To be fair while I disagree with a lot of presentation of Avatars issues, I do find some of these issues (weapon table looking it misses special abilities like all items from DLC get, Coiling Style, and so on) real. For example, I feel very uncomfortable building a character that would want to use Coiling Serpent Style, because its current iteration is far too binary and absolute, while leaving very little interesting counterplay. I would have to constantly self-monitor while using it, and thats not fun.

27 minutes ago, Vutall said:

Coiling serpent isn't really a problem. One, few people (If any) are going to be using snaring weapons (Gao being rare and non traditional, Jite being used by Magistrates so I could see these more often, and Trident which is used by fishermen and such, not generally as a weapon), and two, it has to check against readied weapons.

The weapons table is to offer some options, but generally speaking, your samurai are going to be using samurai weapons. The katana, wakizashi, naginata, tetsubo. Your ashigaru will use spears mostly. Monks probably a bo. So many of the other weapons are just flavor ad shouldn't see many scenes.

If a player takes it and wants to use that, then awesome! I'm all for it. I get to figure out ways for my NPCs to get around that. The first being they carry two weapons. The second being they use unarmed. The third being they don't ready a weapon until they strike with it...etc etc etc

MY samurai is sure as **** going with Trident or a Snaring bisento, depending on when I can get my hands on them. Monks should be punching folks, so they can use Coiling Serpent (fists are Snaring).

Two weapons is fun - enjoy being in Water stance all the time so you can keep drawing the buggers, and also for readying a weapon on the turn you want to strike with it - being in one stance all the time is certainly not exploitable at all. If they're BOTH readied, that's a 2 Opp cost instead of a 1 Opp cost, congrats, you've made my life slightly less easier, but not by much. Unarmed has its own problems unless you're giving your players an inordinate number of monks and shugenja to face.

13 hours ago, Soshi Saibankan said:

Im not sure how social intrigue works.

Let's say theres a debate implicating 5 courtiers but three main points of view. Do we battle on strife until everyone us Compromised or leaves except one or am I supposed to go for Momentum? How does these two ways interract with each other?

What I'd probably do is to get the various teams to declare a social objective of "Appeal to a group", with that group being everyone else. The required momentum would be the highest Focus of people requiring persuaded (if it's just the 5 courtiers, that would be everyone who doesn't agree with the point of view). Basically, the first 'team' to meet their Momentum target wins the debate. Being Compromised doesn't stop you from participating, just makes you significantly less useful. Some people might just want to get their opinion out there and stick to trying to gain Momentum points, whereas others might try to remove the opposition with things like Fanning the Flames and Prey on the Weak.

Does that help?

1 hour ago, Vutall said:

I have seen you two (JBento and Avatar111) complain and say so many things are broken in the system when in actual gameplay it isn't at all. And, a lot of the things you are complaining about as well are things that seem (and I don't mean this offensively, but I don't know a better term for it) incredibly munchkin-esque.

You're mainly correct here. The assumptions made in most cases are that actions take place in a void, and every roll will result kept 2+ success and 2+ opportunity. It won't be a productive discussion in regards to actual table play.

On 10/24/2018 at 9:19 AM, Avatar111 said:

your comments are always the best lol. but the school ability says "this round, and not this turn!".

so, unless we don't understand something that school ability is 1 free success if on a horse, or 2 in water stance. but then they say "to a maximum of your school rank".

so there is totally something we don't understand. or its just one of those "erratas" to come

Water stance requires the second action not share action types with the first... not more water Move+Move...

12 minutes ago, AK_Aramis said:

Water stance requires the second action not share action types with the first... not more water Move+Move...

the free 1 range band movement is not an action.

and if you take the maneuvre action without the fitness roll, you can definitely use water stance for double move and still attack (which is fair game).

regarding that Utaku school ability though, somebody was concerned about it yesterday but after review I think it is fine.

because you can decide to move 1 all the time, 2 with water stance, 1 more range band if you use Heartpiercing Strike technique, 1 more range band if you are in water stance and use 2opp during the attack (opps are spent/activated becefore you finalize the roll).

and the Utaku ability also work for "the whole round". there is definitely ways for you to go to +3, +4 successes. Mostly in water stance though, but thats fair.

