2 hours ago, Black_Rabbit_Inle said:

Meh.. maybe the scorpion will get a Bushi school in the crane/courtier book.. Honestly, I still think the scorps haven't gotten a Bushi school because all of their bushi will be dead after the coup, and are spending the pre-coup time period in preparation (though they don't know what they're preparing for). That's what's happening in my story anyway.

I'm not at all sure there will be a Scorpion Clan Coup in the FFG timeline.

4 hours ago, nameless ronin said:

I'm not at all sure there will be a Scorpion Clan Coup in the FFG timeline.

neither am I, but at this point I'm convinced the lack of scorpion Bushi has to be planned.

23 minutes ago, Black_Rabbit_Inle said:

neither am I, but at this point I'm convinced the lack of scorpion Bushi has to be planned.

if it wasn't, it is now. so we can definitely expect to see a scorpion bushi in the next book or the one after. it is one of the most popular thread on this forum.

edit: and, considering how vague and slightly screwed up their duelling rules are and how many people had question marks about it. I expect it to be taken care of in Courts of Stone.

2 hours ago, Black_Rabbit_Inle said:

neither am I, but at this point I'm convinced the lack of scorpion Bushi has to be planned.

2 hours ago, Avatar111 said:

if it wasn't, it is now. so we can definitely expect to see a scorpion bushi in the next book or the one after. it is one of the most popular thread on this forum.

I doubt it was planned and I doubt that if there's a Scorpion bushi school planned for the next book the comments on this forum have anything to do with that.

Whether there's an upcoming event in Rokugan that takes out the majority of the Scorpion bushi (but not any other Scorpion?) or not, and that's another thing I doubt, the situation as is in the setting now and has been since the release of the core book is that Scorpion demographics are normal so they have a lot of bushi. "We won't need them a year after the release of the game if every group out there sticks with our timeline" is an insane argument.

As for forum threads carrying any weight, I don't see the lack of a Scorpion bushi school stopping anyone from buying the game. It's also something that could have been solved in either of the two released sourcebooks or even via a downloadable document if they felt it mattered.

Retail reported that L5R was #2 selling last quarter under D&D so obviously sales are healthy. If it was an urgent concern, I concur they could have just mantis'd it, but I'm guessing it's in the production schedule already. Considering we're pretty aggressively publishing at this point (compare to Genesys), there's probably a bit of backlog "written" which is now being queued to publish by manufacturing, marketing, etc.

6 hours ago, nameless ronin said:

Whether there's an upcoming event in Rokugan that takes out the majority of the Scorpion bushi (but not any other Scorpion?) or not, and that's another thing I doubt, the situation as is in the setting now and has been since the release of the core book is that Scorpion demographics are normal so they have a lot of bushi. "We won't need them a year after the release of the game if every group out there sticks with our timeline" is an insane argument.

As for forum threads carrying any weight, I don't see the lack of a Scorpion bushi school stopping anyone from buying the game. It's also something that could have been solved in either of the two released sourcebooks or even via a downloadable document if they felt it mattered.

I'm really joking about whether the Bushi school missing is planned.. but at this point that excuse seems as plausible as "they just don't care". I could also argue that the Daidoji school is actually the Scorpion school in disguise. When I've mentioned the coup in past posts in this thread, I mentioned that the scorpion Bushi are singled out because they can't hide like the shinobi and they can't charm/blackmail people into helping them like the courtiers do. If the coup actually played out the same as in old lore, the scorpion bushi would either die in the coup or be exiled. (but I don't think the coup is going to play out the same way, if it happens at all).

Honestly though, since the Bayushi manipulator school is already in the core rules, I actually could see the Bayushi Bushi school being in the courts of stone. They may not be as skilled Yojimbo as the Daidoji or Shiba, but they would still fill that role for their clan. Though the Bayushi magistrate may be even more appropriate for that book.. I'm assuming that would be tagged as Bushi, Courtier.

On 3/23/2019 at 10:37 PM, Shiba Gunichi said:

Meanwhile the friggin' Yogo get two schools before the Scorpion have an in-clan bushi? BAH.

Right?! I mean, I haven't seen the new Yogo on paper yet, but that family has exactly one shtick historically, and the core book covered that (arguably also Kuroiban but that's just as much a Soshi thing, if not more still fulfilled by ward masters [edit: heh, derped on my facts]).

I know we're not owed anything, and I expect nothing, but after seeing Yogo getting the first additional school, I would love an RPG Q&A.

Double-post

27 minutes ago, Bayushi Tsubaki said:

Right?! I mean, I haven't seen the new Yogo on paper yet, but that family has exactly one shtick historically, and the core book covered that (arguably also Kuroiban but that's just as much a Soshi thing, if not more still fulfilled by ward masters [edit: heh, derped on my facts]).

Yes, the Kuroiban which, incidentally, would have fit rather well in a book on the Shadowlands, Taint, and all that stuff 😛 I mean, the pokemon master is cool, but... what?

2 hours ago, Black_Rabbit_Inle said:

I'm really joking about whether the Bushi school missing is planned.. but at this point that excuse seems as plausible as "they just don't care"

I don't know... the latter is quite plausible if you add "as long as the sales are good"... But in all seriousness, the most optimistic view I can muster is that they have that school planned, know when they want to release it, and it just happens to be later.

2 hours ago, Black_Rabbit_Inle said:

Though the Bayushi magistrate may be even more appropriate for that book

I recall the main Scorpion magistrate school in Old 5R was the Soshi magistrate. Really cool school. But it would be odd to say the least to see it before the regular Bayushi bushi...

