Luke/Vader are the ONLY force pilots i feel are right where they should be.

Problem is if your ability isnt augmenting the usual Force effect, you feel force starved all the dang time. Luke feeds the normal force ability, Vader can be smartly played where he doesnt NEED extra actions, Ezra is double-force if stressed basically, and Ventress's ship is overpriced imo so kinda hard to judge hers.

The rest are constantly force starved. Sister literally CANNOT use force normally if she wants her ability and Grand Inqy is often burning both in the same round for his ability just to stay alive.

Nevermind that the only Force upgrade* that doesnt auto-eat a force to get an effect is Sense, which while good is sorta lackluster if you arent PS5+ to begin with.

The two TIE Adv v1 pilots are the biggest problems of this imo but theyre not the only ones.

3 hours ago, gamblertuba said:

I expect/hope for a comprehensive rebalance of second edition ships and a token swipe at fixing the most egregious cards in extended.

Hope, sure. But expect, why?

Buffing everything means increasing the overall power curve in the game, which has the side effect of widening the gap between the players that know what the best lists and combinations are and the casuals that just throw stuff together on a whim. Synergy is still a big part of the game, and the good lists are still greater than the sum of their parts.

If we're just talking about points increases and decreases and not errata, here's my list:

Things to increase points:

Jonus (40)
Redline (48)
Trajectory Simulator (6)
Supernatural Reflexes (15)
Han Gunner (8)
Marauder Title (5)
Escape Craft (+2 to all named pilots)
Collision Detector (10)
Trick Shot (3)

Things to decrease points:

TIE Aggressor (-2)
TIE Adv Prototype (-2 to generics)
Patrol Leader (36)
All upgrades that grant force and require you to spend it for its ability
Marskmanship (0) I think this is safe at 0 points and would make bullseye matter in more games. Still has a cost of taking up a talent slot.
JM5K (-2 the named pilots) the game still probably can't handle 4 jumpmaster list.
M3A
Bomblet Generator (4) strictly worse than protons on ships with a reload action
VCX-100 (-4)
Phoenix Squadron
E-Wing (-3)
B-Wing (-1) crap dial and agi makes it equal to T-65 imo
Dash and Wild Spacer OR Outrider title. Leebo is fine and doesn't usually run w/ title
Chewbacca crew (2)
Leia Organa (4) Iconic characters deserve to be competitive

Upgrade slot adjustments:

+1 Talent slot for all A-Wings

Predator to 0 but Crackshot/Marksman stay 1pt?

I think a lot of nudges all over the place could be good, though it's definitely not worth going into exhaustive speculative detail over.

One example would be that I think Soontir needs a 1 point drop. It's tiny, I know, but even with all his tools I think he needs to be cheaper than Wedge to reflect just how flimsy 3 green dice and 3 hull is. He's 8 points higher than the next Interceptor pilot, and I think it's just a shade too much.

Beyond that, there are some bigger, more obvious changes.

I agree with all those who said Scum Han Gunner is way undercosted.

Marauder and Slave 1 titles probably need their points outright swapped, or at least go to 5 and 4 respectively. Marauder is straight up better than Slave 1 and that should be reflected in the points - FFG seem to massively overvalue 'crutch' upgrades that skilled players feel they can make up for with better decision making.

Missiles need an overhaul. Conc Missiles are useless at the current price point. IMO, they should be A-Wing's bread and butter and for that they need to be cheap.

Jonus, again as others have said, is a disaster. He should stand above the rest of the Bomber pilots by the same margin Howlrunner stands above the TIE Fighters.

E-Wing needs re-evaluating. I'm not convinced 3x Knaves with R2 astros would be as NPE or OP as some have suggested, so I don't really see the harm in a global points cut for them.

I can't decide where I stand on bombs and Traj Sim. I want to say they're too easy to use for how little they cost, but equally I don't think they're actually OP. Maybe they best fit among the nudges I mentioned initially.

Rebel Han needs help, but god knows how you balance him properly. I think that ability and chassis is always going to put him on the knife edge between OP and unusable. The lack of ability to make a good two ship list with him, or a three ship list with two strong generics has to be fixed, though. He needs a better wingman than a lone HWK or stripped down Luke.

2 minutes ago, Vineheart01 said:

Predator to 0 but Crackshot/Marksman stay 1pt?

Oops, meant Marksmanship to 0, fixed.

21 minutes ago, Tvboy said:

Oops, meant Marksmanship to 0, fixed.

