So wanted a thread that looks at what expectations are for the TIE S/F.

This ship was either seen as a huge success to come or was written off completely when originally announced in 1.0.

Once on Tables it was still a mixed bag until Light Weight Frame came into the fray. Then the S/F really took off other things continued to make the ship more and more popular. Least of which was Quickdraw at PS9. The Dial was decent but not overwhelming. The Free Title really was part of the shining glow it did get.

2.0 and the way ships have been reworked puts the S/F back into it’s unusual spot of what’s it going to do or be? The new Ship Ability is interesting, yet seems situational, not to mention not many great options for Missles currently. The Pilots are also interesting to where they will place. There were 2 Generics and 2 Named. If they keep 2 do they go I2 I4 . I4 Backdraft and I5 Quickdraw? Not sure if they will let QD with his ability go at 6, my personal opinion is he will be I5.

The Dial is also a curiosity. Will the improve it? Other than maybe adding some type of K turn or reducing a couple of the red turns is all they could feasibly add or change. Otherwise the dial it had was excellent overall. Slot wise it is also going to be curious. I can see the Gunner which we already know it will have, the Tech upgrade the F/O has. Not sure if it will have a sensor slot still it should though. It may not, though it could pick up 2 mod slots which normal TIEs only get 1.

It should still be stout in a role similar to the X1. Much like the X1 it is a beefier TIE can carry missles, and with help gets a Third Dice out the Primary arc. So what types of expectations do you have for this ship?

Reserved for post release comments and thoughts.

The thing I'm maybe most curious about is future gunner possibilities. Perhaps munitions based. Currently, the S/F gunner looks fairly stapled on.

Also price ofc. 5 dials in the kit could mean 40pt tops for the lowest generic. Presuming the S/F gunner comes at something like double figures. If they still have 6 health, a swarm of naked generics might be interesting.... That's a lot of arcs and a lot of hit points. And a lot of ships I don't own.

An Upsilon enabling 3 S/F's also seems interesting. Particularly on the alpha with Dormitz and Hyperwave. May not be feasible though.

allot of diffrent questions comes to mind

But one above all! Will we get a I 6 pilot? , and will it be poe?

We know that "Midnight" (Omega Leader) is an I6 within the faction. Most factions have two I6 pilots. We also know that Kylo is only I5. This makes it possible that Quickdraw will be made an I6.

I think they have to improve the dial. White 3 turns (red in 1.0) would be the best start. With the LWF card out of action in 2.0, I think the price point for these ships needs to go down to reflect the lower defense rating they have in 2.0.

No matter how they shape out, it will be good to get Backdraft back on the table...

I really look forward to trying out the missiles out of the rear arc. I also am curious to see how both the /sf and the RZ-2 A-Wing do with their rotating/flipping arcs. I suspect that those two ships are going to feel very different from any of the other ships we have in other factions and that makes them awesome.

I loved TIE/sf in 1e, even generic ones, and I'm generally hopeful for 2e.

I like how they've set up the arc mechanic. Having linked white reloads (there's a leaked image out there... I can never find it if I look for it) on each of their actions means you can swing the arc either front or back as needed, but you've got to make a choice at your own ship's initiative. It feels right that they changed like this, in the same way out-of-arc attacking turrets were all replaced by mobile arcs. Missile rather than Gunner based TIE/sf seem like a nifty concept, if the price is right.

Backdraft has been semi-leaked, and it looks like they can get an extra die in the rear arc, rather than just adding a crit. That's fair. This is 2e, and getting a random die instead of a specific result added doesn't seem wrong. If there's a Quickdraw, I don't think it'll be too broken, because overall action efficiency is down. There's no Expertise + FCS anymore, and FCS is weaker here. Without Lightweight Frame, it'll be a lot easier to lose multiple shields in a turn. But because those synergies are gone, I honestly wouldn't mind if QD didn't come back. If there was some new ace with some new ability, that'd be fun too.

I like how the new Special Forces gunner works. 3-dice full forward. 2 dice front/back double taps. But you've got to commit. To me, this is the epitome of what we asked for in 2e: that skill is brought back to replace "it just works" abilities. Meanwhile, it's about choice , not about inefficiency .

