4 minutes ago, JJ48 said:For now, just the current planning phase, and just my own ships. Once I get to the point where I can reliably remember what order my ships are moving in so that they don't mess each other up, then I'll start worrying about what the opponent's doing.
...though that would also be much easier if I had any clue what maneuvers the opponent's ships had. Or my ships, come to think of it.
Would a cheat sheet help? Can use this to set them up.
2 minutes ago, Hiemfire said:Would a cheat sheet help? Can use this to set them up.
Thanks! It's probably not my biggest problem, but not being familiar with how different ships can move (especially ones that I don't use myself, such as pretty much any Scum ship) can make planning that much more difficult.
8 minutes ago, JJ48 said:Thanks! It's probably not my biggest problem, but not being familiar with how different ships can move (especially ones that I don't use myself, such as pretty much any Scum ship) can make planning that much more difficult.
@J1mBob
is the guy who put it together. Thank him
One planning phase. And with the „Tugboat meta“ right now, might as well throw it overboard, because your ships will not be where they want to...
I try to visualize the approach, which is maybe three turns ahead. But I wouldn't call that planning since I don't memorize every dial I would need for. It's more like rough sketch of likely ship positions of opposing ships and how I want to place myself relative to that.
When the engagement comes it gets down to 0-1 phases ahead, depending on the intensity. My minimum goal is to think about how to get away next turn, especially when close to rocks. Which is not always achieved.
Once there is more room to cover, like after a few ships have gone or I need to disengage and reengage, I again try to think in larger move maps.
ok this will surprise a few of the people who play against me regularly (i have a reputation for being hard to predict), i actually plan anything upto 3 turns ahead.
this is entirely due to having a background of playing chess growing up, where a planned but adaptable strategy helps alot.
I put "the next turn", but it sort of depends on well we define that.
Most of the time, that usually just means "keeping BR/decloak/supernatural" options maximized, not really the manuevers themselves. To me, that is
barely
thinking the turn ahead, but I guess technically meets the definition.
Once I see my opponent's moves, however, I am basically pre-setting dials for the next turn in my head, or quite possibly actually setting my dials while we're doing combat.
It depends entirely on the phase of the game.
For the opening, I have very likely 3 turns in mind that I'm going to do, with possible adjustments depending on the opponent. I started doing that after reading Jonathan Scott's great Finger Four article on 4 Awings. He has openings with small variations (e.g. move 14 lengths: do 1 5+boost+2+2, or 5+5+boost if faster is necessary) and then transitions. So I will have an opening or two, and two transitions. That means the first 3 or even 4 turns are mapped out and I know what I'm going to do, with small adjustments of course.
In the midgame I just take it as it comes. That is, once the initial volley is over I will fly with an exit in mind, but that's not really thinking ahead. And after we lost some ships and I have just an arcdodger left, I will think more ahead again. That's my favorite part of the game.
30 minutes ago, Tlfj200 said:I put "the next turn", but it sort of depends on well we define that.
Didn't give it to much explanation but next turn broadly means thinking about your movement options for next turn ( Not an opener ).
Setting up pre-movement options does count for that at a minimum.
I am surprised by how many people have suggested they think 2 turns out.
Thats not something I have ever been able to do successfully unless its very early or very late in the game.
Even cycling through current turn options is difficult and something I do not always do efficiently or prioritized/focused on the right possibilities.
Edited by Boom OwlOne turn, not including the current one, typically. Sometimes I'll start to consider second turn out for disengagement lanes/strategies and for reloads, but all that said, I tend to live by "No plan survives contact with the enemy" so I try to keep it as simple and flexible as possible.
23 minutes ago, Boom Owl said:I am surprised by how many people have suggested they think 2 turns out.
Thats not something I have ever been able to do successfully unless its very early or very late in the game.
I'm also surprised. What does "thinking about a turn" mean?
Is it a general idea of where you want to go over a couple of turns? Or is it a detailed decision matrix where you consider different options for different previous moves?
When I first started playing I tried to think several turns ahead. I found while there are certain things you can think about several turns ahead, specifics are difficult as what the opponent does will change the board anyway.
Thinking too hard about what you want to do with ship A for the next several turns often will leave you not reacting properly to what your opponents ship A is doing.
Taking things one turn at a time while being mindful of things like stress or ion damage that will affect the following turn seems best.
2 hours ago, GreenDragoon said:What does "thinking about a turn" mean?
I believe it means thinking about the concept of turns. What exactly is turning? Is a game round round enough to turn, perhaps? How do we calculate the angular momentum of the turn?
I don't have the answers, but I suppose that's what these forums are here for.
Edited by JJ483 minutes ago, JJ48 said:I believe it means thinking about the concept of turns. What exactly is turning? Is a game round round enough to turn, perhaps? How do we calculate the angular momentum of the turn?
I don't have the answers, but I suppose that's what these forums are here for.