25 minutes ago, ExplodingJoe said:

You're mainly correct here. The assumptions made in most cases are that actions take place in a void, and every roll will result kept 2+ success and 2+ opportunity. It won't be a productive discussion in regards to actual table play.

? yeah, thats why you can use 1opp with Coiling Serpent to make a weapon unable to attack for a full round. Even if you missed your attack. really does require a kick **** roll!

or that striking as air is mostly useless in its current iteration.

or that tetsubo is an awful weapon (but not as awful as a zanbato).

or that rushing avalanche kata being given as an option to hiruma scouts and matsu berserker doesnt make sense. and, won't mention that you can use rushing avalanche with your kiseru pipe but not with a bo staff.

or that your samurai can "challenge" a farmer or a shugenja during a skirmish and the poor guy just have to accept because the rule of who can be challenged or not don't exist (you have to make them up if you know the "lore" i guess). hopefully the DM put a bushi in every skirmish so they can jump in to save their ****. otherwise, free void point and strife to every enemies when you use challenge action.

or that 4-5 schools have in their curriculum "rank 1 kata" but also a "specified rank 1 kata" as an other option but nowhere does it say you can only take each option once, therefore making it redundant.

or that if you want to min-max your rings, you obviously need to make Void ring very high, nothing else matters. A void ring user is allowed to min-max, nobody else.

or that the duel mechanics really doesn't favor the characters that it should.

or that the void point spending to take a crit instead of fatigue is way too strong vs the big damage low crit weapons.

or other stuff i suppose. all these things are not related to huge dice rolls at all. that is the point. but then again, there are other threads that talk about lore and narrative stuff that i never partake in. because that is not what i'm here for. choose your battles, can't blame my style of play to have legit questions concerning the mechanical issues I have with the the game as is.

and, as I said multiple time; I love that game. But it needs more work.

1 minute ago, Avatar111 said:

the free 1 range band movement is not an action.

and if you take the maneuvre action without the fitness roll, you can definitely use water stance for double move and still attack (which is fair game).

regarding that Utaku school ability though, somebody was concerned about it yesterday but after review I think it is fine.

because you can decide to move 1 all the time, 2 with water stance, 1 more range band if you use Heartpiercing Strike technique, 1 more range band if you are in water stance and use 2opp during the attack (opps are spent/activated becefore you finalize the roll).

and the Utaku ability also work for "the whole round". there is definitely ways for you to go to +3, +4 successes. Mostly in water stance though, but thats fair.

1: there's no free movement in skirmish.

2: the move one is a no-roll option on the movement action; the move rolled is the other option.

See page 264 LC, § Maneuver, ¶1-5

3: this is why the move a range band opp spends in various techniques are so valuable.

10 minutes ago, AK_Aramis said:

1: there's no free movement in skirmish.

2: the move one is a no-roll option on the movement action; the move rolled is the other option.

See page 264 LC, § Maneuver, ¶1-5

3: this is why the move a range band opp spends in various techniques are so valuable.

will double check that, but i am pretty sure, that at the beginning of conflict chapter, it mentions about a free 1 range band movement that you can do at the beginning or end of your turn and that is not counted as an action.

10 minutes ago, Avatar111 said:

will double check that, but i am pretty sure, that at the beginning of conflict chapter, it takes about a free 1 range band movement that you can do at the beginning or end of your turn and that is not counted as an action.

You can, before or after an action (note the timing difference). Pg 262.

37 minutes ago, JBento said:

You can, before or after an action (note the timing difference). Pg 262.

I stand corrected.

Just now, AK_Aramis said:

I stand corrected.

