Rebels op, pls nerf

The Empire has some fun stuff that feels great to fly. Aces are back, in a big way, and they have some good ordnance carriers. Defenders really feel like advanced, expensive prototypes

Scum has Boba, Guri, and other monsters who can be deadly in skilled hands.

Rebels feel a bit undercooked right at the moment. Not a lot of synergy or identity. But I've flown them the least of all in 2.0, so what do I know?

I would vote for Imperial, because Tie Punishers seem crazy efficient and counter a lot of strategies. Combined with the strong Aces you have a really good package.

Second Place would go to Scum, because Boba with Han Gunner is probably the best ship for its point cost and Guri is also really good. While Scum has also some good choices for swarm lists, most of their ships are seriously lacking.

Last place would go to Rebels, because they have as few really good ships as Scum, but not one that is as strong as Boba/Han atm.

Don't think empire and scum are all that different. Rebels, though...while they may have some outs, their viable options seem rather small to me.

I've been thinking about this a little bit. I think there are a couple of ways to look at this.

The first is I think the OP is asking which faction has the most powerful combos or most powerful lists. That answer is..... all of them. Or none of them. Basically, they are all balanced and viable. Every faction can make a really solid list that can be played by a good player and you can win. I've seen really good lists beat me from any faction. I've beaten every faction with really good lists that I've made (from every faction). I don't think there is a weakness in any of the factions. I mean, if you fly badly, you can lose.

With that in mind, I think a lot depends on the player and their way of playing. To me, that's really cool, though. This is a time when almost any list idea is good, if it's played right. The best thing about this is that it is all up to personal preference and skill. What is "right" might work for one list or even person, but not another. In other words, if someone netlists with a list, but doesn't know how to fly it, they lose hard. Then again, someone with an obscure/crazy list that works for them....can beat many people.

I do want to implore those netlisters to try something that they like. I've met people that say they can't build lists and just like to copy winning ones. Try to make something that YOU want to fly in a way that you like. That's my advice.

10 hours ago, heychadwick said:

I've been thinking about this a little bit. I think there are a couple of ways to look at this.

The first is I think the OP is asking which faction has the most powerful combos or most powerful lists. That answer is..... all of them. Or none of them. Basically, they are all balanced and viable. Every faction can make a really solid list that can be played by a good player and you can win. I've seen really good lists beat me from any faction. I've beaten every faction with really good lists that I've made (from every faction). I don't think there is a weakness in any of the factions. I mean, if you fly badly, you can lose.

With that in mind, I think a lot depends on the player and their way of playing. To me, that's really cool, though. This is a time when almost any list idea is good, if it's played right. The best thing about this is that it is all up to personal preference and skill. What is "right" might work for one list or even person, but not another. In other words, if someone netlists with a list, but doesn't know how to fly it, they lose hard. Then again, someone with an obscure/crazy list that works for them....can beat many people.

I do want to implore those netlisters to try something that they like. I've met people that say they can't build lists and just like to copy winning ones. Try to make something that YOU want to fly in a way that you like. That's my advice.

well said. the game is in good shape if you can win with what you like to fly. Thats where 1.0 got crazy and started to lose its appeal for some players. Bravo FFG. I still want my Moldy Crow title put into the Scum Conversion kit tho... you screwed scum players by leaving that out. Palob is one of scums best pilots. Without that title he's like whisper without juke or an x-wing wout that cool s-foils upgrade.

IMO Empire.

Looking at Coruscant, one could see Empire dominating and quite varied imperial lists performing well, which IMO shows they have depth: multiple ships&combos that can do well.

Regarding Scum, one might argue that they were put at a disadvantage due to not being able to field Boba in a Firespray and they might have performed way better otherwise. While that might be true (I think it is and they did win Gold Squadron Classic), if their power sits mainly in Boba Fett pilot, I wouldn't say they're in a good place.

As for Rebels, I'm not sure. They too were at a disadvantage at Coruscant due to Leia, but for them I really don't see any top notch squads atm.

50 minutes ago, LordBlades said:

IMO Empire.

Looking at Coruscant, one could see Empire dominating and quite varied imperial lists performing well, which IMO shows they have depth: multiple ships&combos that can do well.

Regarding Scum, one might argue that they were put at a disadvantage due to not being able to field Boba in a Firespray and they might have performed way better otherwise. While that might be true (I think it is and they did win Gold Squadron Classic), if their power sits mainly in Boba Fett pilot, I wouldn't say they're in a good place.

