I like the idea of their shtick being basing everything on calculates. Give the ability above to all of them with the addition of being able to spend allies calculates as their own, then give unique abilities or a slot for software upgrades to allow e.g. spending a calc to do a roll or boost as an action, spending 2 to reroll as if with a lock, etc.

4 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

I like the idea of their shtick being basing everything on calculates. Give the ability above to all of them with the addition of being able to spend allies calculates as their own, then give unique abilities or a slot for software upgrades to allow e.g. spending a calc to do a roll or boost as an action, spending 2 to reroll as if with a lock, etc.

OH WOW. I hadn't even thought of that. Specific upgrade cards and slots for Droid ships. That's a fantastic idea

I 100% stole it, and I'm sure the designers have had the same idea.

I like the idea of them all being identical base ships but being customisable with a separate slot(s) for software and hardware upgrades.

Just now, thespaceinvader said:

I 100% stole it, and I'm sure the designers have had the same idea.

I like the idea of them all being identical base ships but being customisable with a separate slot(s) for software and hardware upgrades.

hey man, that's fine by me. Credit goes somewhere as long as I get my Vultures.

The software upgrades would not have to be a unique slot. They could be in Modification or Sensor but require that you have Calculate. That way, other factions get some new stuff to play with as well. I realize they could add the "software" slot to existing ships as well if it was added to the game, but just a thought for an alternative method to get it out there.

I really like the Calculate while Stressed idea. I do not like the "no blues" idea, though the self-ionization to get out of it is amusing. Maybe they have very few blues or only one (straight 1 or 2 for example).

Ultimately, I hope that FFG does something really unique and interesting here but I kind of honestly expect them to be mostly TIE fighters with Calculate and Boost.

11 minutes ago, CaptainIxidor said:

The software upgrades would not have to be a unique slot. They could be in Modification or Sensor but require that you have Calculate. That way, other factions get some new stuff to play with as well. I realize they could add the "software" slot to existing ships as well if it was added to the game, but just a thought for an alternative method to get it out there.

I really like the Calculate while Stressed idea. I do not like the "no blues" idea, though the self-ionization to get out of it is amusing. Maybe they have very few blues or only one (straight 1 or 2 for example).

Ultimately, I hope that FFG does something really unique and interesting here but I kind of honestly expect them to be mostly TIE fighters with Calculate and Boost.

I agree that modification could just be the slot they decide to use. Would definitely allow other ships to take advantage of the concept. I think I agree with you on the no blues, maybe only 1 and 2 straights would be blue. Sadly i feel like you're right, they'll be generic and boring. But hopefully FFg doesn't break my poor heart.

45 minutes ago, WAC47 said:

Oh yeah. I never said it’d be a GOOD idea. It was more a thought experiment than a serious suggestion. I liked the idea of breaking the 8-ship cap for the CIS but only if there was a severe restriction on it, because setting 10 dials would get mind-melting.

It would be a fun flying challenge if nothing else.

I believe the new rule book for tourneys state

a 2 to 8 ship squad

for competition.

That means they could cost the Vultures SUPER cheap and still not worry about breaking their 8 ships a player cap.

3 minutes ago, Bucknife said:

I believe the new rule book for tourneys state

a 2 to 8 ship squad

for competition.

That means they could cost the Vultures SUPER cheap and still not worry about breaking their 8 ships a player cap.

True. Rules can be revised but since it’s not currently possible to fit 9 ships (right?) this makes me think something cheap is coming down the pipeline.

I also just wanted to pop in and say once again that I hate the idea of multi-ship sprues for XWTMG. It's great for Armada because it represents squadrons well. A-wings are not that much bigger than Vultures (depending on if you use the film scale or one of the various written scales).

My take on droid swarms would be to introduce the concept of variable base size during the game, such that a large base holds 3, and as each one is destroyed the base size reduces by placing a movement template in the front guides and swapping for the next size down (i.e. medium base when you have 2 left, small base for the last survivor).

The ships would then all move together, but attack individually with the restriction that they must each attack the same target until it is destroyed.

You could represent the droids synergy by having all ships in a swarm sharing all abilities, but not allowing all upgrades be stacked on a single ship, and allow the defender to decide in what order they are removed...

