Hey folks!
We're about to start the Bespin Gambit. So far we've settled on Onar, Davith and Shyla as heroes.
Murne, Vinto and Verena are all possible as our 4th. Out of those three, any thoughts as to the best choice for this particular team? Suggestions for good team strategies with this group? Is a Davith/Shyla combo too melee dependent? (Eg, maybe we ditch Shyla and grab two of Murne/Vinto/Verena?)
Thanks! May the force... well, you know the rest.
Edited by TeethAlmightyThe three heroes you've settled on are all short range fighters. Unless you want to buy a better weapon for Onar, you should consider him a melee hero.
That being said, I think you need to get a long range shooter in there. Vinto can fill that role easily. He can also deal plenty of damage from behind the other heroes.
Murne is acceptable to fill a support role in that group, but I feel that she shines best when built to "Lead from the Front". And you don't need that with your current group.
Verena is great, but not with the 3 heroes you've already settled on. I would take her and ditch Onar or Davith, but keep Shyla. Always keep Shyla.
Of course this is all from a min-max perspective. Bespin Gambit is not a difficult campaign for the rebels. My ultimate recommendation is to play with what you want and what will be the most fun for your group. As long as everyone is having fun, the rest will fall into place.
17 minutes ago, thestag said:The three heroes you've settled on are all short range fighters. Unless you want to buy a better weapon for Onar, you should consider him a melee hero.
Yes, that's a worry. Especially if he opts for a "don't make me hurt you" build with hand cannon.
17 minutes ago, thestag said:That being said, I think you need to get a long range shooter in there. Vinto can fill that role easily. He can also deal plenty of damage from behind the other heroes.
This is what I'm starting to think. The other two players are really dying to try Onar and Davith, so I'm thinking of sacrificing my choice (Shyla) for a long range dps-er like Vinto. He's fun to play, right?
17 minutes ago, thestag said:Murne is acceptable to fill a support role in that group, but I feel that she shines best when built to "Lead from the Front". And you don't need that with your current group.
In the past we've played with Gideon, Diala and MHD as hard support or semi support. We're thinking Murne just to change it up. Plus, some of her abilities look fun ? Or maybe we don't need support?
17 minutes ago, thestag said:Verena is great, but not with the 3 heroes you've already settled on. I would take her and ditch Onar or Davith, but keep Shyla. Always keep Shyla.
Well, as I said, Onar and Davith are here to stay. With Murne as support I may, sadly, sacrifice Shyla for the greater good.
17 minutes ago, thestag said:Of course this is all from a min-max perspective. Bespin Gambit is not a difficult campaign for the rebels. My ultimate recommendation is to play with what you want and what will be the most fun for your group. As long as everyone is having fun, the rest will fall into place.
Well said! Does Davith/Onar/Vinto/Murne seem viable?
28 minutes ago, TeethAlmighty said:This is what I'm starting to think. The other two players are really dying to try Onar and Davith, so I'm thinking of sacrificing my choice (Shyla) for a long range dps-er like Vinto. He's fun to play, right?
He's very fun. I would suggest keeping Shyla though, as she's (one of?) the best melee characters available.
Maybe Davith/Onar/Vinto/Shyla is viable if neither of Onar/Davith can be dropped for Murne...
19 minutes ago, Majushi said:He's very fun. I would suggest keeping Shyla though, as she's (one of?) the best melee characters available.
Maybe Davith/Onar/Vinto/Shyla is viable if neither of Onar/Davith can be dropped for Murne...
I like that lineup! Lots of damage dealers ? No real support though - could that be a problem? Also, equipping all these heroes could get expensive. But if Onar sticks to hand cannon and Davith to shrouded light saber, maybe less of a concern?
7 hours ago, thestag said:That being said, I think you need to get a long range shooter in there.
The Bespin Gambit is all interior, thus not having a long-range "sniper" is not a real issue.
8 hours ago, a1bert said:The Bespin Gambit is all interior, thus not having a long-range "sniper" is not a real issue.
Good to know! Do you think Davith/Shyla/Onar + one of Murne or Vinto would work?
45 minutes ago, TeethAlmighty said:Good to know! Do you think Davith/Shyla/Onar + one of Murne or Vinto would work?
One thing about Murne is that, if you're going to build her as a pure support character, she tends to work better with ranged figures. Her best ability in that build is "Waylay" (which can be used to give another hero and/or an ally a free attack) but it's a bit more work to get that attack off if all of your other heroes are melee since there's less guarantee that they'll be in position to attack something. Not to say that it can't be done, mind you, it just takes a bit more planning and the imperial can counter it a bit more easily.
