5 hours ago, Franwax said:

Actors is a bit harder to get used to in terms of gameplay and character concept.

Really depends, imo. I think it's entirely reasonable to present the Shosuro Actor as a balance between Shūji, Rituals, and Kata, with minimal Ninjutsu techniques (does that sound familiar?), and superb ability to infiltrate anywhere with everything at their disposal - stealth, disguise, distraction, temptation, whatever. Which provides an open ended ninja option I don't believe the above quote truly applies to.

And, as said, leaves the Infiltrator to really talk up their focus on Ninjutsu later on. When there is more Ninjutsu to talk up.

1 hour ago, BitRunr said:

And, as said, leaves the Infiltrator to really talk up their focus on Ninjutsu later on. When there is more Ninjutsu to talk up.

This. A good part of the reason no-one has Ninjutsu as one of their three technique classes is that there really aren't enough techniques to justify it.

Any sourcebook including a school which does so had better also include a shed-load of extra techniques...

I can think of one technique (or set of them) coming for sure, but it might access in a title, given the circumstances.

(Also hey, everybody should read Whispers of Shadow and Steel )

On 11/28/2018 at 4:26 AM, Franwax said:

I think they were in fact a vassal family of the Isawa, and we are just now witnessing the beginning of their emancipation by the good graces of Shiba Tsukune in the current fictions... not even sure they were named in the core books of past editions (at least not as a major GC family).

But they’re alright

They're brand-new with FFG, as far as I'm aware. They probably didn't want to have any 3-family Great Clans, and thus created the Kaito.

As a long time fan of L5R who nonetheless has hardly played it (CCG or RPG) I actually feel like they came to an elegant solution with this book.

I suspect that they came to the "Each family has one school" decision extremely early on (which likely influenced the story to make the Kaito family - with the Agasha still in the Dragon clan, it's the best solution) and it leads to a good introduction of the core of each family's identity.

The decision to have the Bayushi Manipulators, leaving the Scorpion without any bushi school, is also interesting and teaches you something about them. They do not go to war in the traditional way. Yes, they have bushi. Yes, they have an army. But that is not how they fight. Unlike the other clans, they don't seek to appear militarily strong - they'd always prefer to use tricks to get their way. Everything about the clan reinforces this, down to the names: Manipulator, Infiltrator, and Illusionist. Even the Yogo Wardmasters play to the Scorpion image by guarding the clan's secrets.

Every clan works like this, and it's one of the reasons that I'm happy they got rid of the generic school names (Shiba Bushi doesn't tell you anything, but Shiba Guardian already starts showing you what the school is about)

Something that may have worked well and I haven't seen brought up: Why didn't they just make the Bayushi Manipulator both courtier and bushi? Perhaps switch out one of the Shuji for a Kata, rework the curriculum a bit to allow for more martial development (more Martial Arts and Tactics entries, a few more kata) and you'd have a school that is can be effective either way, but still represents the Scorpion well. Even losing a pure courtier school isn't a bad thing - the Scorpion are always misleading you and running multiple plans at once, after all.

19 minutes ago, Talandar said:

They  do not go to war in the traditional way. Yes  , t  hey have bushi. Yes, they have an army. But that is not how they fight. Unlike the other clans, they don't seek to appear militarily strong - they'd always prefer to use tricks to get their way. 

Oh but they do! When it serves them, they can perfectly march an army in a very traditional way. They did not almost wipe the Hare clan with court tricks, and the Scorpion Clan Coup was every bit a demonstration of military might (though it looks like it’s not happening in this timeline, so there is that). They can also act tough, marshal forces and lose on purpose (like with the Unicorn); that’s a trick but still requires believable military resources to be credible.

All in all, the Scorpion are no less militant than the Crane or Phoenix, probably even more so. If anything, relying on courts to offset military weakness is more a Crane thing. It’s also worth noting that Scorpion bushi, besides having a reputation of capable duelists, have also earned the respect of the Crab when defending against the second festering pit that appeared in their lands. They did not earn this with underhand tricks, I’m sure.