3 hours ago, ricoratso said:

For example, Vulture droids can have two generic pilots. One for when they were being controlled by a Lucrehulk and one for when they were being independently controlled by droid AI. I'm thinking PS1 for the former and PS2 for the latter. I think their stat lineup should be 3/3/3/0. Although these stats aren't incredible, the dial and actions should definitely be able to makeup for that. Their actions should be white calculate, white boost, white barrel roll, and white coordinate (because it's canon that Vulture droids chatter with each other). For the dial, I'm not sure how to express that here but it would be very fast and would likely have very little red maneuvers. Seeing as we have absolutely zero unique pilots they can have a really solid chassis with lots of slots.

For the PS1 Vulture, I would recommend a torpedo slot, a missile slot, and maybe a modification.

For the PS2 Vulture, I would recommend a torpedo slot, a missile slot, a sensor slot, and maybe a modification.

Currently in the game, Academy pilots for the Empire are 23 points meaning completely unkitted, you can run a list of 8 with 16 points leftover. I believe that PS1 Vulture droids should be less than that at 20 points allowing for an unkitted list of 10 ships. Similarly, Obsidian Squadron Pilot costs 24 and can be reduced to 22 for the PS2 Vulture droids allowing for a unkitted list of 9 ships.

So I'm surprised that you think the vulture droid stat lines would be 3/3/3/0 and yet would cost less than a tie fighter by 3 points with a stat line of 2/3/3/0, unless the dial was absolute garbage for the vulture droids, there is no way that ffg would go with this, especially if they had a torpedo and a missile slot above and beyond the tie fighters. I would think the price would be closer to a generic Tie interceptor at 34 points, assuming the dial was worse you could maybe scrape by in the high 20s but certainly not 20 points flat. Action wise compared to Tie fighters they also would have coordinate and boost while only losing focus for calculate, again much closer to a tie interceptor. Those are all points issues but on top of this these ships are also supposed to be a little outdated so I could see ffg making their stats something along the lines of 2/2/3/0, then you could add other slots/actions and still cost them around the same as a Tie fighter or give them something like just barrel roll and calculate and cost them less than a tie fighter if they wanted to allow for 9 or 10 in a list. As for the coordinate I think ffg would want to stay away from this kind of thing, so far this action has been mostly reserved for command ships and although the droids do talk to each other human and alien pilots also talk to each other over the radio but do not have the calculate action. Instead perhaps they could have some sort of ship ability to do with passing calculate tokens to represent the chatter. Anyway I'll be interested to see what the design settles on as there are a lot of interesting things they could do with droid ships.

With a silhouette even smaller than an A-Wing, and being a droid and able to execute manuevers that would drive a living pilot bonkers, I can't see these guys with any less than 3 agility.

2/3/2/0

The ONLY way I'm okay with more than 2 primary attack on these, is Floatilla mechanics.

The ONLY way I'm okay with less than 3 agility, is Floatilla mechanics.

The ONLY way I'm okay with MORE than 2hp on these, again, is Floatilla mechanics.

2 minutes ago, Bucknife said:

With a silhouette even smaller than an A-Wing, and being a droid and able to execute manuevers that would drive a living pilot bonkers, I can't see these guys with any less than 3 agility.

2/3/2/0

Yeah I could see them going with that stat-line too

I seriously doubt they'll go under 3 HP but if they are cheaper than TIE/ln then maybe.

For Vultures I still want to see them be a large base 4/1/4/0.

Special ship rules galore:

When you would suffer any amount of damage, cancel all the damage and instead suffer 1 [hit].

When you are dealt a damage card, reduce your attack by 1 and increase your agility by 1.

And stick 4 ships on the base, armada style.

3 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

For Vultures I still want to see them be a large base 4/1/4/0.

Special ship rules galore:

When you would suffer any amount of damage, cancel all the damage and instead suffer 1 [hit].

When you are dealt a damage card, reduce your attack by 1 and increase your agility by 1.

And stick 4 ships on the base, armada style.

That seems cool too, not sure they'll go with that but I wouldn't be against it if it's done well.

Going off of that, you might want to do something to prevent crit flipping shenanigans like Thane, otherwise you'd have to come up with a new damage deck that could have something like "disrupted formation", "Blinded sensor net", etc. . Could make the only actions calculate and target lock or something like that, then when you calculate gain a number of calculate tokens equal to your current hull

Calc token sharing as ship ability on all or a red coordinate ability with ships of same type (vultures with vultures, Tri's with Tri's, etc.)

