I just got mine from my FLGS tonight and after a 12hr day, my eyes are not focusing very well, but a question I have. I did not see a Scorpion Bushi listed in the base book. I can only presume that is coming later in one of the other books, as having a Shinobi class right off the bat would makes things a bit more interesting for the Scorpion.

The Bayushi Courtier might honestly make a Bushi unnecessary. But mostly they did 1 school per family and since Bayushi have pulled double duty for so long, we're out the Bayushi Bushi.

The school tags don't mean nearly as much. We had a Bayushi Courtier in our beta games and she was one of our better fighters. If we'd put her in armor and given her a full length sword we might have had to do a double take about her class tag.

hmm....might have to look at that

Like any scorpion would willingly stand up and fight in the front lines?

Seriously, the lack of a bushi tag is a grounds to underestimate a scorpion courtier's combat potential in several editions...

Yeah, depending on the advancement table and/or Starting and Keystone school abilities scools can cover a lot of archetypes. Looking at the Mantis bushi it abilities make it competent at commerce from the beggining even with less emphasis on Shuji.

So a Bauyshi courtier ends up with good martial abilities it is not surprising.

A 2 in melee and fitness. 1-2 in meditation and ... drawing a blank on the skill for skirmish initiative. A kata or two for your weapon, the iai katas. Might take you to rank 2 to get there, but you can make anyone a decent fighter.

Despite being a courtier, the Shosuro Infiltrator is a fairly effective warrior based on trickery and poison.

The Bayushi Manipulator do gain enough combat capability in their curriculum to not fall behind in gaining rank when picking up combat skills. Their mastery ability can be crazy in combat if an opponent falls for it. I imagine we will see more kata that create scheme actions, which will enable their school ability as well. The classic Scorpion Feint (Pincers and Tails) would make a great Scorpion only kata that is a scheme action.

For the time being, if you really need a devoted combat Scorpion and you do not just want to build a Bayushi Manipulator to be a combat character, there is always the Worldly Ronin school.

9 hours ago, GM81 Protocol Droid said:

Despite being a courtier, the Shosuro Infiltrator is a fairly effective warrior based on trickery and poison.

 The Bayushi Manipulator do gain enough combat capability in their curriculum to not fall behind in gaining rank when picking up combat skills. Their mastery ability can be crazy in combat if an opponent falls for it. I imagine we will see more kata that create scheme actions, which will enable their school ability as we  ll. The classic Scorpion Feint (Pincers and Tails) would make a great Scorpion only kata that is a scheme action.

The Infiltrator has some crazy good potential even for Duels.

9 hours ago, GM81 Protocol Droid said:

The Bayushi Manipulator do gain enough combat capability in their curriculum to not fall behind in gaining rank when picking up combat skills. Their mastery ability can be crazy in combat if an opponent falls for it. I imagine we will see more kata that create scheme actions, which will enable their school ability as well. The classic Scorpion Feint (Pincers and Tails) would make a great Scorpion only kata that is a scheme action.

You can actually use shuji in skirmishes too, so you can use the Bayushi Manipulator School Tech on Feigned Opening or Pillar of Calm. Or for Buoyant Arrival if you feel like you have to break the scene .

I have not gotten a chance to play the Fantasy Flight version yet, but I have been playing L5R since first edition. I am impressed with everything I have from FF thus far but I do have to say the lack of a Scorpion clan bushi school concerns me.

I realize on here people are saying the Bayushi manipulater can serve as a bushi too if taking the right skills but on another thread in this forum people are saying that between bushing and courtiers bushi overall have an advantage as bushi can also pick up social skills enough to get around in the courts.

I just find it odd that Scorpion have no bushi. I would think for core every clan would have a basic bushi and shugenja school if nothing else. I mean, despite being underestimated (intentionally) the Scorpion do have a standing army do bushi should be present. They are also very good duelists whose abilities secretly rivaled those of the mirumoto and Kakita. I thought past editions reflected their fighting style well, and again I am learning the system so the Scorpion courtier may very well be as effective as other clans bushi. I personally though would rather have had an official bushi school and moved the Yogo shugenja to the Emerald Empire expansion rather than vice versa. Just my 2 cents.

I think most people are of the same mind. But they decided to do 1 school per family (Crab and Unicorn have 5 schools) and Bayushi Courtier is their signature school. I hope the first additional school Scorpion get is the Bayushi Bushi, but I don't think it's as needed as people think. I think change just scares folks. There's plenty of backhanded trickery in their list, and anyone with access to kata can be a duelist if they want.

Maybe they can just speed up the Dojo of Bitter Lies and add it to the world much sooner, and we could have that school for the Scorpion's bushi option.

21 minutes ago, Stormbinder said:

I realize on here people are saying the Bayushi manipulater can serve as a bushi too if taking the right skills but on another thread in this forum people are saying that between bushing and courtiers bushi overall have an advantage as bushi can also pick up social skills enough to get around in the courts.

Well, the Bayushi Manipulator is just a very bad school overall (or at least it was in the Beta), but School advancement does have a few things for a passable bushi build.

7 hours ago, sndwurks said:

For the time being, if you really need a devoted combat Scorpion and you do not just want to build a Bayushi Manipulator to be a combat character, there is always the Worldly Ronin school.

