Thanks, they are quite helpful. The Seppun fixes that Mantis challenger into card no 41; the Miya library is that last 1-of card and also tells us that there's another neutral holding due (card 48); and the Void Province seems to confirm that the Provinces are in alphabetical Element order, rather than Title order.
Children of the Empire Spoilers
Spoil from Home of the Crane Clan . It's C 54, there are a big version at the site.
High res version
My take on the cards so far:
Storied Defeat is very good, and will synergize perfectly with the Crane dueling deck from MotC.
Temple of the Dragons has the same problem as every Void province: it has to compete against Shameful Display. And so far none matches Shameful. Seeker of Void is the only reason to play any other Void province. And even then, for Phoenix is basically Kuroi Mori and Shameful, and for the rest it’s Shameful and Pilgrimage. And this card won’t replace Pilgrimage, because is a)a one-off effect and b) it has the risk of fizzling, like your opponent attacking Void and not having bodies with Fate, or attacking Water and having no targets to bow/unbow.
Miya Library: First, you need enough Imperial cards for it to be slightly more reliable. Not that it’s too much now, being 1 per deck. Also, it probably means you lose the Fate for passing first (as this basically has to be played during Dynasty to have some utility), but it goes to the top of the deck, so next turn you see it again in your provinces. And repeat. Again, you need a good number of imperials in your deck. Maybe CotE will have enough to prove this card useful.
It also can be used during Fate phase, I guess? But you’re either seeing those cards anyway starting next turn, or not discarding the cards you already have because they’re good enough. There can be some corner cases for using it during conflict to fish for a Charge! target, but other than that, I’m not sure is good enough to risk losing the passing fate.
Seppun Hidden Guard: ok, so this could’ve been good as Conflict. As a dynasty card, it means that your opponent see it coming and can play around it. And then we have those requirements. Your unique character needs to be targeted by a character ability while this card is on the board , and then you need to sacrifice it , for a cancel and a random discard, yay!. They could’ve added “can only be used during an eclipse”, and it would’ve been equally useless.
Also, it’s just one assassination away of not doing anything. But hey, at least the stats are good... Oh, wait...
Edited by Tabris2k46 minutes ago, Tabris2k said:There can be some corner cases for using it during conflict to fish for a Charge! target or for a Storehouse, but other than that, I’m not sure is good enough to risk losing the passing fate.
Miya Library will only grab characters and not holdings.
Edited by Chupacabra527 minutes ago, Chupacabra52 said:Miya Library will only grab characters and not holdings.
Derp moment there. I’ll edit it out.
8 hours ago, Tabris2k said:Miya Library: First, you need enough Imperial cards for it to be slightly less reliable. Not that it’s too much now, being 1 per deck. Also, it probably means you lose the Fate for passing first (as this basically has to be played during Dynasty to have some utility), but it goes to the top of the deck, so next turn you see it again in your provinces. And repeat. Again, you need a good number of imperials in your deck. Maybe CotE will have enough to prove this card useful.
It does let you reorder the viewed cards anyway you want, so you can use it as a limited filter to make sure the next cards you put in provinces will be useful.
3 hours ago, Schmoozies said:It does let you reorder the viewed cards anyway you want, so you can use it as a limited filter to make sure the next cards you put in provinces will be useful.
I assume you mean using it during the Fate phase, but I’m still not seeing it. I mean, you’re probably gonna draw those cards anyway in the next turn, or at least half of them. And if you don’t have Miya Library, one of those cards would’ve come one turn earlier. A limited use, as you said.
Really like the design so far, there's no OP cards that are auto-includes in every deck. Most focus on specific strategies of a clan instead of behind broad. Can't wait to see the neutrals to have a better idea of the whole package and how some of them interact with the game.
Crane seems to get very strong out of this, but they'll have to leave behind certain answers if they want to bully through their duels. Scorpion DH and Shinobi are definetely splitting apart.
On 10/10/2018 at 4:39 PM, Tonbo Karasu said:Hello again everyone. In this thread and post I am going to be keeping as up to date as I can with the spoilers that have been seen for the big box, Children of the Empire. After I've had some time to do some analysis, I'll put that here as well. For the moment we just have the 10 cards.