To be fair FFG is introducing Deer clan in courts of stone rather than Fox clan.. clearly they're not interested in common sense.

Okay.. maybe that's a little harsh, but how does the only minor clan to ever host the emperor (on two occasions) and the minor clan which represents all other minor clans in the imperial court.. oh.. and BTW a minor clan that uses a lot of earth magic.. NOT get to be the minor clan that's highlighted in the Courts of stone.. which one assumes is all about courts, and stone. Did FFG just forget that they already have a minor clan of shugenja who are politically active and super stealthy/deceptive, but are pretty good at keeping the natural order of things? Nah.. Friggin' FFG is probably just gonna look at the Fox as being another crumby part of Mantis clan.. which is literally what caused me to stop playing the Fox and Yoritomo's alliance in the first place. I mean the Fox joining mantis clan literally annoyed me more than spider clan did.

Hmm.. well.. I guess I should spare others from my (slightly off-topic) rant..

At any rate, having just read through the courts of stone description they mention ninjas and shinobi a lot, which leads me to believe there will be a Scorpion shinobi/bushi (Bayushi Saboteur?) school and probably Daidoji Harriers and/or Ikoma Lion's Shadow. @Franwax is correct that the scorpion magistrate school is a soshi school. I also just found out there is a Bayushi dueling school (Bayushi defender) which might be appropriate.

4 hours ago, Black_Rabbit_Inle said:

When I've mentioned the coup in past posts in this thread, I mentioned that the scorpion Bushi are singled out because they can't hide like the shinobi and they can't charm/blackmail people into helping them like the courtiers do. If the coup actually played out the same as in old lore, the scorpion bushi would either die in the coup or be exiled. (but I don't think the coup is going to play out the same way, if it happens at all).

3

Here is my take, for what it's worth:

While the Scorpions' actual, full-time Shinobi fared best, the rest of them were not murdered en masse ( although many likely were, the rest of the Empire had centuries of grievances to avenge ). Many went into hiding, posing as samurai of other clans, peasants, ronin, bandits, etc... Because the real ninja of the Scorpion clan aren't ninja at all and one does not need to carry the Shinobi tag to be an effective spy or hide in plain sight. The real Scorpion ninja are the courtiers, the bushi, the diplomats, the courtesans. Every Scorpion is a ninja and no Scorpion are ninja.

The Scorpion do indeed have Actors, Infiltrators, even ninja Shugenja that function primarily as Shinobi. But these are not their only covert agents, nor are they necessarily their most effective.

Actors are deep cover spies. As such, their usage in a standard game is more gimmicky than anything, and tends to be difficult to work into any mixed group unless the group is what's being infiltrated. We have done exactly that once. In the setting, I find them exceedingly rare. I figure the school has only a handful of students at any given time. They are probably all aware of each other on some level from their education, but have zero contact and would not recognize one another.

Most of the time, Infiltrators spend their non-Infiltratey time posing as farmers, laborers, tradesmen, merchants, ashigaru and even eta or courtesans ( geisha ninja are more likely to be Actors, IMO ). They are guerrilla fighters, hitmen, scouts, disposable spies and so on, but due to their need to not be seen, even when operating openly, they do not often pose as samurai. After all, a trained swordsman would be able to tell if you were actually trained as a Scorpion Bushi (well, in a setting that has a distinct Scorpion style, that is), and that makes posing as one a bit of an unnecessary risk. In my games, most Infiltrators are not even Samurai by caste.

The ninja Shugenja school from what, 3rd Edition? That one seems very specialized, probably kept in the Clan most of the time and deployed only when necessary, like a magical JSOC operator or Treadstone agent. Really, most of these are probably Secret Service/NSA types.

Most 'ninja' are not schooled as ninja at all ( at least in my games, no idea if it's canon but... ). Many Scorpion will be called on to do things that we think of as things a ninja would do: poison people, steal a critical missive and deliver it to Agent X, gain the confidence of Y and let Z know what they learn, simply report back on seemingly innocuous conversations or the movements of certain people...whether Bushi or Courtier, most Scorpion samurai spend at least some time functioning as shinobi or ninja.

So most Scorpion privileged enough to have gone to the main schools for Bushi, enough to learn the techniques, are also competent and capable as courtiers, spies, and assassins. They are not the best swordsmen, the best spies, the best courtiers, but they have enough schooling and skill to function in any of those roles competently when called upon. I guess this is my long-winded way of saying that I think Scorpion bushi are perfectly capable of going to ground after the Coup and surviving. We did it in more than one game at my table and it not only worked, but it was incredibly fun.

The Scorpion are a massive intelligence and counter-intelligence organization, one uniquely suited to the vagaries of feudal imperial society and a world rife with the supernatural. Their pragmatism means that they leverage everything they have to get the job done and that means that every single Scorpion, no matter how lowly and no matter how exalted, may operate as a ninja at some point in his or her life. I would bet that most never do, at least not in a way they or anyone else would recognize. After all, you need plausible deniability and the opportunity to lull people who already think of you as a clan of crooks and spies and cowards into giving you openings, trusting you, relying on you. You can't do that if your only specialized tools wear pajamas to work.

As for FFG's plans...who knows. I have already stated what I think about their choice to exclude the school from the book earlier in this thread and there is no point rehashing it. If, as you say, there is an upcoming Defender that functions as a yojimbo/duelist...that could work and I would be okay with that, but it still does bother me that they were left out. I have WAY too much invested in this game. But like all people who are watching something they love change, I am having a hard time with my perceived treatment of this clan by FFG. Take that for what it's worth.