I was playing at my LGS tonight against two Punishers and a Lambda. While I was flying two arcs and an X-Wing. I got my clocked clean in 45 minutes. That got me and my group talking, that Rebels are overpriced. A well suited punisher can be put together for about the cost of a naked Arc-170. What do you guys think? Imperials seem low cost and Rebels need a major price adjustment. What do you guys think?

Another FFG botch as always?

I can fly a 4 X Wing squadron with 3 named pilots, and room for some upgrades/droids. That doesn't sound overcosted to me

16 minutes ago, Rat of Vengence said:

I can fly a 4 X Wing squadron with 3 named pilots, and room for some upgrades/droids. That doesn't sound overcosted to me

That's one correctly priced ship, man, not a faction.

As a dedicated Rebel player, I feel like most of the ships are just about where they need to be price wise. There are a few that could use some adjustments, but that can be said about all 3 factions right now.

the ARC is about 4-5 points over costed, but then you get things like Luke,Wedge and Sabine which are all undercosted

25 minutes ago, Zura said:

That's one correctly priced ship, man, not a faction.

It's an example. If someone is going to say a whole faction is overcosted, don't be surprised when people give examples to suggest that it's too early to panic just yet. Again.

Yeah, the example given isn't very illustrative. It's generally accepted in the community that TIE punishers are very good for their cost, perhaps the most efficient Imperial ship next to the TIE bomber. And the Lambda is no pushover either. While it could be argued that the Rebels, specifically Arcs, are over costed, it's just as likely that TIE punishers may be under costed.

I must add that flying matters so much! The first time I flew against punishers with my Sloane Strikers, I got bombed and blasted in short order. We had a rematch, and I managed to beat him. And beat him again. Now my buddy says Sloane is over costed NPE, so I guess it depends on your point of view. What I'm trying to say is that one horrible loss can teach you a lot if you ask the right questions.

Norra is 55pts vs Redline’s 44pts. Both are I5 and have some pretty sweet upgrade combo options. Norra can run gunner, droid and crew. Redline Sensor and Bomb (though I personally still prefer Advanced Sensors and Torps).

They both have very good efficiency upgrades. Norra is defensive whole Redline is all offence.

The difference is that Norra is packing 3 Forward and 2 Back whole Redline has to buy a weapon. Redline is more like 53pts for a 4 Forward twice before reload. Still no rear arc.

They are pretty close. It might be better to look at Norra compared to a Lambda though. The Lambda dial is terrible and the highest value pilot is 48 which is 7 lower than an ARC. Does Norra have 7 more points worth of value than a Lambda from having a better dial and being a medium base?

That is hard to gauge. Redline is pretty good, ARC Norra is probably not quite there. Jendon and Sai feel like they should cost more than Kagi.

Also, don’t joust 2 Punishers and a Lambda.

1 hour ago, Parakitor said:

Yeah, the example given isn't very illustrative. It's generally accepted in the community that TIE punishers are very good for their cost, perhaps the most efficient Imperial ship next to the TIE bomber. And the Lambda is no pushover either. While it could be argued that the Rebels, specifically Arcs, are over costed, it's just as likely that TIE punishers may be under costed.

I must add that flying matters so much! The first time I flew against punishers with my Sloane Strikers, I got bombed and blasted in short order. We had a rematch, and I managed to beat him. And beat him again. Now my buddy says Sloane is over costed NPE, so I guess it depends on your point of view. What I'm trying to say is that one horrible loss can teach you a lot if you ask the right questions.

what He said.

The bigger ships are, imo.

Playing the comparison game: Dash is 20 points more than Boba, with the same Initiative, Hull, Shield, and Defense values. Both have two arcs, but Dash gets one more die and the rotate action, but no bonus at range one (and the nigh-mandatory Outrider is another 14 points.) Boba is a medium base, but Dash has a powerful ability.

The Rebel 1300 doesn't seem to be seeing much play, aside from Lando because of his baked-in PtL.

It feels like FFG intentionally erred on the side of caution with the fat turrets.

This subject has already been investigated a lot. The overall though is that if the faction look underperforming it's probably because it is the faction that relate the most on pilot/upgrades synergy's and combo and so, suffer more from the lack of upgrades in early V2.

A whole faction is certainly not overpriced, but some ships probably are, as for all factions.

Fear the re-release of the B and the arc, with appropriat upgrades, they will be terrors.

Y-Wings sure ain't, hahahaha.

Yeah, Arc-170 are slightly over priced. X-wings, Y-wings and the generic Ghost are very good value imo.

The other week I flew 4 generic X-wings and 1 Y-wing. Absolutely wiped the floor with the opponent.

A friend of mine has, for a long time, used a list with 2 ARCs and Roark Garnet in a Moldy Crow. This is even more terrifying now with ARCs getting access to so many options (droid, crew, gunner). It's hard to see them as overpriced. ARCs are also very different ships than Punishers - comparing them is silly. "They're both medium bases so they must be compared head to head" is ridiculous. ARCs can still do plenty of damage, as can any rebel list. Yes, Imps and Scum have some interesting tools available, but so do Rebs! There's SO much to explore with 2.0 and flying really does matter now.