Their current representation in the core book really does a disservice to the setting. I also really hope we don’t stick to this “one school per family” nonsense in the future as it would be extremely reductive. Daidoji Merchants, Kakita Artisans, Asako Inquisitors (and Henshin!), Soshi Magistrates and many others would nicely flesh out the setting and show other facets of each family.

55 minutes ago, Talandar said:

Something  that may have worked well and I haven't seen brought up: Why didn't they just make the Bayushi Manipulator both courtier and bushi? Perhaps switch out one of the Shuji for a Kata, rework the curriculum a bit to allow for more martial development (more Martial Arts and  Tactics entries, a few more kata) and you'd have a school that is can be effective either way, but still represents the Scorpion well. Even los  ing a pure courtier school isn't a bad thing - the Scorpion are always misleading you and running multiple plans at once, after all.  

To add further, this could have worked, but it’s not what was done. Much of the discussion early on in the thread was indeed about how serviceable a bushi the Manipulator school could become, lacking only the tag. But it still falls short: like you said, not enough Kata and martial skills in the curriculum, and also you need a lucky roll on the heritage table just to get a Katana! But even a houseruled Manipulator would feel like shoehorning two concepts into one school.

35 minutes ago, Franwax said:

All in all, the Scorpion are no less militant than the Crane or Phoenix, probably even more so.

IIRC they were generally portrayed as being very traditional in many ways (with some obvious exceptions). Bushi fulfill the bushi roles, etc. They're a great clan that firmly believes their duty to the Emperor includes disreputable actions, not a thieves' guild.

Quote

Their current representation in the core book really does a disservice to the setting. I also really hope we don’t stick to this “one school per family” nonsense in the future as it would be extremely reductive. Daidoji Merchants, Kakita Artisans, Asako Inquisitors (and Henshin!), Soshi Magistrates and many others would nicely flesh out the setting and show other facets of each family.

I took the school choices to be a publishing decision, not a setting decision. I.e. they decided on one school per family for the core book, with the intent to publish additional schools (both to known families and new ones) in supplements. Of course, that brings up the entirely different debate of how 'complete' an RPG should be in it's core book. I think it's a legitimate gripe against the core book choices to complain if you don't think the Scorpion clan can be played effectively without a supplement.

[Late edit] Overall I'd say I would've preferred the publishing strategy of 'every clan gets a bushi, courtier, shugenja, and other'

1 hour ago, Franwax said:

and also you need a lucky roll on the heritage table just to get a Katana!

Lies. Deception. Katanas are rarity 7.

-

I don't like the general tone of the "but I wanna Bayushi Bushi" discussion mostly because circles itself without anyone ever articulating what the Bayushi Bushi are supposed to do that is uniquely them. You guys make it sound boring even "they have totally normal bushi, we swear!" Yeah, nobody should want to play that guy. That's for NPCs (for which is it very easy to make a Bayushi Bushi - you take a loyal bushi, say his name is "Bayushi", and then give him trickster because "I can swim!"). You should have some real distinct ability which is not necessarily something anybody else can do. It doesn't have to be complex, or anything, just they need an actual identity. Kitsuki school ability is basic as heck, but it does give them the universal sherlock power of investigating anything. Tags are just to ID what your character is suited to deal with, but even then "shinobi" is apparently pretty flexible because Shosuro can be scary good fighters despite their other tag being "Courtier", and Soshi is not necessarily. Okay, we can say they did relatively new fans a disservice to say they can't play a "straight up" fighter in Scorpion, but that's also not really the focus in the fiction right now either. We should recall titles are a thing and they're apparently pretty diverse (the yoriki title for instance is a pretty basic rank and yet allows some crossover for both social and combat characters) also.