With that said, Murne's other typical build with "Lead from the Front" is a powerhouse no matter how you slice it and doesn't much care who the other characters are. Also, thematically it's nice to have Murne if you draw her side mission as part of the Bespin campaign.
As for Vinto, I've found him to be useful (and fun) all around. Honestly I don't think that any of the combinations you've listed are bad, so you're really pretty safe to go with whatever choice strikes you as the most fun.
2 hours ago, ManateeX said:With that said, Murne's other typical build with "Lead from the Front" is a powerhouse no matter how you slice it and doesn't much care who the other characters are.
Interesting! Can you elaborate on that build or direct me to a relevant link?
On 10/12/2018 at 5:05 PM, TeethAlmighty said:Interesting! Can you elaborate on that build or direct me to a relevant link?
I'm guessing that a "powerhouse" Murne is:
Solidarity>lead>propaganda>professional aide?
I can see how this makes her tanky via the recovery portions of lead and solidarity, and the increased health from propaganda. Not sure how she becomes a big damage dealer though. The bonuses from lead are fairly minor (either +1 dmg or +1 pierce). Is there a synergy between abilities I am missing for this version of Murne?
8 hours ago, TeethAlmighty said:The bonuses from lead are fairly minor (either +1 dmg or +1 pierce).
"either"? If she activates as the first hero each round she gets all 4 options from Lead from the Front . Get Hand Cannon early, it gets passed to her when she gets LftF.
(Activation tokens are exhausted after the activation.)
(Edit: You can see an example of this Murne in the the PBF campaign: Red Snow White Troopers swia032 )
Edited by a1bert8 hours ago, TeethAlmighty said:I'm guessing that a "powerhouse" Murne is:
Solidarity>lead>propaganda>professional aide?
I can see how this makes her tanky via the recovery portions of lead and solidarity, and the increased health from propaganda. Not sure how she becomes a big damage dealer though. The bonuses from lead are fairly minor (either +1 dmg or +1 pierce). Is there a synergy between abilities I am missing for this version of Murne?
Yep, you've got it! But like A1bert pointed out, Lead from the Front is based on the number of activation tokens left (i.e. the number of rebels that haven't gone yet in the round). If she goes early, she gets +1 damage AND pierce 1 AND recover 1 on every attack she makes, all without having to spend any strain to do it. Or, as A1bert pointed out, give her the Hand Cannon and make use of the +2 Accuracy bonus so that you're rolling a red/red guaranteed 3 accuracy attack with +1 damage/Pierce 1 for just 400 credits. If the rest of your group all wants money for weapons (like some of yours do) then a bargain like that can be super useful.
And the other key is that she should hopefully be able to double attack just about every round. She doesn't tend to use much strain in this build, so you can feel free to use it for strain moving. Solidarity and the odd red die surge will take care of clearing that away for you, and if you position your rebels well Solidarity can often also take care of all of the movement you need to do. It's a huge advantage to be able to get the benefits of resting/moving without needing to spend an action to do so, letting her hand out the damage instead.
Add the +2 Health from Rebel Propaganda on top of that, and you've got a 14 health, black die hero who can recover in three ways (LFTF, Solidarity rest, unneeded strain rolled on the red dice) without ever using a rest action to do it. She gets really tough to take down.
Now it doesn't always go off perfectly, since sometimes the imperial can work to take her targets away and sometimes the mission doesn't allow you to keep everyone together for all the free movement, but when everything with Murne clicks you can really ruin an imperial player's day.
Edit: And also, in any Murne build, Company of Heroes is just fantastic if you can earn a good ally. Someone like Jedi Luke can easily be worth an extra 8 threat at the beginning of a mission, letting you cut through the initial deployment and giving you an activation advantage that will often last the whole game. And the best part is that it's only 1 XP, so you can just ignore it completely until you earn an ally to use it with and then buy it immediately after that mission.
Edited by ManateeXOn 10/12/2018 at 11:09 AM, a1bert said:The Bespin Gambit is all interior, thus not having a long-range "sniper" is not a real issue.
unless IMP takes Imperial Black Ops class, so the Rebels won't be able to even hit his troops
I played it with 3 melee characters and it was painfull.
3 minutes ago, Szycha said:unless IMP takes Imperial Black Ops agenda, so the Rebels won't be able to even hit his troops
I didn't say you should not get a hero with ranged abilities, just that it doesn't need to be Loku...
(More than one melee character is pushing it in general, three is masochistic.)
6 hours ago, a1bert said:"either"? If she activates as the first hero each round she gets all 4 options from Lead from the Front . Get Hand Cannon early, it gets passed to her when she gets LftF.
(Activation tokens are exhausted after the activation.)