It's the equivalent of the 5-ft step. It also means that you're not basically screwed if you're using a reach 2 weapon, though if it's Cumbersome you're still looking at a higher TN (which is appropriate).

2 hours ago, JBento said:

It's the equivalent of the 5-ft step. It also means that you're not basically screwed if you're using a reach 2 weapon, though if it's Cumbersome you're still looking at a higher TN (which is appropriate).

Not when using the grid rules- it becomes an 18 shaku=3 ken step... (each band is 3 grids movement...)

Mastering your composure is a job requirement for a samurai in Rokugan. And much like in real life, unless you are high up in the hierarchy or have some kind of leverage over your superiors, failing to meet job requirements can end up with loss of renumeration, removal of responsibilities, being given an out-of-the-way position where you can be ignored, a dismissal or a combination of those. You represent your family, your clan, your lord. If you paint them in a bad light often enough, consequences will follow. The GM roleplaying you superiors appropriately will ensure that.

When it comes to Unmasking, mechanically, that's a result of being Compromised. If your behaviour isn't the result of being Compromised, even if it is outwardly the same, it's not an Unmasking and shouldn't have any of the effects of an Unmasking. If you're having an emotional outburst because you're an unstable flake rather than because Strife has built up to the point where you can't master it anymore, that outburst doesn't affect your Strife. One doesn't have anything to do with the other in this case, so they shouldn't affect each other either. Nonetheless, any logical consequences of your behaviour still apply: people will still react to it after all, your inner turmoil or lack thereof doesn't change that.

If you're having an emotional outburst while not compromised, you're LYING about your emotional outburst. Losing your temper to the point of having an outburst is (one of the options for) what Compromised IS. If you think a certain situation should anger your character enough for them to become Compromised, the appropriate course of action is to tell your GM that and ask if you can receive enough ad hoc Strife to become Compromised and then Unmask.

37 minutes ago, JBento said:

If you're having an emotional outburst while not compromised, you're LYING about your emotional outburst. Losing your temper to the point of having an outburst is (one of the options for) what Compromised IS. If you think a certain situation should anger your character enough for them to become Compromised, the appropriate course of action is to tell your GM that and ask if you can receive enough ad hoc Strife to become Compromised and then Unmask.

Sure. In which case you *are* Compromised and may Unmask. That's all cromulent according to game mechanics. I was addressing players who choose to have their character have emotional outbursts that are not caused by built-up Strife, but rather by the character - voluntarily or not - not even trying to master their composure properly. The mechanics are pretty clear: you may Unmask if you're Compromised, and you become Compromised if you accumulate too much Strife. In other words: not enough Strife means not getting Compromised which means you can't Unmask. Players can choose to have their characters not trying to stay composed. I wouldn't call that lying, they're still having outbursts with all the social consequences outbursts can have. It has nothing to do with Strife/being Compromised/Unmasking though.

The penalties of an Unmask are typically either Glory Rank Glory or Honor Rank Honor... because the fundamental of whichever you pick is either shameful or an embarrassment.

I concur that "no on" no-self-control Samurai don't get the benefit of an unmask unless they are compromised...

... but the penalties are from the behavior triggered, not the unmask itself. And each of the unmasks is in fact a "bad act" in samurai culture.

The fundamental disconnect is players who neither care about not are willing to play to the social goals of samurai culture: conformity, proficiency, tenacity, and stoicism.

9 hours ago, Tonbo Karasu said:

What I'd probably do is to get the various teams to declare a social objective of "Appeal to a group", with that group being everyone else. The required momentum would be the highest Focus of people requiring persuaded (if it's just the 5 courtiers, that would be everyone who doesn't agree with the point of view). Basically, the first 'team' to meet their Momentum target wins the debate. Being Compromised doesn't stop you from participating, just makes you significantly less useful. Some people might just want to get their opinion out there and stick to trying to gain Momentum points, whereas others might try to remove the opposition with things like Fanning the Flames and Prey on the Weak.

Does that help?

Yes thank you

i guess you can build a team that can do both.