I'm also not a fan of the four schools theme, because that basically only services one specific Scorpion family and would leave Unicorn, Crab and fellow Scorpion with the very legit complaint of "Bayushi get two schools but some of our families get zero?" (or you cut out Bayushi courtiers which feels just as hollow), and also the scheme just feels like a very forced balance. "Other" is just whatever outlier we have then, whether it's an actual outlier like Togashi and Kaito, or just the Crane and Lion happen to have a slightly different bushi tradition? Nah, better to fill out a school to every family, doing what FFG figures their iconic, unique stuff is and tag them with the story tags which make sense so people can get a broad snapshot, knowing we've A( made a generic school B( have a book full of titles coming to flex this out, and C( that same book with titles also shows we're not keeping to the "1 family = 1 school" rule. If you sincerely like the Bayushi Bushi, you will probably enjoy the end result of a later publication more because they'll probably be in a more focused book which will not only give them the unique school ability but will probably have some new kata or shuji they can get privileged access to over those more general starter schools. I am sure FFG will also strive to make all those other schools some of which sound incredibly dull really cool and exciting when they are published. And also the inevitable "build your own school" and "make your own technique" rules even later for when you still aren't happy.

47 minutes ago, UnitOmega said:

3 hours ago, Franwax said:

and also you need a lucky roll on the heritage table just to get a Katana!

Lies. Deception. Katanas  ar  e rarity  7.

Ah yes sorry, question 16.. I was fixed on the starting outfit with “one weapon of rarity 6 or lower”

1 hour ago, UnitOmega said:

circles  itself without anyone ever articulating what the  Bayushi Bushi are supposed to do that is uni  quely  t  h  e  m

Point taken. Let me try to articulate. From precedent lore and crunch, the distinctive traits of Bayushi bushi are :

- Fast: they get the drop on their opponents (Initiative boost) and used to get bonuses tied to having higher init. Granted, this is partially reflected in the low Honor which is now an init tie breaker... partially

- Better at feints/disarm (depending on the edition). Some Kata approximate that but it’s not really a distinctive feature if every bushi/courtier can take them too.

- Some unique ability to slap conditional effects on enemies (fatigue, stun... which now would translate into dazed or disoriented, or worse - stun was a real nasty one). Same here: anyone with access to Kata ad Shuji is equal in that department.

With 5R5 school abilities being limited to two (one basic, one mastery), this could go in a lot of directions. I would be glad to see where the design team takes this. And a school is also determined by its advancement profile; it’s not trivial to build and the ones from existing Scorpion schools or worldly ronin do not exactly give the right mix for a good old Clan bushi with a social twist (Manipulator is too social, not enough martial; Ronin is a bit bland; Infiltrator is a good fit but should replace some of the Ninjutsu ones). So yeah right now coming up with a substitute requires some work and that’s disappointing from a Core piece of material. But as you say, future publications may fill that gap in a very satisfactory manner (I hope).

Thanks for calling me out on the shortcomings of the argument of what a Bayushi Bushi should be. I hope it’s clearer for those who did not know the past iterations of the game.

Alright, as an mental exercise I've tried coming up with a Bayushi bushi school. Please note this isn't official, or tested, or any such thing - it's just what I came up with using other schools as a basis. The only part I'm not too sure about is the Rank 6 ability, but otherwise I think it's a decent stopgap until an official school is published.

Bayushi Enforcer School [Bushi]

Rings: +1 Air, +1 Water
Starting Skills (choose five): +1 Courtesy, +1 Fitness, +1 Martial Arts [Melee], +1 Martial Arts [Ranged], +1 Tactics, +1 Sentiment, +1 Skulduggery
Honor: 35
Techniques Available: Kata (), Rituals (), Shūji ()
Starting Techniques:
Kata (choose one): Striking as Air, Striking as Water

Shūji: <> Feigned Opening
Way of the Scorpion (School Ability): When rolling for initiative as part of a Skirmish, you can choose to rush or entice. If you rush , you may reroll up to two dice on your initiative roll. If you entice , you may add a kept (Ring die) set to an (Opportunity) result to your initiative roll instead.

