15 hours ago, TBot said:

The A-wing named pilots are at least useable. Albeit not amazing. Blocking with arvel is fun...

I mean, yea it's fun, but I've yet to see it make a worthwhile difference in a game. I've been trying to make him work, and I've even managed to get some spot-on blocks with him (+Intimidation) in a few games, and I've still lost every game I've brough Arvel. Arvel (and the A-Wings generally) are just too expensive for what they bring to the table, as they don't hit hard or reliably and their 4HP burns down fast with their limited defensive options, especially since thanks to Scum-Han Boba and Jonus Bombers and Howl Swarms and other options it's still really easy for opponents to bring quality full-mod attacks against the A-Wing. The A-Wing's overall low Initiative doesn't help anything either, as it makes it's wanna-be arc-dodging role exceptionally difficult, if not practically impossible, to pull off, and even if you do pull it off you're typically tokenless. So the A-Wing ends up playing like a fast blocker/jouster, but with its frailty that's a recipe for underwhelming returns.

Why would I bring Arvel + Intimidation when for the same points I could bring an 8HP Y-Wing with two seismic bombs and a turret (or some other loadout)? I can't find an answer to that question, so despite really trying to make Arvel work I'm tossing him out of lists for other ships now.

On 10/18/2018 at 2:00 AM, Tvboy said:

Alright here’s my idea that I haven’t heard yet. Replace vectored thrusters with this: Treat all hostile ships in your (V) (front arc) as though they were in your bullseye arc. And give the A-wing another talent slot. Make crackshot, predator and proton rockets awesome again!

Gosh, that's such a good and creative idea. I could even see this as making for an excellent ship ability, even for something like the B-Wing. It's kind of a bummer so very few Rebel ships ended up with ship abilities, relative to the other two factions. I think that's another big thing that is contributing to most players finding the Rebels to be overall boring.

I'm expecting when the A wing gets its rerelease it will include a high ps ace not included in the conversion kit.

13 hours ago, Joe Censored said:

I'm expecting when the A wing gets its rerelease it will include a high ps ace not included in the conversion kit.

It’s pretty much the only hope now if they really want to make it worthwile. It would at least explain why they cut down Rebel pilots so drastically and limit most of their iconic ships to PS4 when they are supposed to have some of the most elite pilots as well. Especially in the A and B-Wing that are notoriously difficult to pilot, and require pretty much excellent pilots from the start.

I mean Fang and Scyk have 3-4 named Pilots and also PS 5-6 ones, while E-Eing, B-Wing and A-Wing (not counting ARC) have the strict minimum 4, and Auzituck and K-Wing have 3!

This just feels unjust. They really need to expand on that and quickly. Granted the Interceptor also only has 4, but at least one is playable...

The B-Wing (and maybe/maybe not A-Wing, because Resistance ship) will probably get a rerelease long before the Scyk, though, and the Fang already has one. These are, as you say, the most iconic Rebel ships.

On 10/18/2018 at 8:06 PM, Hiemfire said:

2. If you want to bring empty slots into the equation, I'll raise you A-Wing = cheap, extremely quick, and agile missile boat...

Except it’s not. At its low Initiative, it won’t achieve a Target lock in the jousting turn and fire last, even against barrage bombers (assuming Phoenix squadron because cheapest) So thats all the TL missiles useless on them. And Concussions are not what anyone is going for anyway.

Barrage requires two slots, so yeah...

You will never get off prockets with the bullseye requirement at low Initiative.

So no, the A-Wing is not a missile boat.

The Scyk on the other hand isn’t either, but could at least take Serissu at I5. But then she would certainly have torps, not missiles.

I mean concerning missiles and ordnance, nobody is even playing in the same ballpark as Jonus Bombers. 3+ Jonus with barrage and you can still have an ace with you, or take Redline, or Sai... I have also played Proton torp Jonus Bombers. With Jendon. Nobody can joust that. TL turn one eith Jendons ability and you never use that TL with Jonus ability. So you generally get 2 fully modded protorps on target unless they completely dodge you.