The original of the spreadsheet I maintain is here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1GmAPhAh0Efi-bZ_bizsETTAGBnYrS7BkIj_ZqmOtn9M/edit?usp=sharing
My current guess is 9 cards per clan, 5 provinces and 14 neutral. The 6 one-ofs are the provinces: 1 for each element +
Toshi Ranbo, but that's wild speculationTR won't fit in the setup now, so it's probably the Emperor, possibly as a holding. I have noted speculation with italics.There are a number of cycles of cards in this set:
- Composure cards: we have Lion, Phoenix, Scorpion, Unicorn and most of Mantis, meaning we lack Crab, Crane and Dragon. (Might be no Crab?)
- Challenger cards: we have all the Challengers.
- Story events: we have Crab, Phoenix, Lion, Scorpion and Unicorn, meaning we lack Crane and Dragon.
- 4-Cost characters: we have all the 4-costers.
Overall, we lack 1 Provinces, 12 Dynasty and 13 Conflict cards. We have about 70% of the cards.
Pack Card Name ❀ Faction Deck Type Traits Rules Cost 6CotE 1 Kiku Matsuri Neutral Province Air Festival. 6CotE 2 Neutral Province Earth 6CotE 3 Illustrious Forge Neutral Province Fire 6CotE 4 Temple of the Dragons Neutral Province Void Temple. 6CotE 5 Midnight Revels Neutral Province Water 6CotE 6 Daring Challenger Crab Dynasty Character Bushi. Duellist. 2 6CotE 7 Yasuki Procurer Crab Dynasty Character Courtier. 2 6CotE 8 Crab Dynasty Character 3 6CotE 9 Hida Yakamo Y Crab Dynasty Character Bushi. Berserker. Duellist. 4 6CotE 10 Heavy Ballista Crab Dynasty Holding 6CotE 11 Crane Dynasty Character 2 6CotE 12 Courtly Challenger Crane Dynasty Character Courtier. Duellist. 2 6CotE 13 Crane Dynasty Character 3 6CotE 14 Kakita Toshimoko Y Crane Dynasty Character Bushi. Duellist. 6CotE 15 Kakita Dojo Crane Dynasty Holding Dojo. 6CotE 16 Dragon Dynasty Character 2 6CotE 17 Prudent Challenger Dragon Dynasty Character Bushi. Duellist. Courtesy 2 6CotE 18 Tranquil Philosopher Dragon Dynasty Character Monk. 3 6CotE 19 Mirumoto Hitomi Y Dragon Dynasty Character Bushi. Duellist 6CotE 20 Mirumoto Dojo Dragon Dynasty Holding Dojo. 6CotE 21 Honourable Challenger Lion Dynasty Character Bushi. Duellist. 2 6CotE 22 Ikoma Orator Lion Dynasty Character Courtier. 2 6CotE 23 Student of War Lion Dynasty Character Bushi. 3 6CotE 24 Matsu Tsuko Y Lion Dynasty Character Bushi. Berserker. Daimyo. 4 6CotE 25 Lion Dynasty Holding 6CotE 26 Fire Tensai Acolyte Phoenix Dynasty Character Shugenja. Fire. 2 6CotE 27 Sincere Challenger Phoenix Dynasty Character Courtier. Duellist. 2 6CotE 28 Sage of Gisei Toshi Phoenix Dynasty Character Courtier. Scholar. 3 6CotE 29 Isawa Ujina Y Phoenix Dynasty Character Shugenja. Void. Elemental Master. 4 6CotE 30 Phoenix Dynasty Holding 6CotE 31 Loyal Challenger Scorpion Dynasty Character Courtier. Duellist. 2 6CotE 32 Midnight Prowler Scorpion Dynasty Character 2 6CotE 33 Scorpion Dynasty Character 3 6CotE 34 Social Puppeteer Scorpion Dynasty Character Courtier. 3 6CotE 35 Shosuro Hametsu Y Scorpion Dynasty Character Shinobi. Daimyo. 4 6CotE 36 Unicorn Dynasty Character 2 6CotE 37 Honest Challenger Unicorn Dynasty Character Bushi. Cavalry, Duellist. 2 6CotE 38 Ide Negotiator Unicorn Dynasty Character Courtier. Cavalry. 3 6CotE 39 Shiotome Heroine Unicorn Dynasty Character Bushi. Cavalry. Battle Maiden. 3 6CotE 40 Utaku Kamoko Y Unicorn Dynasty Character Bushi. Cavalry. Battle Maiden. 