Starting Outfit: Ashigaru armor, Ceremonial clothes, travel clothes, daishō (katana
and wakizashi), yumi (bow) and quiver of arrows or yari (spear), traveling pack.

Rank 1:

Martial Skills

Rank 1 kata

<> Lord Bayushi's Whispers

Command

Courtesy

Design

Cadence

Rank 2

Social Skills

Martial Arts [Melee]
Martial Arts [Ranged]

Tactics

Rank 1-2 kata

<> Deadly Sting

<> Flowing Water Strike

Rank 3

Scholar Skills

Martial Arts [Melee]

Meditation

Skulduggery

Rank 1–3 Air Shūji
Heartpiercing Strike
<> Wolf's Proposal

Rank 4

Martial Skills

Command

Courtesy
Sentiment

Rank 1-4 Kata

<> Silencing Stroke

Bravado

Rank 5

Social Skills

Martial Arts [Melee]

Meditation

Government

Rank 1-5 Water
Soul Sunder

<> Bend with the Storm

Rank 6

The Killing Blow: once per session after inflicting a critical strike, your character can spend a Void point. The target cannot reduce the severity of the critical strike through a Fitness roll.

20 hours ago, Franwax said:

All in all, the Scorpion are no less militant than the Crane or Phoenix, probably even more so. If anything, relying on courts to offset military weakness is more a Crane thing. It’s also worth noting that Scorpion bushi, besides having a reputation of capable duelists, have also earned the respect of the Crab when defending against the second festering pit that appeared in their lands. They did not earn this with underhand tricks, I’m sure.

This. I don't think the Scorpion can be an effective Underhand without being able to flex their muscles when it's appropriate. Words are powerful, but sometimes you need to show steel as well - and if you regularly antagonize the big three military powers in court, you need to demonstrate enough strength to convince them that even if you can't win in a full-blown military conflict you'll make that too costly an option to consider without overriding cause.

3 hours ago, Daigotsu Max said:

Alright  , as an mental exercise I've tried coming up with a Bayushi bush  i schoo  l. 

Thanks! That’s nice work (probably to move to the house rule sub forum ).

Just wondering if some early access to one of the Iaijutsu cuts would make sense ; or to Veiled Menace...

Just looks like there’s a typo under R5 : “rank 1-5 Water Heart Piercing Strike”?

6 hours ago, Daigotsu Max said:

Bayushi Enforcer School [Bushi]

overall looks pretty good. you can't do much wrong when creating a school in this edition. they basically have 2 school abilities. for the most part.

but... there is one minor mistake; the first rank school ability should scale with your rank so that it gets a bit better every time you rank up.

maybe take a look at the Kuni Purifier school ability ?

rush: set a number of dice containing Strife Symbol equal to your school rank as Success symbols for initiative check.

or

entice: set a number of dice containing Strife Symbol equal to your school rank as Opportunity symbols for initiative check.

nothing crazy. considering all dice faces with strife also have either opportunity/success/explosion on them, its not like you are going to have much better rolls (it is basically a good strife reducer for initiative + your check will be a bit more focused on either successes or opportunities, which is the point of the ability as you intended it i think).

Let me clarify what I said before. I didn't mean that the Scorpion don't have a good army, or that they only solve problems in the courts. However, they are not associated with bushi in the way that any of the other clans are. While they are not the least militant great clan (that distinction likely goes to either the Dragon or the Phoenix), the other not as militant clans have very distinct bushi traditions within the clan. If anything, I would place the Scorpion at about the halfway point from most to least militant.