Rebels as the «mutual support» faction doesn’t even dream of that kind of synergy. But they can’t have aces because they alreay have synergy going on? Come on...

1 hour ago, ForceM said:

You will never get off prockets with the bullseye requirement at low Initiative.

Never, really? Well, obviously not against Whisper, Luke or Fenn. But against a Lambda, a Punisher or a even a Firespray? Very much possible. Besides, if the threat of a five dice attack can force Boba Fett or Soontir Fel to boost instead of focus, you have something you can work with. Once in a while that A-Wing with prockets or Scyk with a HLC might even make them give up their shot. Obviously you can't use low I pilots to chase a maneuverable ace and expect to catch it, but that's never been the case. That doesn't mean that low I interceptors are useless, it just means that you have to use different tactics versus high I ships with repositioning.

The only issue I see here is one of pricing. Aces, in general I think, are a little too cheap compared to generics, and that is especially true on interceptors. Their main trick it repositioning, and repositioning gets better the higher iniative you have. Costs should reflect that.

3 hours ago, Okapi said:

Never, really? Well, obviously not against Whisper, Luke or Fenn. But against a Lambda, a Punisher or a even a Firespray? Very much possible. Besides, if the threat of a five dice attack can force Boba Fett or Soontir Fel to boost instead of focus, you have something you can work with. Once in a while that A-Wing with prockets or Scyk with a HLC might even make them give up their shot. Obviously you can't use low I pilots to chase a maneuverable ace and expect to catch it, but that's never been the case. That doesn't mean that low I interceptors are useless, it just means that you have to use different tactics versus high I ships with repositioning.

The only issue I see here is one of pricing. Aces, in general I think, are a little too cheap compared to generics, and that is especially true on interceptors. Their main trick it repositioning, and repositioning gets better the higher iniative you have. Costs should reflect that.

Low Initiative interceptors have never performed in the history of X-Wing. Not i 1.0 and not in 2.0. Nothing has changed about that. The less HP and more Agi the ships have, the more repositioning and moving last matters.

And taking Prockets on an I1 A-Wing is just wasting points.

The Generics vs Aces cost discussion is a different story worth discussing.

Why don’t we have high initiative generics? Don’t give them a Talent slot or any pilot ability. Just I5. I think that might give the A-wing a great identity and allow them to utilize their maneuvers better and be used for more than just blocking.

17 minutes ago, thomedwards said:

Why don’t we have high initiative generics? Don’t give them a Talent slot or any pilot ability. Just I5. I think that might give the A-wing a great identity and allow them to utilize their maneuvers better and be used for more than just blocking.

I understand why they're shying away from this design space, but I'd absolutely love it if they'd do this for both A-wings and TIE Interceptors. It would be fantastic to see Soontir Fel on the table leading three generic members of the fabled 181st, or a pair of flanker procket A's that were truly too dangerous to ignore.

5 hours ago, ForceM said:

Low Initiative interceptors have never performed in the history of X-Wing. Not i 1.0 and not in 2.0. Nothing has changed about that. The less HP and more Agi the ships have, the more repositioning and moving last matters.

And taking Prockets on an I1 A-Wing is just wasting points.

The Generics vs Aces cost discussion is a different story worth discussing.

no one has ever won Worlds with a Ps 1 a-wing, ever. Esp. Not Paul Heaver against Nathan Edie where it was a blocker.

1 minute ago, Do I need a Username said:

no one has ever won Worlds with a Ps 1 a-wing, ever. Esp. Not Paul Heaver against Nathan Edie where it was a blocker.

This. Also, the change from R1 to R1-2 bullseye is a huge boost for generics. It makes their area of control that much larger. Granted, I'd personally take them naked or with Homing Missiles, but that's more personal playstyle than lack of general utility.