And Predator to 1?

Eh Predator feels fine to me. 2pts is nothing but ive had several times where that extra point between it and marksman actually messed with me.

I could see crack/mark going down to 0. Really only Seyn completely abuses Marksman, everyone else it just makes the attack hurt more without adding hits so it doesnt help it actually HIT.

Crackshot is just bad. Since its primary only a LOT of pilots dont want it for that alone, but now its bullseye and only once? Give it a 2nd charge or 0pts i'll be happy with it.

Just now, CaptainIxidor said:

And Predator to 1?

I'm actually unsure about Predator, I think on some ships like low I generics it's a 1 point upgrade, but on something like Soontir that's probably too low. I think because of Soontir I'd keep Predator at 2 and generics with talents can take Crackshot if they want a 1 pt bullseye ability, since Crackshot is actually the better card if your'e less likely to get your bullseye.

1 minute ago, Vineheart01 said:

Eh Predator feels fine to me. 2pts is nothing but ive had several times where that extra point between it and marksman actually messed with me.

I could see crack/mark going down to 0. Really only Seyn completely abuses Marksman, everyone else it just makes the attack hurt more without adding hits so it doesnt help it actually HIT.

Crackshot is just bad. Since its primary only a LOT of pilots dont want it for that alone, but now its bullseye and only once? Give it a 2nd charge or 0pts i'll be happy with it.

Second charge for sure, but 0 points? No way... I really don't want to see a return of 0 point talents.

I actually think Crackshot is fine the way it is now. I think if you gave it more than 1 charge it would be too abusable on aces at 1 point. It would also make Chopper astromech way stronger, the equivalent of a 3 point R5 astro that repairs shields instead of hull, and I like Chopper where he's at now with Crackshot and Ablative Plating.

I think Marskmanship is fine as a 0 point talent. Honestly with old school Blinded Pilot no longer in the damage deck, I don't find crits to be as scary as everyone else, even when it means taking an extra damage 50% of the time. I acknowledge that there is a "feel bad" element if you're a player that hasn't bought a conversion kit and have an unused talent slot in your list, but I feel like that's a pretty narrow corner case. I think it's worth it if we actually see the bullseye arc being utilized more often as a mechanic within games. Right now it's just so difficult to line up bullseye shots that it doesn't make sense to spend points on abilities that use the mechanic.

Crits are more annoying than disabling now, which is good.

Its easier (i feel anyway) to get damage chained from crits, but you will never have that 1 crit that effectively just killed your ship, even though it still has 5 hull.

That, i am thankful is long gone....

Here's an interesting question: Which upgrade slots need updating?

I think A-Wings deserve to get another talent slot across all 4 pilots.

Kinda dont understand why they DIDNT have 2 talents to begin with, since they kept the interceptor multi-mod (and kfighter).

I'd love the Gunboat to get its 2nd cannon back even though i doubt it'll happen. Still really pissed they took that away when the bwing got a 2nd one, fully expecting a nasty 2cannon weapon that now imperials cant use.

I feel like the 2nd cannon slot on the B-Wing is a gift that nobody asked for. I would gladly give up the 2nd cannon slot for -1 points on the generic Bs and -2 points on the named Bs.

Does anyone take the expensive defenders anymore? At 80ish points I can't justify 1 let alone 2

Is Ryad really wirth 86 points before upgrades?

Oh Brath is suuuper worth it, Vessery is too if you have more than 1 buddy to feed him locks and Ryad can be so nimble now that they have native boost that she can be nigh impossible to even shoot, let alone damage (she kinda sacrifices offense to do this but its still awesome).

Generic defenders.....meh

If they do update slots and point costs, how do you think the app will deal with saved squads which are then illegal or have points left over? Not the point of this thread I know, but it follows on.

9 minutes ago, Handler said:

If they do update slots and point costs, how do you think the app will deal with saved squads which are then illegal or have points left over? Not the point of this thread I know, but it follows on.

It would probably just recalculate the totals. Having an illegal squad doesn't prevent you from saving.

You know what i find really good? That apart from a few very obvious ones like Quadjumpers, people don’t agree on anything in this thread. Which is a sign that the balancing is actually a lot better right now than one might think.

A second thing is that some might confound stuff that is competitively playable with overpowered. These two are not the same. Not everything that you see in a tournament is automatically doomed for a points increase ... there are also just strong options but that are not too strong, or allow for plenty of counterplay.