But joke aside, what do you mean when saying you think a turn ahead?
Trying to plan 2+ turns ahead is like planning your steering wheel turns and gas/break pedals when you're driving on the interstate. You have an overall destination a long way away, but you use fine control to deal with the situation as it comes up. The gas/breaks/steering wheel are applied as needed to get you to the destination, but they are not necessarily planned ahead.
Yeah, I put "2 turns" out, so "this one and the next dial", but I suppose what I really meant is that I make sure that this round's maneuvers give me options for next round. For example, not landing my strikers in front of a rock they will have to Adaptive Ailerons over next round. Or back when several ships had multiple K-turn speeds, "I want to K-turn close so I am at range 2, but clearing stress may be difficult if I'm that close to the enemy, so I should do the long K-turn this time."
6 minutes ago, Biophysical said:The gas/breaks/steering wheel are applied as needed to get you to the destination, bu t they are not necessarily planned ahead.
That‘s a great analogy. I understood the thread to be about the gas/breaks/steering.
11 minutes ago, GreenDragoon said:But joke aside, what do you mean when saying you think a turn ahead?
Spoilsport.
Personally, if I'm just looking at this turn, I'm trying to glimpse the board state going into the Engagement Phase. Thinking one turn ahead, then, is trying to figure out the state for next turn's Engagement Phase, if that makes sense.
I think an overall view of how you want your ships to fly is good, but planning a turn or two ahead, to me, means figuring out specifically what to do to get there, and how you can thwart your opponent's attempts to do the same thing.
17 minutes ago, Biophysical said:Trying to plan 2+ turns ahead is like planning your steering wheel turns and gas/break pedals when you're driving on the interstate. You have an overall destination a long way away, but you use fine control to deal with the situation as it comes up. The gas/breaks/steering wheel are applied as needed to get you to the destination, but they are not necessarily planned ahead.
That is why the plan for the second turn out needs to be loose. While some of the keys can be laid out, the specifics are refined for that one in then next turn while you set up the soft plan for two turns out. Have a strong idea but be willing to discard it based on what changes.
19 minutes ago, Biophysical said:Trying to plan 2+ turns ahead is like planning your steering wheel turns and gas/break pedals when you're driving on the interstate. You have an overall destination a long way away, but you use fine control to deal with the situation as it comes up. The gas/breaks/steering wheel are applied as needed to get you to the destination, but they are not necessarily planned ahead.
If you're driving casual, sure. In professional racing, they kind of do plan out when to brake, by how much, for how long; and they plan out how they'll turn to get precisely the line they want. They may have to adjust their plan based on their car performance, track conditions, and other drivers, but they do have a plan.
I've pretty much planned out the whole game for AdvS Ryad. 5 straight, 5 straight, 5 straight, 5 straight...
I always ask myself "if you do this and he does that what will next turn look like?" Then if your "if your ships are there next turn does that leave you screwed the turn after"
I then reiterate that though process through several combinations of what my opponent could do over the next few turns.
However I am constantly doing this throughout the entire game, my opponents think I play fast but my dails usually go down quickly because I have already planned for the current scenario not something similar. If you catch me doing a big think it's because you completely fooled me or something went very wrong.
I always think 3+ games ahead, sadly I don't know what is happening between now and that 3rd game.
23 hours ago, Biophysical said:I set dials for one, very occasionally two turns ahead. I plan for longer than that, though. I have goals and advantageous positions that I work toward, but there's not much point in planning in detail when so much can change in a turn.
13 hours ago, Tlfj200 said:I put "the next turn", but it sort of depends on well we define that.
Most of the time, that usually just means "keeping BR/decloak/supernatural" options maximized, not really the manuevers themselves. To me, that is barely thinking the turn ahead, but I guess technically meets the definition.
Once I see my opponent's moves, however, I am basically pre-setting dials for the next turn in my head, or quite possibly actually setting my dials while we're doing combat.
This is more or less how I approach things.
Granted, this has much to do with my ship choices. 95% of my lists have a Striker, Defender, Phantom, Interceptor, Star Viper… you get the idea. High initiative pilots with reposition and an acute allergy to getting shot. So, broadly speaking, my positions tend to be highly reactive, with lots of boosts and barrel rolls.
So when I set my dial I have two basic criteria: how many options does this give me after my move, how many options will I have the next turn. So I think where my opponents ships are likely to be, and always try to maximize exit lanes for the next turn.
But often my next turn plan is, essentially, ‘if go here, I’ll be able to boost/ barrel roll into flank for next turn’. Given the fractal possibilities of an Echo or a Guri, that’s all really that is possible.
Opening engagements are a bit different, usually I have a 3-4 plan turn on how to lure my opponent into rocks/ get flank with my ace/ get behind them where they will be unable to return fire. It doesn’t always work, but I am generally effective at forcing my opponent to either break formation through rocks, or let me get complete flank with one ship. Which is how Guri wins.