Wouldn't surprise me if actual top players, like Eide and Heaver, win a couple of tourneys with ships and pilots the internet community has deemed completely useless.

My main list includes intimidation Arvel and prockets/marksman Jake as flankers. I am not very good, but I can tell you that my opponents do spend precious actions/dial in non-optimal maneuvers trying to avoid both, and someone who is good could probably punish them for it.

Also those two make the list perform extremely well against large/medium bases and formation fliers, to the point where I will occasionally even win a game!

12 hours ago, ForceM said:

Except it’s not. At its low Initiative, it won’t achieve a Target lock in the jousting turn and fire last, even against barrage bombers (assuming Phoenix squadron because cheapest) So thats all the TL missiles useless on them. And Concussions are not what anyone is going for anyway.

Who says you have to use the missile on the joust? Just because that's what is typically done, direct make it the only way. I envision A-wings managing range, than going for a 5-straight or 3-bank + boost to fly past the bomber swarm or whatever jousty block they are up against. If they are still taking some shots, they focus. If not, they set up the lock, then get set up for another run with lock + focus. I've seen Whisper, Soontir, and Vader pull this "bug out" maneuver to escape combat, and I don't see why A-wings can't play that game, too, even at low initiative.

Also, Concussion Missiles are pretty good if you focus the first round of combat, surrending your time for defense if necessary, then attacking to strip shields and hopefully put down some damage. Then jet out and grab a lock, and now you're ready for those missiles to do some work.

9 minutes ago, Parakitor said:

Who says you have to use the missile on the joust? Just because that's what is typically done, direct make it the only way. I envision A-wings managing range, than going for a 5-straight or 3-bank + boost to fly past the bomber swarm or whatever jousty block they are up against. If they are still taking some shots, they focus. If not, they set up the lock, then get set up for another run with lock + focus. I've seen Whisper, Soontir, and Vader pull this "bug out" maneuver to escape combat, and I don't see why A-wings can't play that game, too, even at low initiative.

Also, Concussion Missiles are pretty good if you focus the first round of combat, surrending your time for defense if necessary, then attacking to strip shields and hopefully put down some damage. Then jet out and grab a lock, and now you're ready for those missiles to do some work.

I think this might be where their problem lies. The thought process equating low init with joust or block only and wanting to dump maximum damage every turn instead of taking time to set up strikes. If it is the case, then they're being very 1 dimensional about how they fly.

12 hours ago, Do I need a Username said:

no one has ever won Worlds with a Ps 1 a-wing, ever. Esp. Not Paul Heaver against Nathan Edie where it was a blocker.

You have either not read or not understood what i am writing in this thread since the start.

I said it was a pity they want to limit the A-Wing to its role as a blocker (never denied it does that well) because it should also be an ace platform.

And i added to that that adding Prockets (or other expensive gizmos) to a PS1 blocker is wasting points. In case of the Prockets because your chances of getting a shot are slim before getting blown up or never getting the R1-2 bullseye. Heavers A-Wing had no equipment beisdes Chardaan and maybe Autothrusters afaik.

And your argument of a world championship list with an A-Wing doing well pretty much suits my argumentation.

There was another A-Wing, played as an Ace, not as a blocker that made finals on worlds (or was it gencon...). It was a Jake Farrel with VI and Prockets beside a Fat Han build. But at a time when Fat Han seemed obsolete already.

Which cements the point. The A-Wing is a low PS blocker, but it should also have its role as a high Initiative Ace platform back that they took away from it.

10 hours ago, Parakitor said:

Who says you have to use the missile on the joust? Just because that's what is typically done, direct make it the only way. I envision A-wings managing range, than going for a 5-straight or 3-bank + boost to fly past the bomber swarm or whatever jousty block they are up against. If they are still taking some shots, they focus. If not, they set up the lock, then get set up for another run with lock + focus. I've seen Whisper, Soontir, and Vader pull this "bug out" maneuver to escape combat, and I don't see why A-wings can't play that game, too, even at low initiative.