I won’t blame people however, because in 1.0 nearly every list you saw on top tables was better than other options by orders of magmitude in the end. We have to unlearn this, get it out of our heads.

14 hours ago, Tvboy said:

+  1        T   alent slot f  or a  ll A-Win    g  s

Oh yeah this so much.

Also, people only talk about point cost increases and decreases. Nobody remembers that they can also add slots to ships.

The A-Wing is really the one point where i am totally p***** with FFG. One ship to make all the wrong decisions in 2.0 is better than make some wrong decisions on all ships i guess.

I understand why they completely dumpstered Miranda or JM5Ks from 1st. It was just an overreaction.

But seriously, what has the A-Wing ever done to them? The costing is not even the problem. But the role they force it into.

It is an Ace platform gosh dangit. And they force it into a support and blocking role. It’s not bad at blocking admittedly, but an iconic ship like this needs a high PS (5 since 6 would be wishing too much) Ace with a selfish ability. If you wanna dumpster Tycho, that’s a decision, but then call him John Doe and give him any self-enhancing ability instead if you must, but give the A-Wing a worthy pilot.

And not having a real ace is honestly why we don’t see it played at all. Jake is nice and has a great ability, but at PS4 he doesn’t cut it, and if i need a support ship ima get Kyle or one of the other real support ships like Dutch and Garven, or a U-Wing with some crew.

They have so many ships to explore Rebel support faction identity. But they also needed to pick the ship whose role it really should be to play as an interceptor and small missile strike craft. It should be duking it out with the interceptors and fangs out there, with less firepower and cheaper unless they pick missiles.

And since it’s not a point or slot issue, the ship is just dead for the whole edition i guess. Such a pity really, to botch one of the iconic original ships again.

4 hours ago, ForceM said:

You know what i find really good? That apart from a few very obvious ones like Quadjumpers, people don’t agree on anything in this thread. Which is a sign that the balancing is actually a lot better right now than one might think.

If only this were true. Overall, balance isn't terrible. But! bitter experience has taught me that a vocal minority on this board will defend anything. Any. Thing.

There were folks (probably still are) that argued that pre-nerf phantoms were fine. Palpatine shouldn't have been nerfed. Freaking TLT! I argued more than a sane person should with folks that said TLT was fair and balanced.

Just because people argue that "X" is fine, don't mean that "X" is fine. Maybe those people are wrong. That being said, seems to my little brain that the few things that should be addressed are the handful of options that are: shall we say "aggressively costed" and also tend to create very unpopular gameplay experiences. Namely Gunrunner Tugboats and Tragedy Stimulator.

On 10/13/2018 at 12:04 AM, ForceM said:

I won’t blame people however, because in 1.0 nearly every list you saw on top tables was better than other options by orders of magmitude in the end. We have to unlearn this, get it out of our heads.

It's not as bad as 1.0, no (yet; it's early) ... but every competitive 2.0 list includes one or two pilots or upgrades from a list of only about 10 cards.

That's not good. I really had high hopes that FFG had learned from 1.0, but so far they're making me look foolish for the optimism I'd expressed.

20 hours ago, gamblertuba said:

If only this were true. Overall, balance isn't terrible. But! bitter experience has taught me that a vocal minority on this board will defend anything. Any. Thing.

There were folks (probably still are) that argued that pre-nerf phantoms were fine. Palpatine shouldn't have been nerfed. Freaking TLT! I argued more than a sane person should with folks that said TLT was fair and balanced.

Just because people argue that "X" is fine, don't mean that "X" is fine. Maybe those people are wrong. That being said, seems to my little brain that the few things that should be addressed are the handful of options that are: shall we say "aggressively costed" and also tend to create very unpopular gameplay experiences. Namely Gunrunner Tugboats and Tragedy Stimulator.

That’s also just your opinion. I would agree on the Tugboats, but not at all on the simulator for example.

This is what i meant. People are all over the place with their propositions for point cost increases and decreases on most cards. Which to me is a very good sign.

Tugboats are mentioned everywhere though, so there is probably a point where something needs to happen with the costing. But it’s indeed a rare case where i can see some kind of agreement.

On 10/13/2018 at 4:14 AM, Vineheart01 said:

Sense, which while good is sorta lackluster if you arent PS5+ to begin with

I'd much prefer sense on lower initiative pilots, so that my other pilots (such as bombers or phantoms) can make use of it during the systems phase. Furthermore, sense is only useful against pilots moving after me (because otherwise I can see their dial normally) so sense isn't much use on a high initiative pilot.