Contrast the kind of awkward TIE Advanced x1. They've got great green dice, so would love to focus, and can even use a linked barrel roll off the focus. But they need to take TLs to gain the attack dice they'd need to justify their price. They'd be great flankers, if they had a Boost action, but they don't. They cost the same as an X-Wing and more than a Kihraxz, but don't have the same flexibility in action choices. If compared to a Starviper or a M3-A Scyk, I guess they're not too oddly priced. Starviper doesn't need the TL for their 3 dice, and cost about 5 points more. Scyk with an extra hit point costs about 5 points less. About 5 points for a "cannon" which only fires at ships you have a Target Lock on, and that allows you to turn a hit to a crit seems fair-ish. But the Advanced feels like it struggles to do what it wants to do.

The TIE/sf seems like it'll just work. You've got to think ahead, but it doesn't cost you anything. You're not forced into inefficient actions or stress.

//

But a lot will come down to price. With the SF Gunner, it'll be 3 red dice, 2 agility, 6 HP, like an X-Wing or a Kihraxz. Those are priced in the low 40s, as well as the B-Wing (and 1 agility, 8 HP has typically been priced similar to 2 agility, 6 HP). Rear arc shots are a neat trick, but how much is that worth? While the rotates are linked, they don't have other linked actions like a B-Wing. They don't have the cool S-Foils tricks. They've got a great hull/shield ratio, but fundamentally they don't look like they ought to be priced radically different. 41 would be surprising to me, 42 is my hope, 43 is probably fine, 44 is the limit, and 45 is going too far. If these wind up being priced more like ARCs than X-Wings, that'll seem wrong to me.

Without a gunner... it seems a lot like a Y-Wing or a TIE Bomber. 2/2/3/3 is fairly close to 2/2/6/0 or 2/1/5/3. The 1e TIE/sf dial hasn't been that different, with a high degree of red moves. Compared to a Bomber, this will have fewer ordnance options and no reload, but better hull/shields, and the rear arc. If each hull-converted-to-a-shield is worth an extra 1 point, that'd be 31, and a half-a-Dorsal-turret seems worth maybe 2 points, 33. A Y-Wing with half a Dorsal added is 34.

So if it's 34 for the ship, 8 for the gunner, that seems about right to me. I want every ship I love to be cheaper, but still.

@theBitterFig , well said and, above all, honest.

I appreciate honesty, very very much.

Hopefully, you'll make a grand opponent one day for my T-70s.

2 hours ago, theBitterFig said:

(there's a leaked image out there... I can never find it if I look for it)

Bam!

I'd forgotten about rear arc missiles. Quite looking fwd to this ship.

Missiles can only be fired from your turret arc which is quite interesting.

Backdraft will definitely be strong because you can probably pay them without the SF Gunner tax.

One thing is that they can’t be equipped with the Veteren Turret Gunner because they don’t have a native rotate arc action, only liked. So it’s likely that the SF gunner is the most viable option anyway.

Obviously we don’t know points but Hotshot Gunner and Juke across the Talented generics (like 4 of them) could be pretty devastating even with just 2 dice attacks.

Having just watched the first episode of Resistance the new Red Baron in the FO interceptor could easily be a 6 which means maybe Quickdraw won’t be - though Scum and Rebels are already at 3 I6 Pilots each.

Speaking of the SF gunner, I really hope there is a named one. That would fit the design philosophy and make the gunner tax for the SF probably worth it.

Backdraft was favorite pilot in 1.0 . I am excited and optimistic for the TIE/SF. I wouldnt mind if it got a 5 straight to reflect the whole "this thing really moves" quote.

Too bad you can't put prockets on it to take advantage of the rear-fire option; you still need the Bulls-eye arc.

Yeah, the rear firing missiles are a pretty much nothing upgrade at the moment; there just aren't any good missiles to use except Barrage.

I just imagined having concs on 3 of them, Huxing TLs on them from an Upsilon on the 1st pass, zooming them off and slamming the Ups into a stationary roadblock, then rear firing all your missiles with TL + focus....

You just need an opponent who thinks jousting this set up in a nice tight block will be fine ....

I had not previously associated FO with jank.