The order goes something like: Lion, Crab, Unicorn, Scorpion, Crane, Dragon, Phoenix, with plenty of wiggle room. However, the Crane and Dragon have families that are renowned for their dueling prowess, almost to the exclusion of all else (Kakita and Mirumoto, respectively) while the Kami of the Phoenix's defining trait was his willingness to lay down his life to protect Isawa, a trait that his family has strongly inherited. By contrast, one of the Kami Bayushi's most famous acts was... declining to fight. In a suitably badass way, but the point stands. In the setting's history, the Scorpion do not have a particularly notable heritage for bushi. Yes, they did amazing things in an alternate future, but they haven't impressed the Crab by defending against the second Festering Pit, they didn't conquer Otosan Uchi (even if briefly)

All this being said, count me as one eagerly anticipating a Bayushi bushi school. I just don't think it's that big of an oversight in the corebook.

On 12/3/2018 at 11:08 AM, Avatar111 said:

overall looks pretty good. you can't do much wrong when creating a school in this edition. they basically have 2 school abilities. for the most part.

but... there is one minor mistake; the first rank school ability should scale with your rank so that it gets a bit better every time you rank up.

maybe take a look at the Kuni Purifier school ability ?

rush: set a number of dice containing Strife Symbol equal to your school rank as Success symbols for initiative check.

or

entice: set a number of dice containing Strife Symbol equal to your school rank as Opportunity symbols for initiative check.

nothing crazy. considering all dice faces with strife also have either opportunity/success/explosion on them, its not like you are going to have much better rolls (it is basically a good strife reducer for initiative + your check will be a bit more focused on either successes or opportunities, which is the point of the ability as you intended it i think).

You could cover both bases by adding an "additionally" at the end of the school ability where on initiative rolls you negate a number of Strife symbols equal to your school rank, I don't know if that'd cross the "too much of a good thing" line, though.

51 minutes ago, narukagami said:

You could cover both bases by adding an "additionally" at the end of the school ability where on initiative rolls you negate a number of Strife symbols equal to your school rank, I don't know if that'd cross the "too much of a good thing" line, though.

This kind of Strife management feels more Shiba-esque than Bayushi... how about picking a number of opponents up to your school rank with lower initiative score than you; when they perform an attack action against you, they must spend an opportunity for no effect, otherwise the attack fails.

Depends on initiative being high to begin with, and good against multiple opponents (like, say, being ganged up in the streets of the City of Lies...)

(But we should probably take this to the home brew sub forum)

On ‎12‎/‎1‎/‎2018 at 11:59 PM, UnitOmega said:

I don't like the general tone of the "but I wanna Bayushi Bushi" discussion mostly because circles itself without anyone ever articulating what the Bayushi Bushi are supposed to do that is uniquely them.

You know.. guard scorpion buildings and people.. be scorpion magistrates (something which scorpions are actually renowned for).. basically, the same things as other Bushi, except for the scorpion clan. I want to be clear that my objection to not having a scorpion bushi school is the simple fact that the "bushi" tag has no mechanical effect.. it's a role-playing aid, so why not just slap it onto one of the existing schools? It's something that we could house-rule, but that's not going to help new players looking at the book/setting for the first time and trying to figure out which scorpion school would be most appropriate for their "scorpion warrior" character.. not to mention GM's trying to figure out what school would best approximate a scorpion guard. I consider this an oversite in the core book because it's something that is of great importance to new players/GM's, but of very little actual importance to everyone else.

Also, I've run 5 L5R campaigns using different systems now, and no one has ever played a courtier school, even when I tell them that their will be a lot of social activity in my campaigns. I strongly believe that many players will not even look at courtier schools before a campaign starts unless they're already inclined to play social characters and aren't intimidated by exotic politics and intrigues of rokugan.. where words are just as likely to get you killed as an Oni is. Most players would rather face the familiar threat of a demon . For this reason, while it's pretty simple to see that some courtier schools have perfectly good combat abilities, new players aren't going to see that before they decide on what character to play.

