3 hours ago, wurms said:

Drea Renthal 40pts -> 48pts (howlrunner that doesnt need to be range 1 of ships, has turret, and 8hp).

17 minutes ago, wurms said:

Drea's ability is good enough to warrant the increase. I would be fine with a more cautious 44pts, since Drea has to take at least dorsel making him 48pts. But 40 is hogwash.

She(!) is on a Ywing. Slow ship, subpar dial, 1 agility instead of Howlrunners 3, thus melting really fast. While the Tie swarm zips around.

Juke - what bothers me is that it is an autoinclude, on a few ships, where it is really good, and otherwise not worth it.

Trajectory Simulator should never been included in 2.0.

Generally I would say though, it is far too early for point changes. Let at least FO and Resistance drop.

Could you imagine the weeping and gnashing of teeth if the TIE Phantom loses its Elite slot and the Punisher loses the System slot? Juke and Tragedy Simulator don't look to be too problematic elsewhere.

At Coruscant it was (at least mostly) confirmed that the first points adjustment would drop in January.

they wouldnt remove the talent off phantoms or the sensor off punishers.

Not a single fighter-style ship lacks talent slots (or force counterpart) unless its the PS1-2 idiot nobody uses BECAUSE of that. A nerf like this is basically saying "We dont know how to balance so stop using it" - even when phantoms arent that big of an issue to begin with...
The #1 defining difference between Bomber and Punisher is System instead of Talent. If they removed the System but didnt give it a talent the Punisher would go right back to "Why use it over a bomber?" like it was in 1.0, where the system wasnt that big a deal for ordnance users.

17 hours ago, gamblertuba said:

Could you imagine the weeping and gnashing of teeth if the TIE Phantom loses its Elite slot and the Punisher loses the System slot? Juke and Tragedy Simulator don't look to be too problematic elsewhere.

At Coruscant it was (at least mostly) confirmed that the first points adjustment would drop in January.

The Phantom without the elite slot isn’t a viable, I’m 100% it will never lose its elite slot. Furthermore, taking away a sensor slot would do the same to the Punisher, I don’t think if that occurred you’d see it much being played. A Punisher w/o the availablity of FCS, AD, CD, or TJ is crippling. Especially if it didn’t get a elite slot. Those two things will never happen.

I could see them specifically targeting Whisper and Redline with a nerf like that. Probably Whisper more than Redline because it would be weird thematically to have a system slot be dependent on the pilot. But it would totally make sense for Whisper.

12 minutes ago, Vineheart01 said:

Not a single fighter-style ship lacks talent slots (or force counterpart) unless its the PS1-2 idiot nobody uses BECAUSE of that.

That's not correct, Biggs lacks the talent slot, likely because he would be super annoying with Selfless or Elusive. The named Punishers also lack the talent slot, as do many other named pilots. If a talent card is synergizing too well with a named pilots ability, it makes more sense to just take that slot away from that pilot rather than punishing everyone else.

I don't think they need to take the talent slot away from all of the Phantoms, but there's certainly a case for taking it away from Whisper, since her pilot ability and high initiative synergizes even more with Juke than the other Phantoms, as it's almost impossible to deny her the use of Juke.

3 minutes ago, Tvboy said:

I could see them specifically targeting Whisper and Redline with a nerf like that. Probably Whisper more than Redline because it would be weird thematically to have a system slot be dependent on the pilot. But it would totally make sense for Whisper.

What I see occurring is a point increase to named Phantoms, and Redline specifically. Then possibly a slight increase to Juke if anything. I don’t see them removing the system/elite slot. Making list builders choose between ships because of cost yes, completely rendering them unusable would not be good for community.

29 minutes ago, Cgriffith said:

What I see occurring is a point increase to named Phantoms, and Redline specifically. Then possibly a slight increase to Juke if anything. I don’t see them removing the system/elite slot. Making list builders choose between ships because of cost yes, completely rendering them unusable would not be good for community.

Echo isn't really a problem though. I4 and the decreased action efficiency from Whisper has been enough to keep her in check. Taking away the talent is already something FFG has done to a lot of named pilots in the 2nd edition, it's not even close to being a sacred upgrade slot.

Personally though, I would be fine if they just double the points cost of collision detector. It's really only when you have Whisper decloacking through and attacking while on rocks that she becomes a bit absurd. Or better yet just remove the system slot from the Phantom altogether, they only ever use it for collision detector.

39 minutes ago, Cgriffith said:

The Phantom without the elite slot isn’t a viable, I’m 100% it will never lose its elite slot. Furthermore, taking away a sensor slot would do the same to the Punisher, I don’t think if that occurred you’d see it much being played. A Punisher w/o the availablity of FCS, AD, CD, or TJ is crippling. Especially if it didn’t get a elite slot. Those two things will never happen.

Just make Whisper 54, Jule cost 7-8 on Phantoms and Traj Sim cost 7-8 for everyone. Don't need to take away slits I agree, but certain combinations are a little too good.

12 minutes ago, Tvboy said:

Echo isn't really a problem though. I4 and the decreased action efficiency from Whisper has been enough to keep her in check. Taking away the talent is already something FFG has done to a lot of named pilots in the 2nd edition, it's not even close to being a sacred upgrade slot.

Personally though, I would be fine if they just double the points cost of collision detector. It's really only when you have Whisper decloacking through and attacking while on rocks that she becomes a bit absurd. Or better yet just remove the system slot from the Phantom altogether, they only ever use it for collision detector.

What I-5 pilots have lost talent slots in 2e?