(Edit: You can see an example of this Murne in the the PBF campaign: Red Snow White Troopers swia032 )
Oh my...I was reading that wrong. I thought the "number of activation tokens in play" on her card was referring only to *Murne's* activation tokens (e.g., one token for regular, two for heroic/ legendary). THIS. CHANGES. EVERYTHING.
As usual, you have blown my mind a1bert. Thank you!
With Onar in the mix, there's going to be some heavy competition for that hand cannon! ?
2 hours ago, ManateeX said:Yep, you've got it! But like A1bert pointed out, Lead from the Front is based on the number of activation tokens left (i.e. the number of rebels that haven't gone yet in the round). If she goes early, she gets +1 damage AND pierce 1 AND recover 1 on every attack she makes, all without having to spend any strain to do it.
This is the piece I missed! I assumed it referred only to her own number of activation tokens. Powerhouse indeed!
2 hours ago, ManateeX said:Or, as A1bert pointed out, give her the Hand Cannon and make use of the +2 Accuracy bonus so that you're rolling a red/red guaranteed 3 accuracy attack with +1 damage/Pierce 1 for just 400 credits. If the rest of your group all wants money for weapons (like some of yours do) then a bargain like that can be super useful.
That's just... ridiculous. However, with Onar also wanting hand cannon as part of "don't make me hurt you", how would you prioritize who gets the cannon? Perhaps Murne makes more sense given the accuracy bonus.
2 hours ago, ManateeX said:And the other key is that she should hopefully be able to double attack just about every round. She doesn't tend to use much strain in this build, so you can feel free to use it for strain moving. Solidarity and the odd red die surge will take care of clearing that away for you, and if you position your rebels well Solidarity can often also take care of all of the movement you need to do.
Trust me, I'm sold! Lol
2 hours ago, ManateeX said:Add the +2 Health from Rebel Propaganda on top of that, and you've got a 14 health, black die hero who can recover in three ways (LFTF, Solidarity rest, unneeded strain rolled on the red dice) without ever using a rest action to do it. She gets really tough to take down.
Move over Onar. There's a new damage sponge in town ?
Thanks for the feedback!
39 minutes ago, TeethAlmighty said:That's just... ridiculous. However, with Onar also wanting hand cannon as part of "don't make me hurt you", how would you prioritize who gets the cannon? Perhaps Murne makes more sense given the accuracy bonus.
The beauty of Onar is that he doesn't really care what weapon he uses, as none of his abilities trigger off of a particular type (not even ranged vs melee!). You're right, though, that the Hand Cannon works great for him since he often ends up getting up close to his targets to benefit from Rush.
With that said, LftF is a 4XP ability and so you won't have it until a few missions in (and that's if you rush straight for it). A good idea might be to start with the Hand Cannon on Onar and then pass it off to Murne when she gets her ability, buying Onar a better weapon at that time.
41 minutes ago, ManateeX said:The beauty of Onar is that he doesn't really care what weapon he uses, as none of his abilities trigger off of a particular type (not even ranged vs melee!). You're right, though, that the Hand Cannon works great for him since he often ends up getting up close to his targets to benefit from Rush.
With that said, LftF is a 4XP ability and so you won't have it until a few missions in (and that's if you rush straight for it). A good idea might be to start with the Hand Cannon on Onar and then pass it off to Murne when she gets her ability, buying Onar a better weapon at that time.
Bespin Gambit gives you 3xp from the start and 2xp after the first mission, she could have LftF by the 2nd mission.
1 hour ago, Tvboy said:Bespin Gambit gives you 3xp from the start and 2xp after the first mission, she could have LftF by the 2nd mission.
Oh, and she will... ?
After that, I'm thinking the priority would be solidarity, then propaganda...
2 hours ago, Tvboy said:Bespin Gambit gives you 3xp from the start and 2xp after the first mission, she could have LftF by the 2nd mission.
Doesn't really change too much, though - if you can afford to buy Onar a better weapon at that point you can do it, if not you can hold off until later. +1 damage/pierce 1 is good on any weapon; the hand cannon was just a suggestion of a cheap gun that still works pretty well late in the game.
On 10/15/2018 at 9:35 AM, Szycha said:unless IMP takes Imperial Black Ops class, so the Rebels won't be able to even hit his troops
I just looked at this deck. Yikes. Does not favor a melee-heavy squad. I'm also not crazy about the competition for weapons and mods with both Davith and Shyla in tow. And while Shyla and Davith can both be built to do some crowd control, seems like Verena would truly shine in this role if Bespin is a lot of interior spaces. Plus, Murne can help her with strain mitigation via Rebel Propaganda and Figurehead. In fact, Murne seems born to that role.
So, how does Davith/Onar/Verena/Murne grab you? ?