Also, Concussion Missiles are pretty good if you focus the first round of combat, surrending your time for defense if necessary, then attacking to strip shields and hopefully put down some damage. Then jet out and grab a lock, and now you're ready for those missiles to do some work.

Yeah at this point, i am going to say surprise us with your PS1 A-Wing Procket swarm.

In 1.0 low Initiative ordnance carriers were only good because of Deadeye. And then we’re talking about Jumpmasters that were crazy overpowered and undercosted.

I think i literally never saw a Generic A-Wing on any Competitive table with Ordnance.

But if you think you can make it work in 2.0, show us all!

3 hours ago, ForceM said:

You have either not read or not understood what i am writing in this thread since the start.

I said it was a pity they want to limit the A-Wing to its role as a blocker (never denied it does that well) because it should also be an ace platform.

And i added to that that adding Prockets (or other expensive gizmos) to a PS1 blocker is wasting points. In case of the Prockets because your chances of getting a shot are slim before getting blown up or never getting the R1-2 bullseye. Heavers A-Wing had no equipment beisdes Chardaan and maybe Autothrusters afaik.

And your argument of a world championship list with an A-Wing doing well pretty much suits my argumentation.

There was another A-Wing, played as an Ace, not as a blocker that made finals on worlds (or was it gencon...). It was a Jake Farrel with VI and Prockets beside a Fat Han build. But at a time when Fat Han seemed obsolete already.

Which cements the point. The A-Wing is a low PS blocker, but it should also have its role as a high Initiative Ace platform back that they took away from it.

It was never an ace, at least not a good one. Ever. X-wing have always been blockers, a role at which they excelled, and still do. You keep saying they lost something, when they did not. At most what they lost was the same thing every 1.0 ship had in terms of massive power creep. It's akin to complaining the the y-wing lost its role as a tlt carrier. The role it lost was not one it was a go-to for, and not one that it or we needed.

1 hour ago, Do I need a Username said:

It was never an ace, at least not a good one. Ever. X-wing have always been blockers, a role at which they excelled, and still do. You keep saying they lost something, when they did not. At most what they lost was the same thing every 1.0 ship had in terms of massive power creep. It's akin to complaining the the y-wing lost its role as a tlt carrier. The role it lost was not one it was a go-to for, and not one that it or we needed.

You had Tycho and Jake that could have PS9 or 10. And they were played as aces. A lot if ships were treated that way by taking VI, but that doesn’t mean they didn’t lose the role. Tycho also was there from the beginning, and had PS8 base. Something we don’t have now.

We don’t need Tycho specifically, a different pilot with different ability would be okay, but we had what corresponds now to I5 now, and the A-Wing did lose that. No denying it.

7 hours ago, ForceM said:

Yeah at this point, i am going to say surprise us with your PS1 A-Wing Procket swarm.

In 1.0 low Initiative ordnance carriers were only good because of Deadeye. And then we’re talking about Jumpmasters that were crazy overpowered and undercosted.

I think i literally never saw a Generic A-Wing on any Competitive table with Ordnance.

But if you think you can make it work in 2.0, show us all!

Ok, so first I have to apologize because my tone was probably not the best. I meant to say, "What if we..." I mean, there's so much talk about maneuvers mattering now, so perhaps there is room for some new ways to fly. Forgive me if I came off as abrasive.

So with that stated, I accept your challenge...maybe. How many A-wings does it take to satisfy this challenge? I only have one conversion kit, so I have access to 2 Phoenix, 2 Green, Arvel, and Jake. But hey, I bought it so I might as well use it.