Trajectory Simulator is fine, just increase the cost of Redline by a lot and Deathrain by a little. It's not as if a ton of Punisher and Scurrg generics are dominating the meta. I tried a couple of times to get the Cutlass to work, but there's just no reason when the aces are barely more expensive. Same with Whisper vs Echo and Phantom Generics. Guri is 16 points more expensive than her PS2 counterpart, which I believe is perfectly fair. She still sees more table time than them. Redline and Whisper however is only 8 points more expensive than the PS2/3 generics, and could both stand to go up by 4-6 points.

24 minutes ago, Tvboy said:

Personally though, I would be fine if they just double the points cost of collision detector. It's really only when you have Whisper decloacking through and attacking while on rocks that she becomes a bit absurd. Or better yet just remove the system slot from the Phantom altogether, they only ever use it for collision detector.

I still think you should have to spend a charge to boost or barrel roll through a rock. That way it wouldn't be an unlimited ability. Or even at least make it, "While you have an unspent charge..."

Unfortunately, those would require wording changes, so they're unlikely to happen anytime soon.

15 minutes ago, JasonCole said:

What I-5 pilots have lost talent slots in 2e?

Redline is an I5 without a talent slot. My point is that being I5 doesn't mean you absolutely must have a talent slot.

3 minutes ago, JJ48 said:

I still think you should have to spend a charge to boost or barrel roll through a rock

Have they been rolling for damage if CD is out of charges? The roll for damage still applies even with Collision Detector allowing them to boost/barrel roll through when chargeless.

http://infinitearenas.com/xw2rules/index.php?page=obstacles

2 minutes ago, Hiemfire said:

Have they been rolling for damage if CD is out of charges? The roll for damage still applies even with Collision Detector allowing them to boost/barrel roll through when chargeless.

http://infinitearenas.com/xw2rules/index.php?page=obstacles

I haven't really seen it used, honestly, but I was talking about over and above the damage part.

Just now, JJ48 said:

I haven't really seen it used, honestly, but I was talking about over and above the damage part.

The risk of a hit or a crit should be a fairly big deal, much less the guaranteed stress from debris clouds which cancels out their free Evade action.

8 minutes ago, Tvboy said:

Redline is an I5 without a talent slot. My point is that being I5 doesn't mean you absolutely must have a talent slot.

Punishers NEVER had a talent / EPT slot. Can't lose something you never had.

My point is that trying to remove a talent slot from a high I pilot is the worst sort of "fix" possible. Whisper w/ Juke isn't out there soloing lists. If she was, it would be a problem. The only possible problem is that she's to efficient at her current price. If it's just her, then raise her points. If its everything with Juke, then raise Juke's price. But raising juke's price isn't punitive to ships that aren't already taking it.

44 minutes ago, FriendofYoda said:

Just make Whisper 54, Jule cost 7-8 on Phantoms and Traj Sim cost 7-8 for everyone. Don't need to take away slits I agree, but certain combinations are a little too good.

I would have no issue with this, if points increases/decreases (in certain cases are needed to "balance" the ship(s) then I'm all for it. The issue I would have is eliminating upgrade slots. Adjust the points, make list building a more creative thought process instead of a 56 point Whisper. maybe a 62 point Whisper; which then forces you to re-evalute list building without completely making a ship(s) unplayable.

@JasonCole I completely agree. And I would still find room in my lists for a 60-66 point Whisper (with Juke) ~ minor point adjustments are needed NOT upgrade slot removals.

@Tvboy Collison Detector on Brath and Ryad is hilarious too. Of course though you lose the opportunity to reposition options without Advanced Sensors.

22 minutes ago, JasonCole said:

Punishers NEVER had a talent / EPT slot. Can't lose something you never had.

Quote

Redline is an I5 without a talent slot. My point is that being I5 doesn't mean you absolutely must have a talent slot.

I actually mostly agree that they should just raise Whisper's price, but I'm saying that upgrade shouldn't be considered sacred just because of what Initiative a pilot is at or what slots they had in first edition, the option should be open.

Redacted

No one is arguing that the Punisher (or the K-Wing) ever had a talent slot, only that removing the slot on a ship/pilot that has it, and has always had it, is a bad move.

Thinking about it I think either Darth Vader needs a buff or Luke Skywalker needs a nerf.

Darth Vader I6

2/3/3/2/3

Vader more often or not needs to use at a minimum of 1 force charge to trigger his pilot ability thus crippling his ability to use his action bar further. Without Supernatural Reflexes Vader’s ability to reposition is pedestrian and underwhelming. The fact that Vader (crew) is the better option is very telling.

in comparison

Luke Skywalker I5

3/2/4/2/2

Has the option for auto-include S-Foils, Supernatural Reflexes which doesn’t hurt his force count due to his extremely powerful pilot ability which automatically recharges Force charges every time he becomes a defender. Thus always giving him a minimum of 1 soft focus/evade. Never needing to worry if you have green tokens. Can regen with astromech of choice and has 1 more HP than Vader accompanied with the Pilot ability makes him a far superior option.

I think Vader needs a buff and Luke a nerf.

I expect the rebel TIE to get illict and crew slots, and maybe tye B-wing can get a crew as well

Hello Jakku Gunrunner. A points increase is most definitely going to occur.

2 minutes ago, Cgriffith said:

Hello Jakku Gunrunner. A points increase is most definitely going to occur.

3 points at most IF any. Any more than 3 points and the Tractor Scyk becomes the better option instead of a roughly equitable choice.

15 minutes ago, Hiemfire said:

3 points at most IF any. Any more than 3 points and the Tractor Scyk becomes the better option instead of a roughly equitable choice.

I was thinking 4, pushing them up to 32 and then at least there is that minimum choice the base low cost Scyk is 29 (Cartel Spacer) at 32 it would be comparable to the Scyk which then needs to equip the Tractor Beam to it ship.

I think 4 is good because the Scyk needs to add the (3) upgrade to make it possible, the Tugboat has it built into the ship making it the cheaper more reliable option.