As for Rebels, I'm not sure. They too were at a disadvantage at Coruscant due to Leia, but for them I really don't see any top notch squads atm.

for Rebels, i think FFG designers invested buffs into the x-wing. I think they wanted the x-wing ship itself to be more of a showpiece for rebels. Luke and wedge in particular seem really strong but i agree that there doesnt seem to be many obvious power lists for rebels right now. This could be deliberate. Maybe FFG has plans for buffing rebels in the near future with point reductions??

I’m curious to see what pilots and upgrades are still in the pipeline and how it might affect the power balance, especially for the Rebels. It seems they don’t have as many options now and, like others have said, their identity seems a little nonexistent comparatively speaking. I’m hoping they get some more good stuff in the upcoming expacs that will give a little more synergy across more ships.

1 hour ago, LordBlades said:

IMO Empire.

Looking at Coruscant, one could see Empire dominating and quite varied imperial lists performing well, which IMO shows they have depth: multiple ships&combos that can do well.

Regarding Scum, one might argue that they were put at a disadvantage due to not being able to field Boba in a Firespray and they might have performed way better otherwise. While that might be true (I think it is and they did win Gold Squadron Classic), if their power sits mainly in Boba Fett pilot, I wouldn't say they're in a good place.

As for Rebels, I'm not sure. They too were at a disadvantage at Coruscant due to Leia, but for them I really don't see any top notch squads atm.

Scum is in the same place that the Empire/FO was prior to Reapers.

Boba in a Firespray is the linchpin that Quickdraw was 1.0. It doesn't mean they're not in a good place, in fact, their best tools are probably stronger than almost everything available to both other factions right now.

There are A LOT of lists that involve Boba in a Firespray. In a large, non-restricted tournament, you're going to see a very different field.

That doesn't invalidate Coruscant, we learned a lot of interesting things, but don't suggest Scum doesn't have what is probably the single strongest building-block to a list in the game at the moment.

I think Imperials are probably in the best spot. Killer aces, potent cheap swarm options, and a lot of different ways to build them.

For Rebels, I think you have to build around their ability to Coordinate. AP-5 is a dirt cheap option at 30 points, and can even pass actions along to stressed ships. U-Wings with Tactical Officers are also a pretty solid option thanks to the improved maneuverability provided by the new Pivot Wing. This lets your aces take those fully modified shots for better damage potential.

For an inveterate arc dodger like me, I see each with options.

Rebel X-wing aces are deadly. Triple or quad X-wings with any combination of Luke, Wedge, Thane, Biggs, or even the I3 generics are all solid ships. Dutch is all right. Benthic with sensors is a good support ship that is unblockable. They’re not in a bad place, if you like X-wings

Empire has lots of viable. Interceptors, Strikers, Bombers, Phantoms, **** even Reapers or Lambdas with the right crew. Lots of archetypes. There perhaps the most ‘broad’ faction in viable styles. No one mandatory ship.

Scum has some great options. Guri is freaking amazing. The last 7 games I’ve played Guri/Palob and a rotating cast of 40-50 point filler. It is super good. If you can fly it. Guri is like Soontir, great if you can set up in good position, but does not like when you screw up. More so even than Soontir because price, she’s been running at 91 for me. An eye watering price for a single small ship, but worth every one. Might be my single favorite ship to fly, more than even defenders perhaps. But even with only 2/3 of the list set I’ve gone 6-1, facing some high end competition. Aside from my favorite, there seem to be a number of other useful pieces. The G1-A has some great pilot options, 0-0-0 4-Lom is good, Boba and the Firespray in general seems solid, the scum Falcon is getting its paces. It doesn’t match the efficiency lists of empire, but it does have probably the best ‘mix and match’ trickster options.

What I've liked about scum and empire second edition is that just about every ship has "a thing" it can do eveno outside the combos people are already salivating over after but one event.

Xg Vynder with ion and protons is amazing fun. Barrage, ICT kestal with ruthless is just murderous v all these popular, squishy aces. Palp on a reaper is great! The cartel executioner is deceptively potent with r5-p8. Mux is a beast etc.

imo, on the top end everyone is basically even. I feel otherwise feel, however, that rebs are missing a lot of upgrades

Xwings and Sabine shuttle are all so great I'd field them even without upgrades, and id def field the rebel moldy. But ships like my lovely K or ARC...they just don't got much going for them ATM

13 hours ago, bydand said:

Scum is in the same place that the Empire/FO was prior to Reapers.

Boba in a Firespray is the linchpin that Quickdraw was 1.0. It doesn't mean they're not in a good place, in fact, their best tools are probably stronger than almost everything available to both other factions right now.

There are A LOT of lists that involve Boba in a Firespray. In a large, non-restricted tournament, you're going to see a very different field.

