Would a technique that is both a attack and move action trigger the cumbersome quality on weapons?

Where did I read about 'perception checks'? Something about the target being higher or lower than your Focus, no roll needed?

Vigilance is your passive perception stat, and what sneaky types need to beat as a TN to get by you.

If you're looking for an active check, I would imagine that'd be a type of investigation. I might consider Water or Earth with Skullduggery or Tactics to perceive or remember the ideal places to hide/ambush in an area.

10 hours ago, Cryssk said:

Would a technique that is both a attack and move action trigger the cumbersome quality on weapons?

On the assumption that any technique which is a Move action involves you maneouvering in your environment, yes.

4 hours ago, ExplodingJoe said:

Vigilance is your passive perception stat, and what sneaky types need to beat as a TN to get by you.

If you're looking for an active check, I would imagine that'd be a type of investigation. I might consider Water or Earth with Skullduggery or Tactics to perceive or remember the ideal places to hide/ambush in an area.

Tactics would seem to be the better fit for general perception...

And Tactics [Water] is explicitly mentioned as "spot incoming threats" - which is the general case for most "general perception" checks. (p 124, lost eye).

(more fodder for the hidden rules thread...)

the technique "spinning blades style"

the base damage added from the opportunity, is that added to the total damage of the attack or separate?

51 minutes ago, AK_Aramis said:

Tactics would seem to be the better fit for general perception...

And Tactics [Water] is explicitly mentioned as "spot incoming threats" - which is the general case for most "general perception" checks. (p 124, lost eye).

(more fodder for the hidden rules thread...)

I just wanted to highlight some different approaches that would fly with me, though maybe at a higher TN. I'd someone skilled in Skullduggery a water check to see if they can recognize where they might hang out if they wanted to go unnoticed. I'd also allow a high TN Earth roll to allow characters to try to remember if they've come across a similar situation, and what was effective then.

1 hour ago, Cryssk said:

the technique "spinning blades style"

the base damage added from the opportunity, is that added to the total damage of the attack or separate?



It is a separate instance of damage dealt. Notice that the ability says to "inflict damage."

I probably missed the answer to this somewhere, but can you do other ring checks for attacks while in a different stance? Like, if I'm in Air stance, can I still Flowing Water Strike someone to the face and benefit from Crashing Wave Style? It feels... odd, if so.

Also, am I reading correctly that you don't need to hit, let alone damage, your target, to force them to check to Style conditions? If I Strike (Water) at someone and spend an opp, for instance, do they have to check for bleeding and damage even if I miss?

35 minutes ago, JBento said:

I probably missed the answer to this somewhere, but can you do other ring checks for attacks while in a different stance? Like, if I'm in Air stance, can I still Flowing Water Strike someone to the face and benefit from Crashing Wave Style? It feels... odd, if so.

Also, am I reading correctly that you don't need to hit, let alone damage, your target, to force them to check to Style conditions? If I Strike (Water) at someone and spend an opp, for instance, do they have to check for bleeding and damage even if I miss?

no and no

12 minutes ago, Avatar111 said:

no and no

Would you care to give me rules quotes on those? I agree that I shouldn't, but:

1) I can't seem to find anything on the first and

2) the styles are all "When you make a Martial Arts (Ring) check, you can spend OPP so the targets makes a check or takes condition and fatigue to the face." There's no mention of you PASSING the check.

47 minutes ago, JBento said:

I probably missed the answer to this somewhere, but can you do other ring checks for attacks while in a different stance? Like, if I'm in Air stance, can I still Flowing Water Strike someone to the face and benefit from Crashing Wave Style? It feels... odd, if so.

Also, am I reading correctly that you don't need to hit, let alone damage, your target, to force them to check to Style conditions? If I Strike (Water) at someone and spend an opp, for instance, do they have to check for bleeding and damage even if I miss?

You have to act within the ring selected for stance. Page 251 LC, § "Step 2: Set Stance", ¶4:

"In addition to determining which ring a character uses for the action they perform in Step 3: Perform Action and for any other checks they make while in that stance, each stance confers a passive benefit during a conflict, described in Table 6-1: Stances ."

Page 28, § "<Opp> as a descriptor" - explicitly limits opp spends to the ring used for the check. § "<opp" as a Narrative Tool" strongly implies same. That table 8–1 is broken down by action type and ring also strongly implies this.

For Beta participants, I cannot find anything explicitly allowing out of Ring spends at double cost... So... I suspect that's gone the way of the dodo.

Still, if one wants to allow it, the GM's permission is all that's actually required, and the double cost is a good guideline for out of ring spends.

2 minutes ago, AK_Aramis said:

You have to act within the ring selected for stance. Page 251 LC, § "Step 2: Set Stance", ¶4:

"In addition to determining which ring a character uses for the action they perform in Step 3: Perform Action and for any other checks they make while in that stance, each stance confers a passive benefit during a conflict, described in Table 6-1: Stances ."

Page 28, § "<Opp> as a descriptor" - explicitly limits opp spends to the ring used for the check. § "<opp" as a Narrative Tool" strongly implies same. That table 8–1 is broken down by action type and ring also strongly implies this.