Gonna try to fit 3 A-wings and see what I can make work. I'll try putting them with really strong stuff (Supernatural Reflexes Luke, etc.), support (Bodhi Rook, Airen Cracken, Esege Tuketu, etc.), or other generics (missile-toting Z-95 Headhunters, etc.). I don't play as often as I'd like, but looks like A-wings will be on my tables for a while.

The worst aspect of the A-wing is that they took the only true Arc Dodger for the faction and clipped its wings for absolutely no reason. PS 9 Jake was an arc dodger. PS 10 or even PS 8 Tycho was an arc dodger, so anyone who's saying that they were never Aces is just completely wrong. They threw that away for what reason? What was so bad about the A-Wing being a two attack dice arc dodger at PS 9 that it deserved to get nuked as a platform?

I enjoyed flying Jake a lot in rebels and it really just feels like a slap in the face for no reason. Why do I not deserve to fly arc dodgers because I'm a rebel player? It's honestly nonsense because Rebels are really hurting in the absence of arc dodgers right now.

On 10/19/2018 at 1:51 PM, Joe Censored said:

I'm expecting when the A wing gets its rerelease it will include a high ps ace not included in the conversion kit.

Probably, but that doesn't do anything to help all the other A-Wing pilots, as the ship is underwhelming at low or average PS.

1 hour ago, ThinkingB said:

The worst aspect of the A-wing is that they took the only true Arc Dodger for the faction and clipped its wings for absolutely no reason. PS 9 Jake was an arc dodger. PS 10 or even PS 8 Tycho was an arc dodger, so anyone who's saying that they were never Aces is just completely wrong. They threw that away for what reason? What was so bad about the A-Wing being a two attack dice arc dodger at PS 9 that it deserved to get nuked as a platform?

I enjoyed flying Jake a lot in rebels and it really just feels like a slap in the face for no reason. Why do I not deserve to fly arc dodgers because I'm a rebel player? It's honestly nonsense because Rebels are really hurting in the absence of arc dodgers right now.

Veteran Instincts was a mistake, and removing it was **** near necessary for the health of the game.

1 hour ago, ThinkingB said:

The worst aspect of the A-wing is that they took the only true Arc Dodger for the faction and clipped its wings for absolutely no reason. PS 9 Jake was an arc dodger. PS 10 or even PS 8 Tycho was an arc dodger, so anyone who's saying that they were never Aces is just completely wrong. They threw that away for what reason? What was so bad about the A-Wing being a two attack dice arc dodger at PS 9 that it deserved to get nuked as a platform?

I enjoyed flying Jake a lot in rebels and it really just feels like a slap in the face for no reason. Why do I not deserve to fly arc dodgers because I'm a rebel player? It's honestly nonsense because Rebels are really hurting in the absence of arc dodgers right now.

X-wings are arc dodgers... They even have a ps 6 ship with access to both boost and barrel roll. (scum has no one that's any more arc dodgy than that)

Is Soontir fel really crushing out the meta right now? because there is only 1 double reposition ship in the game that's greater then ps 4 and that's soontir. Where are these other factions arc dodgers that are causing the rebels to be "really hurting"?. For single repositioners, rebels have tons of choice.

2 minutes ago, Icelom said:

X-wings are arc dodgers... They even have a ps 6 ship with access to both boost and barrel roll. (scum has no one that's any more arc dodgy than that)

Is Soontir fel really crushing out the meta right now? because there is only 1 double reposition ship in the game that's greater then ps 4 and that's soontir. Where are these other factions arc dodgers that are causing the rebels to be "really hurting"?. For single repositioners, rebels have tons of choice.

Luke called, he wants to let you know he won't be coming in your arc ever.

Just because you played ps11 tycho didn't mean it was good. The a wing got made significantly better, and the only thing it may have lost of any significant value was snap shot. Complaining about losing ace awings is similar to complaining about losing lt. Lorries in the interceptor. It wasn't really ever good, and it wasn't what the ship did. However, I have realized my mistake. You want to be angry, not figure out how to use an A-wing.