically assigned military ranks just b/c they are woking with the military.

Sure the guard propably has staff officers (intelligence, medical, logistical, whatnot), but psykers, techpriests, etc. don't have guard ranks because they are not part of the Imperial Guard. Instead they are part of an entirely separate goverment service temporarily assigned to work with a given guard unit.

N0-1_H3r3 said:

Quick and slight derailment, but Nathan you've just expressed in your staments regarding travel through the Immaterium my feelings of Psykers within the Imperium. I'm unsure as to your personal views on such, but if you just replace 'warp travel' with 'psykers' in the above that's esentially my feelings on the mater of Imperially Sanctioned Psykers.

Wu Ming said:

I completely agree, I understand that from a 'gamist' and design pespective the system works the way it does, as a game. I was merely stating that your description struck a chord as that is how I see Psykers actually functioning in the universe or setting (RPG, TT, 'Cool ****' happening in my Novel/Comic/Movie excepting.)

From my readings of Codex Imperialis and RT era Background & WDs I feel that I've devoloped a view of such things which is in stark drastic comparisson to many other's who are (for good and understandable reasons) basing their perspectives primarly upon TT and RPG and other Game 'Balancing' abstractions. The disconnect can sometimes be quite jarring, so many things in 40K seem to have such a dichotomy between the way the background material tells us things work or occur or are (Space Marines anyone?) and what the rules in the various games show us something is, or works ect. one of the more irksome charateristics of the 'setting'.

But I apologise for the momentary derailment, just wanting to let you know I really thought you ilustrated the concept quite well. Something, I myself, feel I have been unable to do despite having simmilar feelings on the Warp Travle issue as well as other things. Well wrought words Mister Dowdell.

Ara you coan consider acolyte worl from 2 pt of view

the first one they joing the inquisition to do the same job and for the skill they have from the class they choise and they make almost the same work use the same skills and need to same talent to acomplish what the inquisitor have to do (an arbitrator become an acolyte to grant to group a better understanding of law jugement and investigation and for his fighting capacity) is the same for all class (cleric for faith and devotion < tech priest for tech skill and knowledge , assassins for stealth and infiltration , ...) on this they play the same role in the acolyte cell they play in there previous life but are now pay by inquisition for the role they have ( so same pay check )

2e you can see them as ressources the inquisitor have request for a undetermined period and they are still ( officialy ) working for the previous boss (arbitress , ministerium, ...) they are just a loan between 2 imperial organisations

on both situation you can authorise some minor oportunity to learned skill or talents not on there original class progressions because they have some special opportunity to learned them (exemple: forbidden lore xenos for acolyte working for order xeno ) (on that case you can use elite advance rule for that) or allow those skill to be take as a cost you choose

for the pay check of the career and the considaration of all days expends you can consider they have some ressources allowed for that by the inquisitor and for some necessity like ammo, bribe, equipement ....you can consider giving them some extra pay from the inquisition has bonus for the acolyte status and allow them some equipement gift coming from the inquisitor

for those they posses too many $ dont forget the nquisitor can confiscate some or all the loot they have found in the mission (too powerfull weapons, armor and other pieces of equipement certainly go on this category)

for the scum the income is directly link to is activity as scum (deal, thief, selling of information, ...) the game consider this ressources as opportunity he have in the mission ( you decide) and between 2 missions. but feel free to give him a more standard pay has a acolyte mmember is you want

for juridiction i have this interpretation ...as member of the inquisition (low level maybie but inquisition member) there juridiction is everywhere in the imperium (respect of local authority is a good attitude when you work with them but you are little more of just your class because of your acolyte ststus

some class have a great juridiction range anyway.........cleric are part of a empire range organisation you just need to report on the local leader, arbitrator are like FBI in use they have full range authority (still report to local command is necessary if you have to deal whit them) but you are part of the inquisition o your out of the normal chain of command (some exception can appear....tech-priest can give priority to a omnissias gain vs an inquisition mission, arbitrator can turn again his acolyte cell and/or inquisitor if the go to far in radicalism or not justified activity and broke the law (p.50 dark heresy)