That doesn't invalidate Coruscant, we learned a lot of interesting things, but don't suggest Scum doesn't have what is probably the single strongest building-block to a list in the game at the moment.

I agree, Boba is by far the strongest piece in Scum and possibly in the game too.

However, I don't think even the best Boba squads are stronger than the best Empire squads. IMO they are around the same level.

That's the reason I rate Empire higher than Scum: Scum has only 1 way to get there (Boba) while the Empire has several.

Empire or Scum.

Imperials seem like they've got the best ships right now. Not always the best upgrades, but Phantoms are wicked strong, Punishers have surprisingly become very good, and they can fill out squads pretty well. Pocket-Ace Soontir Fel is wicked fun--maybe Predator and go. I know some folks feel Defenders are expensive, but they still feel OK to me.

Scum are strong. Boba is potent. Guri is a strong ace. Fenn Rau is potent. Han Solo (whether Gunner or Ship) is too cheap for what he can accomplish. I feel like the raw generic ships aren't necessarily better, but the pilot abilities tend to be good, and they have probably the only good cheap crew and gunners in X-Wing right now.

Rebels... they just don't seem to have the juice. Scum HWK is probably a bit better. X-Wings are solid, but not too much stands out. ARCs are pricey, and there aren't good cheap gunners/crew to fill them with. B-Wings and U-Wings probably aren't too bad, but they're like 1e, where to really leverage their strengths you need to start adding on upgrades, and then they aren't as cost efficient as they need to anymore. A-Wings lack a true ace, and no other rebel ship can really do the arc dodge stuff like Soontir or Whisper or Guri or Fenn can do. The small-base support ships all seem weaker. Their force-user crew are a bit overpriced, too.

Most large-base ships are pretty unimpressive right now (all three Rebel ones, Lancer, Jumpmaster, Decimator all seem meh). Scum Falcon is wicked cheap but can put in work with all the bonus attack dice it can scrounge up. Lambda feels improved over 1e. The new action bar (reinforce and coordinate are strong) and rear firing arc have impressed me.

Imperials are number one. They have the greatest amount of ships that are "pretty good" and a few ships that are possibly "too good". In the faction, Interceptors, Strikers, Bombers, Punishers, TIE Advanced, TIE fighters, lambdas, and defenders are all competitive and capable of winning against most of the playing field.

Next is scum. Scum is sort of a mixed bag. They have what are arguably the best pilots in the game (Boba and Fenn) along with some other quite capable ones (Guri, Palob, other named Fangs). However, I have not seen much of anything else for scum. It seems like most of their other ships could be somewhat decent, but why would you play them when you can play Boba, Fenn, and friends? Scum are limited in the sense that I think that it is the faction where it has been solved already. If you want to win a lot with Scum, used one of the above mentioned ships. If you aren't stop and ask yourself why you aren't playing the ones that are obviously leaps and bounds ahead of their comrades.

Dead last is Rebels. Rebels are the swap meet faction: piles of useless junk everywhere with some real valuable treasures buried among them. It was the biggest victim of hype as well (which I know I am guilty of). Luke Pilot is amazing, one of the best in the game, if not the best and a few of the other named X-Wings are quite strong as well (Wedge and Thane). X-Wings are the clear front men of the faction, so the lists that win will be made up of mostly X-Wings or entirely X-Wings. Moldy Crow is over-hyped junk and the rebel pilots still need to be cheaper for it. U-Wings, B-Wings, and Z-95s are decent; not too powerful or too weak and can have a good variety of competent builds. AP-5 is the only sheathipede worth taking, but as such, he's one of the best values in the faction. Other than these mentioned, everything else is either overpriced, mediocre, forced into FSR play-style (and bad), or some combination of these. Y-Wings are just okay, but I don't think we're going to see them very often on top tables. Like many rebel ships, they just are too immobile and too squishy to not feel bad about dumping points into them.

So yeah, Imperials, then Scum, then Rebels in last.

I don't know about "powerful", but Scum are certainly the most irritating to play against. As far as Palob goes, I think he'd be at least a little less frustrating if Moldy Crow were Rebel-only.

44 minutes ago, JJ48 said:

I don't know about "powerful", but Scum are certainly the most irritating to play against. As far as Palob goes, I think he'd be at least a little less frustrating if Moldy Crow were Rebel-only.