Hmm. Well I hadn't expected the thread to do a discussion on Scorpion Philosophy. As to Courtiers, I've actually gotten a fair amount of social intrigue going on int he campaign I have been running. The players have been picking up court skills as they go and it's been amusing as they have been rolling REALLY well in those particular areas to the point they are giving the regular courtiers a run for their money. Right now I have a balance of Intrigue and Action as I'm having a bid for the local province's Governorship, leading to all sorts of shenanigans. so courtiers are viable, or court skills at the very least.

And as to Scorpion Philosophy, I've seen these kind of arguments pop up before. I look at Bayushi's Promise to Hantei as perhaps slightly historically distorted. The Phrase as written is "I will be your Villain, Hantei." Which does not leave much nuance for the aspiring clan of sneaks and secret police, so people tend to suspect them of everything bad automatically, which can cripple work that needs to be done. So I added two words at the end, "When necessary." A very small change, but has lead to something of a change in perception of the clan as people have figured out there is a war of philosophies within The Scorpion they refer to as The Argument between people who think actively advertising being bastards helps general fear and giving the Clan another weapon to use in it's duties (and it's treatment of it's own peasants as psych war ops targets really does not help), and those who play it far closer to the vest, and only strike after gathering information about a problem in question, but otherwise seem normal samurai.

And some of the bushi builds so far seem pretty solid, so I'm happy with that

6 hours ago, Black_Rabbit_Inle said:

Also, I've run 5 L5R campaigns using different systems now, and no one has ever played a courtier school, even when I tell them that their will be a lot of social activity in my campaigns. I strongly believe that many players will not even look at courtier schools before a campaign starts unless they're already inclined to play social characters and aren't intimidated by exotic politics and intrigues of rokugan.. where words are just as likely to get you killed as an Oni is. Most players would rather face the familiar threat of a demon . For this reason, while it's pretty simple to see that some courtier schools have perfectly good combat abilities, new players aren't going to see that before they decide on what character to play.

I agree, that unless a courtier goes out of his way a bit to pick up combat skill (he definitely CAN), then he cuts himself of from a big part of the game (combats). But then again, some people said they run mostly political games without, or almost no, combat.

I don't see why a Bayushi Courtier cannot pick a few Kata for combat, wouldn't even need like 10 of them probably... and Remember, a technique is 3xp... if it isn't in your school curriculum that means you get +2 (instead of +3) for school advancement. Certainly no big deal.

Now, some courtiers do have some very VERY situational school abilities, and that can hurt them;

Ide is the worst offender, his ability is not good. Yasuki is better in the same vein, even if it doesn't come up during action, you will get whatever gear you want and that can extend to very,,, magical gear, later on probably. Ikoma is definitely very good both in combat and politics, Baysuhi also (the right shuji in combat or even mass combat can be really solid), Asako and Kitsuki abilities though not combat oriented are fun to play. Doji's ability, weirdly enough is absurdly weak in political intrigues because it is only once per scene, but in combat, that once per scene shuji in between rounds of fighting can very well change the tide of the fight.

tdlr: taking a courtier and giving them a few kata and melee skill here and there is probably more than enough to be allright in fights. just give them a katana and an armor if its a fight heavy campaign they sure can requisition and armor and go get their katana in their home...

Okay, I've been thinking about the Bayushi Bushi, and what makes them unique in previous 3e and 4e editions:
- Way of the Scorpion: Increase armor TN against any opponent with lower TN. (Equivalent is Air Stance ).
- Pincers and Tail: Improved feint. (Equivalent is Striking as Air Kata ).
- Strike at the Tail: Improved Disarm (3e) or cause Fatigue (4e). (Equivalent is Breath of Wind Style Kata and Disappearing World Style Katas in terms of causing fatigue).
- Strike from Above, Strike from Below: Extra attack per round.
- The Pincers Hold, the Tail Strikes: Declare raises after attack (3e) or spend a Void to Stun (4e). (Equivalent is Breath of Wind Style and Disappearing World Style Katas in terms of applying status effects).