The Infiltrator is a bushi in all but name (and free armor). Daishō is the indicator of "Looks like a bushi to me".

The language of swords is key in historical Japan, and in Rokugan as presented as well.

Samurai generally have a wakizashi. Bushi a katana and/or a bow. Samurai Bushi a daishō (or rarely, especially ji-samurai, a wakizashi and a bow). Monks a bō (staff).

(Keep in mind: not all bushi are samurai - non-samurai Bushi are the bulk of the clan troops.)

I imagine the Bayushi Bushi School will eventually see print. It has a long history in the game and FFG still has plenty of Scorpion characters who are traditional bushi in the fiction and LCG. Bayushi are in a somewhat unique situation of having almost even representation among bushi and courtier within schools they manage. Scorpion are the only clan where a family serves as the primary representative of two roles.

As others have said, rather than the focus in previous editions of Bushi/Shugenja (1st), Bushi/Shugenja/Iconic (2nd), Bushi/Courtier/Shugenja/Iconic (3rd/4th), 5th edition instead focuses on iconic schools for each family. This gives Scorpion the oddity of having two shugenja schools and no bushi schools in the core book. This is a big change from before so it does take some getting used to.

The Emerald Empire book has already been all but confirmed to have Imperial and Minor Clan schools. I have to imagine that it will have probably 1 or more new schools for the 7 main clans as well. No doubt a proper Scorpion Bushi school would be at the top of the list of something needed to fill out their roles.

Really, I feel like the question is more about what piece of the other clans one would deem missing. I don't know that many other clans have families that are known for two distinctly different schools.

6 minutes ago, GM81 Protocol Droid said:

Scorpion are the only clan where a family serves as the primary representative of two roles.

I would suggest that for Asako as well; though it seems perhaps they're depriving the Henshin of their 'Iconic' role so that the Kaito can be monks instead.

52 minutes ago, AK_Aramis said:

(Keep in mind: not all bushi are samurai - non-samurai Bushi are the bulk of the clan troops.)

Sorry to smart*ss this, but you are thinking about the Buke and not the Bushi. Ashigaru and Budoka are nominally members of the Buke (so the bulk of clan troops are non-samurai Buke ) , but they are not Bushi.

2 minutes ago, Hida Jitenno said:

I would suggest that for Asako as well; though it seems perhaps they're depriving the Henshin of their 'Iconic' role so that the Kaito can be monks instead.

I would argue over the course of the game the focus shifted from monk to courtier representation, rather than it be depriving the Henshin. IIRC even in the WotP book the henshin were still rather rare among the Asako, the game just lacked the backing of mechanics for the scholars. Since 3rd edition, the Asako have largely consisted of the courtiers with the henshin monks being a rare secretive order. I'm not sure how much the representation shifted in the old card game, but that definitely holds up in the LCG.

4 hours ago, AtoMaki said:

Well, the Bayushi Manipulator is just a very bad school overall (or at least it was in the Beta), but School advancement does have a few things for a passable bushi build.

There's a new additional effect in the Bayushi Manipulator ability: exploiting a target's disadvantage is free. Still confined to Scheme actions though.

2 hours ago, TheHobgoblyn said:

The Emerald Empire book has already been all but confirmed to have Imperial and Minor Clan schools. I have to imagine that it will have probably 1 or more new schools for the 7 main clans as well. No doubt a proper Scorpion Bushi school would be at the top of the list of something needed to fill out their roles.

Really, I feel like the question is more about what piece of the other clans one would deem missing. I don't know that many other clans have families that are known for two distinctly different schools.

Well, the Crab are 'missing' the Kuni Witch hunters, the Crane lack the Kakita Artisan, the male Utaku have nothing to do...

Personally, I think that the Witch Hunter is covered by Kata in the Purifiers and the Bayushi Bushi can be covered by Kata in the Manipulators.

The Kakita Artisan and the Utaku Infantry strike me as larger holes.

4 hours ago, Tonbo Karasu said:

Well, the Crab are 'missing' the Kuni Witch hunters, the Crane lack the Kakita Artisan, the male Utaku have nothing to do...

Personally, I think that the Witch Hunter is covered by Kata in the Purifiers and the Bayushi Bushi can be covered by Kata in the Manipulators.

The Kakita Artisan and the Utaku Infantry strike me as larger holes.

The Utaku Infantry were fairy late comers to the lore, ie Clan War miniature creation, introduced to the RPG in Secrets of the Unicorn which was, IIRC, published seven years after the initial printing of the game.

Utaku males training in other families has long been established.

For me looking at the iconic schools the ones I feel are not represented at all are Kakita Artisans, and the Asako Henshin. I would also love to see their take on Berserkers.

Wouldn't mind seeing some Brotherhood, Minor Clan, and Imperial schools in the corebook either. 4th Ed kind of spoiled me on that...

I wonder if there's a place for generic bushi and courtier schools, able to be used by any clan? Or does the Worldly Ronin fulfill that?

6 hours ago, Tonbo Karasu said:

I wonder if there's a place for generic bushi and courtier schools, able to be used by any clan? Or does the Worldly Ronin fulfill that?

From what I heard it does.