I just mentioned this in another post - how about we start discussing tactics that work vs certain types of lists instead of just jumping to "I lost, so the points must be wrong"?

ARCs are not very good right now.

to be fair, you flew two of probably the weaker (not weakest, but close) rebel ships against two of arguably the best imperial ships atm.

Punishers are good, ARCs suck atm. I havnt seen an ARC even remotely be a threat right now and ive seen them on the table quite a bit.

ARCs suffer due to the lack of good (affordable) Rebel crew and non-turret gunners.

Rebels are very weak right now. Maybe 2 or 3 good pilots in the whole faction.

Thats a valid point, rebel crew kinda blow atm and gunner is virtually a turret-augment slot right now.

Xwings are basically carrying the rebellion ATM, just like in EP IV

Which is a slight issue for some, as I've never seen an upgrade more under utilized thsn Servomotors

With proper use, you'll easily dance around a lambda and trajectory Sims

Plus, with the popularity of Initiative 5 (redline, whisper, boba, Guri etc) it's kinda hard to not pick wedge. Very economical, flexible with motors, and -green dice baby!

Though I must mention Sabine shuttle (basically the best cheap "xwing") and Moldy Crow (just **** good) as other great building blocks

Been an ARC flier for a long time.

Happy that I can get my tail Gunner and still have a slot for some supportive crew.

Kinda hard to justify more than a single ARC in a squad right now with the utility of Y's and efficiency of X's.

11 hours ago, Rat of Vengence said:

Is this something from 40k? What is this?

2 hours ago, eMeM said:

ARCs suffer due to the lack of good (affordable) Rebel crew and non-turret gunners.

Yeah, I don't understand why Hotshot Gunner was locked to the mobile arc indicator. That would have been great to have as at least an option on the ARC. Right now, it's Tail gunner or nothing.

So I've now got about 25 games under my belt with Rebels, including some tournament games. The ships that have been performing well so far are T-65s, Arc-170 (Norra), Attack Shuttle (Sabine), Sheathipede and Moldy Crow. These are not in the same list, mind you, though it seems the Rebel players at Coruscant came to the conclusions as me and a lot of players just shoved those ships into one list. I've gotten middling performance from K-Wings, Z-95s, Auzituck, and both YTs (decent but came up short against the best stuff the other factions have to offer).

I have not been impressed by A-Wings and E-Wings, though I have a new 5 A-wing list led by Arvel that has Intimidation and homing missiles on every ship that I'm keen to try out. I've only flown the Ghost once and it did well, but it was in a 4-ship synergy list that was designed around giving the Ghost 3 actions and 5 atk dice and having 2 other 3-dice modified attacks, but I think outside of that kind of wombo-combo list the Ghost is pretty bad, especially the named pilots and if you're trying to do stuff with docking or give it extra attacks or whatever. I have yet to try B-Wings, U-Wing or Y-Wings, the latter 2 aren't really my flavor and I'm waiting for 2 B-Wing dials to come in so I can try out a 4 B-Wing list.

I think Rebels are much harder to list build for, they have good combinations available but they're not as obvious as Jonus+TIE Bombers with Barrage Rockets or Vader with Supernatural or Phantoms with Juke or Redline with Traj Sim and Protons. The Imperial lists pretty much build themselves, so right now I think it's harder to be a rebel player just because the other factions kind of have a headstart on what their best combinations are and Rebels are still a puzzle that's being figured out.

I think some of them definitely are. Most of the large base and medium based pilots seem over-costed right now for Rebels, especially the ones with 0 or 1 agility, though. I'd say at the very least that the Ghost (and the Decimator) need to come down in cost). There's also a part of me that's quite unsure about this but wonders if the old version of Reinforce should exist but ONLY for ships with 0 agility or maybe ONLY when rolling 0 defense dice. But probably no, let's not.

X-Wings seem costed just fine. Y-Wing seems costed just fine. Maybe the issue is that ships that have actual releases are costed mostly appropriately but ones that are only in conversion kits are not? Then again, TIE Advanced feels pretty weak for its investment (not Rebels but another released expansion ship).

Some of them just need more options in upgrades. The A-wing is probably appropriately costed but not having much in the way of slot options hurts it. Then again, Modification is probably the only other slot that makes sense (unless they give it a second Talent like in 1st edition) but that has nothing really work taking outside of Afterburners at the moment.

ARc-170 feels like it should be more in line with X-Wings or maybe just 1 point more for most Initiatives. Yes, they have more HP and the rear attack arc but their dial limits them quite a bit, I feel. I think B-Wing should be cheaper than an X-wing, for similar reasons, but again, maybe only 1 point less for similar Initiatives. Wookie gunship should probably come down as well but I've got less experience with those so I'm uncertain.