For Beta participants, I cannot find anything explicitly allowing out of Ring spends at double cost... So... I suspect that's gone the way of the dodo.

Still, if one wants to allow it, the GM's permission is all that's actually required, and the double cost is a good guideline for out of ring spends.

Ah, that DOES solve number 1. Any thoughts on number 2?

2 minutes ago, JBento said:

Ah, that DOES solve number 1. Any thoughts on number 2?

Spending Opp to add bleeding is NOT a standard effect. That's an effect of crit with a razor edged weapon. Or of certain techniques. Most of which do specify when you succeed.

4 minutes ago, JBento said:

Ah, that DOES solve number 1. Any thoughts on number 2?

go read at the beginning of the technique chapter. read carefully. reread the book actually.

12 minutes ago, AK_Aramis said:

Spending Opp to add bleeding is NOT a standard effect. That's an effect of crit with a razor edged weapon. Or of certain techniques. Most of which do specify when you succeed.

Yes, I meant being in Water Stance and having Crashing Wave Style. The technique refers to making the check with no provision to whether you hit or miss, page 25 says Opp effects are independent of the check's success or failure.

I think all the Styles are missing "If you succeed" on their Opp expenditures, like Strike has.

5 minutes ago, JBento said:

Yes, I meant being in Water Stance and having Crashing Wave Style. The technique refers to making the check with no provision to whether you hit or miss, page 25 says Opp effects are independent of the check's success or failure.

yup, I see what you mean. as written, it works. you can miss your strike but still spend opportunity to activate this effect.

i don't know if i want to laugh or throw up.

Just now, Avatar111 said:

yup, I see what you mean. I really think it should NOT work and should be on a successful melee/ranged/unarmed check, but hey, this game as is... is a mess. we can fanboy defend it as we want... the reality is, it was made by people who never designed pen&paper rulesets and not tested enough.

it needs a reprint. its to that extent.

I ALSO think it should not work, unless "I wave my blade really fast in front of you and the wind itself cuts your face, you son of a dishonourable dog" is the style you're going for, but I can't find the rule that says it doesn't.

This thread is making me really grateful for Exalted’s ‘Orichalcum Rule:’ If a given rules interaction produces results that are narratively incoherent or nonsensical, discard the rule and go for a GM ruling on the spot.

Saves so much effort.

Just now, Lindhrive said:

This thread is making me really grateful for Exalted’s ‘Orichalcum Rule:’ If a given rules interaction produces results that are narratively incoherent or nonsensical, discard the rule and go for a GM ruling on the spot.

Saves so much effort.

In this case, it isn't a rules interaction, it's the ACTUAL rule. I'm HOPING there's a rules interaction somewhere that says it isn't (or that I'm misreading something).

51 minutes ago, Avatar111 said:

yup, I see what you mean. as written, it works. you can miss your strike but still spend opportunity to activate this effect.

i don't know if i want to laugh or throw up.

You know, there is very little if any ways to seriously break this game. I'm guessing Crashing Waves was an oversight and needed the "If successful" verbiage. Not sure why you have such a strong reaction. The rules are pretty darn solid. Only other thing that has been an oversight is the Ide Trader making selling things harder.

52 minutes ago, JBento said:

I ALSO think it should not work, unless "I wave my blade really fast in front of you and the wind itself cuts your face, you son of a dishonourable dog" is the style you're going for, but I can't find the rule that says it doesn't.

you know what.. it is a rank 4 technique. and it obviously works. same as "striking as air" works even if you miss.

so yeah, if you use water stance, you basically can "I wave my blade really fast in front of you and the wind itself cuts your face, you son of a dishonourable dog" and that whether you hit or miss, and that, everytime you use a martial(water) check.

i'm sorry for unmasking lol. it is becoming hard to see what is intended or what is not!

3 minutes ago, Avatar111 said:

i'm sorry for unmasking lol. it is becoming hard to see what is intended or what is not!

Well, at least you're no longer compromised and can't be finishing blow'd. ?

3 minutes ago, Vutall said:

You know, there is very little if any ways to seriously break this game. I'm guessing Crashing Waves was an oversight and needed the "If successful" verbiage. Not sure why you have such a strong reaction. The rules are pretty darn solid. Only other thing that has been an oversight is the Ide Trader making selling things harder.

my reaction was too strong, I unmasked, lost some honor/glory, all cool now

but the book does have lots of unclear/uncertain/broken rules.

in the case of Crashing Wave, it is intented to work that way, as all other rank 4 kata that work similarly have the same deal. so we just need to assume that at rank 4 you are super sayan and can do all this whether you hit or miss. like "iron in the mountain" proning all the time etc.... and all of them are resisted with a Fitness check.

Fitness is overall really strong in this game. Without it you can't really expect to fight in a weapon skirmish.

3 minutes ago, JBento said:

Well, at least you're no longer compromised and can't be finishing blow'd. ?

unmasking also trigger finishing blow. so please, don't do it