So with that being said, most of the "iconic" abilities of the Bayushi Bushi can be replicated using techniques, and a few minor adjustments to the Bayushi Manipulator School can allow them to function as both Courtier and Bushi.

Bayushi Manipulator School [Bushi, Courtier]
Rings: +1 Air, +1 Fire
Starting Skills (choose five): +1 Command, +1 Courtesy, +1 Design, +1 Martial Arts (Melee), +1 Performance, +1 Sentiment, +1 Skulduggery ... instead of Martial Arts [Unarmed]
Honor: 35
Techniques Available: Kata, Rituals, Shuji
Starting Techniques:
- Kata: Striking as Air... instead of Lord Bayushi's Whispers (Shuji)
- Shuji (choose one): Cadence, Rustling of Leaves
Weakness is My Strength (School Ability): Keep the same as published.

Rank 1:
Social Skills (Skill Group)
Sentiment
Martial Arts [Melee] ... instead of Martial Arts [Unarmed]
Skulduggery
Rank 1 Air Shuji
<> Fanning the Flames (Shuji)
The Weight of Duty (Shuji)

Rank 2:
Scholar Skills
Courtesy
Skulduggery
Martial Arts [Melee]
Rank 1-2 Kata ... instead of Rank 1-2 Fire Shuji
<> Dazzling Performance (Shuji)
Lord Bayushi's Whispers (Shuji) ... instead of Veiled Menace Style (Kata)

Rank 3:
Martial Skills (Skill Group) ... instead of Trade Skills
Courtesy
Culture
Sentiment
Rank 1-3 Fire Shuji ... instead of Rank 1-3 Water Shuji
<> Wolf's Proposal (Shuji)
<> Skulk (Ninjutsu)

Rank 4:
Social Skills (Skill Group)
Aesthetics
Sentiment
Martial Arts [Melee] ... instead of Medicine
Rank 1-4 Kata ... instead of Rank 1-4 Earth Shuji
Regal Bearing (Shuji) ... instead of <> Buoyant Arrival (Shuji)
<> Deadly Sting (Ninjutsu)

Rank 5:
Scholar Skills (Skill Group)
Courtesy
Performance
Martial Arts [Melee]
Rank 1-5 Air Shuji ... instead of Rank 1-5 Void Shuji
Buoyant Arrival (Shuji) ... instead of Bend with the Storm (Shuji)
Sear the Wound (Shuji)

Little Truths (Mastery Ability): Keep the same as published.

The end result is an Air/Fire focused Courtier/Swordsman. The high Air/Fire stats give an excellent Focus value, which allows for the high initiative that the Bayushi are known for, while the Rank 2 and Rank 4 access to Kata give the Bayushi a chance to get Veiled Menace Style (Rank 2), Breath of Wind Style (Rank 4) and Disappearing World Style (Rank 4) if they choose. However, if a player wishes to make a pure Courtier, this will allow them to build almost the exact same character... I think.

Thoughts?

Hmm.. I liked Daigotsu Max’s take better. Bayushi bushi are not Bayushi courtiers with some Kata sprinkled on top.

As for the feint part, Feigned Opening (Shuji) seems more on the money than Striking as Air. But anyway, the fact that some Kata can indeed replicate what made that school unique does not really work if anyone with access to Kata and Shuji can get the same techniques and do the same. It’s not “unique” anymore. In 4e for instance, that fatigue ability and the stun at R5 were things only they could do. This made it a school that was dangerous for every other bushi, except perhaps the Hida.

So I’ll stick with waiting for something new (maybe after the shadowlands supplement, we’ll get lucky and get something around the City of Lies?)

10 hours ago, Franwax said:

Hmm.. I liked Daigotsu Max’s take better.

Fair enough. I figured this might be a quick fix for someone that doesn't want to 100% homebrew an entire school.

I found the no Scorpion Bushi to be a strange omission. I suppose the Worldly Ronin is good enough as a gap filler for anything that didn't get included...