**** off with that

The hwk is absolutely worthless without Moldy Crow

Palob is a little less frustrating if you just focus his I 5, 5 health *** down asap

I've seen a lot of people misplay around palob, leaving him for last or not focusing AT ALL when around him (he can only steal ONE token, guys!!!!) and forgetting that some ships can TL. But once you learn to account for him, it's very challenging for his player to keep him alive

anyway, on the topic of Scum faction I agree it's probably easier to run named pilots in a multi-game tournie, but they have lots of viable ships imo

Obvious top dogs are Boba but also Drea, who enables some potent swarms

Named Fangs, Guri, and Moldy Crow are also great

But if you want to try lower I squads, I heartily encourage Moldy Mux. He has especially great synergy with "risky offense" such as Fearless and r5p8 since you can initiave kill anyone before they retaliate

Speaking of r5p8, a simple cartel executioner becomes a very potent threat with this little droid. Full mods, occasional bullseye, surprising medium base speed, and honest to God THREE TURNS is great for 48 points. Highly recommend

Also, the Cartel Marauder khiraxz is really **** solid and Quadjumper seem exceptional in this Ed

There's plenty to explore in scum (still have to crack into the yt1300 too!), it's just not as cruise-control as higher I arcdodgers sometimes tend to be

Gonna try the yt-1300 soon I hope. Interested in Han with Hotshot and 4lom (plus the obvious trickshot and 0-0-0). Could be a potent ace killer, especially if you use Dengar gunner instead

1 hour ago, ficklegreendice said:

**** off with that

The hwk is absolutely worthless without Moldy Crow

If the ship is "absolutely worthless" without doubling its arc and letting it stack tokens, then maybe it needs a point reduction or a redesign, rather than making upgrades that it can't function without. You may as well just increase the cost of every HWK and make the title free, then, like Gunboat or X-Wing configurations. The fact that they didn't do this indicates that the ships are intended to be able to be flown without the title, and if they can't be, then there's a deeper issue. Palob's ability would still be quite good without the title; he just may need to actually use a rotate action occasionally.

I just don't see why Kyle's ship should fight for Scum when Kyle himself won't.

8 minutes ago, JJ48 said:

I just don't see why Kyle's ship should fight for Scum when Kyle himself won't.

Because Kyle’s ship wasn’t always Kyle’s... and was in fact flown by Dace Bonearm and Palob Godalhi.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Moldy_Crow

2 minutes ago, WAC47 said:

Because Kyle’s ship wasn’t always Kyle’s... and was in fact flown by Dace Bonearm and Palob Godalhi.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Moldy_Crow

Fair enough. Then FFG, please make it something far more reasonable. Or better yet, make Palob far more reasonable.

3 minutes ago, JJ48 said:

Fair enough. Then FFG, please make it something far more reasonable. Or better yet, make Palob far more reasonable.

Then may I suggest you also start a campaign to make Vader Crew more reasonable as well?

6 minutes ago, SabineKey said:

Then may I suggest you also start a campaign to make Vader Crew more reasonable as well?

Not really sure I agree that having to spend a token to give the opponent a choice about removing a token is quite the same as not paying anything to remove a token from an opponent AND gain a token himself, but if it's a huge issue, then sure. Let's figure out how to fix Vader, too.

Make both of them only trigger if you're not stressed and haven't performed an action that round, so there's an opportunity cost. (Probably 0-0-0 too, while we're at it.)

2 minutes ago, JJ48 said:

Not really sure I agree that having to spend a token to give the opponent a choice about removing a token is quite the same as not paying anything to remove a token from an opponent AND gain a token himself, but if it's a huge issue, then sure. Let's figure out how to fix Vader, too.

Make both of them only trigger if you're not stressed and haven't performed an action that round, so there's an opportunity cost. (Probably 0-0-0 too, while we're at it.)

Vader does exactly what you say you dislike about Palob, except the other end of the spectrum is a free damage. Yeah, it requires a force token, but that is also actionless with the potential of unblockable damage. You do know what happens when Vader is used against a ship with no tokens, right?

I’m pointing this out for consistency sake. If you think Palob should change, then I think you should be consistent and add Vader to your list.

You say you don’t think Vader is a problem. Now you understand how some feel when you complain about Palob.

4 minutes ago, SabineKey said:

Vader does exactly what you say you dislike about Palob, except the other end of the spectrum is a free damage. Yeah, it requires a force token, but that is also actionless with the potential of unblockable damage. You do know what happens when Vader is used against a ship with no tokens, right?

I’m pointing this out for consistency sake. If you think Palob should change, then I think you should be consistent and add Vader to your list.

You say you don’t think Vader is a problem. Now you understand how some feel when you complain about Palob.

I think I didn't consider Vader a problem because I've never actually flown against Vader. Also, while I'd prefer to remove such free non-actions, I do think Palob is worse in that he not only gets his free ability, but also has no in-game cost and gets a free token out of the deal.

Nonetheless, for the sake of consistency, you'll notice that I did include Vader in my proposed fix.