Vulture driod: 2/3/2/0, missile, sensor (with calc dependent upgrades), mod. K-fighter dial or simmilar. Calc, lock, b-roll, boost.

Tri-fighter: 3/3/2/0, missile, cannon, sensor (as vulture), mod. Calc>red lock, lock, b-roll>red calc, boost>red calc. Scyk or Tie/IN dial.

Hyena: 2/2/4/0, 2x missile, 1x torp, 2x device, sensor (as vulture), mod. Calc, Lock, Red Boost or B-roll. Scurrg dial.

6 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

For Vultures I still want to see them be a large base 4/1/4/0.

Special ship rules galore:

When you would suffer any amount of damage, cancel all the damage and instead suffer 1 [hit].

When you are dealt a damage card, reduce your attack by 1 and increase your agility by 1.

And stick 4 ships on the base, armada style.

Only if they do the same to A-Wings, TIE/LNs and Scyks, retro ban the single model bases and add a - modfier to damage against large bases... You can flush that idea otherwise. Vultures are the same length as TIE Fighters...

7 minutes ago, Hiemfire said:

Calc token sharing as ship ability on all or a red coordinate ability with ships of same type (vultures with vultures, Tri's with Tri's, etc.)

Vulture driod: 2/3/2/0, missile, sensor (with calc dependent upgrades), mod. K-fighter dial or simmilar. Calc, lock, b-roll, boost.

Tri-fighter: 3/3/2/0, missile, cannon, sensor (as vulture), mod. Calc>red lock , lock, b-roll>red calc, boost>red calc. Scyk or Tie/IN dial.

Hyena: 2/2/4/0, 2x missile, 1x torp, 2x device, sensor (as vulture), mod. Calc, Lock, Red Boost or B-roll. Scurrg dial.

Yeah those stats seem fine as long as they price them appropriately, can't see them giving Tri-fighters Calculate into Red lock as they've been trying to stay away from focus/calculate into locks in linked actions as it gives the generics a lot of offensive action economy. If they're trying to push it offensively though who knows.

19 minutes ago, agenttherock said:

That seems cool too, not sure they'll go with that but I wouldn't be against it if it's done well.

Going off of that, you might want to do something to prevent crit flipping shenanigans like Thane, otherwise you'd have to come up with a new damage deck that could have something like "disrupted formation", "Blinded sensor net", etc. . Could make the only actions calculate and target lock or something like that, then when you calculate gain a number of calculate tokens equal to your current hull

I wouldn't mind crit flipping silliness tbh, but I'd probably add somethign about their cards being flipped down without effect if flipped up.

36 minutes ago, Hiemfire said:

Only if they do the same to A-Wings, TIE/LNs and Scyks, retro ban the single model bases and add a - modfier to damage against large bases... You can flush that idea otherwise. Vultures are the same length as TIE Fighters...

Or, like, not.

Things can be more than one thing.

3 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

Or, like, not.

Things can be more than one thing.

I'm so confused.

1 hour ago, agenttherock said:

Yeah those stats seem fine as long as they price them appropriately, can't see them giving Tri-fighters Calculate into Red lock as they've been trying to stay away from focus/calculate into locks in linked actions as it gives the generics a lot of offensive action economy. If they're trying to push it offensively though who knows.

I see your point. Dropping the linked lock from Calculate would be fine as well.

i don't like the idea of flotilla stuff in X-wing. leave it in armada.

however, as the ship is so small, perhaps they can package 2 Vulture Droid fighters in the same package and price point as an X-wing. making it easier to set up a proper swarm.

given that the Clone Wars show has the droids operating independently fro ma control ship, and even having personalities, i can see them having to deal with stress. (which really, is just a case of having to devote your attention to flying and away from anything else.. something that droids would be vulnerable to just as much as organic pilots)

however i could see them having fewer red maneuvers on their dial in general.

If the Droid Starfighters have a white dial entirely it would be interesting to see them having a ship ability like Overclocked Systems that causes them to take Ion tokens instead of stress tokens, something that would mess with them the following turn since they would be actionless. And with a full white dial they could balance it by having the craft have some red actions which means the player has to figure out when to chance those actions.