4 6CotE 41 Aspiring Challenger Neutral Dynasty Character Bushi. Duellist. Mantis Clan. 2 6CotE 42 Seppun Hidden Guard Neutral Dynasty Character Bushi. Imperial. Yojimbo. 2 6CotE 43 Neutral Dynasty Character 3 6CotE 44 Neutral Dynasty Character 4 6CotE 45 Akodo Toturi Y Neutral Dynasty Character Bushi. Champion. Imperial 5 6CotE 46 Hantei XXXVIII Y Neutral Dynasty Character 5 6CotE 47 Miya Library Y Neutral Dynasty Holding Imperial. Library. 1/Deck 6CotE 48 Neutral Dynasty Holding 6CotE 49 Crab Conflict 6CotE 50 Honoured Nodachi Crab Conflict Attachment Weapon. Restricted. 2 6CotE 51 Smuggling Deal Crab Conflict Event 0 6CotE 52 In Defence of Rokugan Crab Conflict Event 1 6CotE 53 Iaijutsu Master Crane Conflict Attachment Skill. 1 6CotE 54 Storied Defeat Crane Conflict Event 1 6CotE 55 Try Again Tomorrow Crane Conflict Event 0 6CotE 56 Crane Conflict 6CotE 57 Dragon Conflict 6CotE 58 Mirumoto Daisho Dragon Conflict Attachment Weapon. Restricted. 2 6CotE 59 Dragon Conflict 6CotE 60 Karmic Balance Dragon Conflict Event Philosophy 2 6CotE 61 True Strike Kenjutsu Lion Conflict Attachment Technique 2 6CotE 62 Hand to Hand Lion Conflict Event 0 6CotE 63 The Fires of Justice Lion Conflict Event Void Only. 2 6CotE 64 Glorious Victory Lion Conflict Event 3 6CotE 65 Unmatched Expertise Phoenix Conflict Attachment Technique. Fire Only. 0 6CotE 66 Gift of Amaterasu Phoenix Conflict Event Spell. Fire. 1 6CotE 67 Phoenix Conflict Event 6CotE 68 Subdue the Spirits Phoenix Conflict Event 2 6CotE 69 Infiltrator's Tools Scorpion Conflict Attachment 0 6CotE 70 Kirei-ko Scorpion Conflict Event Poison. 1 6CotE 71 Scorpion Conflict Event 6CotE 72 Miyako's Undertaking Scorpion Conflict Event 2 6CotE 73 Unicorn Conflict 6CotE 74 Jewel of the Khamasin Y Unicorn Conflict Attachment Item. Meishodo. 2 6CotE 75 Challenge on the Fields Unicorn Conflict Event 0 6CotE 76 Unicorn Conflict Event 6CotE 77 Neutral Conflict 6CotE 78 Neutral Conflict 6CotE 79 Neutral Conflict 6CotE 80 Stay Your Hand Neutral Conflict Event 0 6CotE 81 Warm Welcome Neutral Conflict Event 1 6CotE 82 Neutral Conflict Event
Magnificent Triumph should be here under Dragon events
On 1/20/2019 at 12:20 AM, Tonbo Karasu said:Thanks, they are quite helpful. The Seppun fixes that Mantis challenger into card no 41; the Miya library is that last 1-of card and also tells us that there's another neutral holding due (card 48); and the Void Province seems to confirm that the Provinces are in alphabetical Element order, rather than Title order.
I’m still saying that Illustrious Forge is 2, not 3.
10 hours ago, Soshi Saibankan said:Really like the design so far, there's no OP cards that are auto-includes in every deck. Most focus on specific strategies of a clan instead of behind broad. Can't wait to see the neutrals to have a better idea of the whole package and how some of them interact with the game.
Crane seems to get very strong out of this, but they'll have to leave behind certain answers if they want to bully through their duels. Scorpion DH and Shinobi are definetely splitting apart.
Kirei-Ko, Toshimoko and Kamoko seem like auto-includes that work extremly well in a good-stuff deck.
8 hours ago, Ignithas said:Kirei-Ko, Toshimoko and Kamoko seem like auto-includes that work extremly well in a good-stuff deck.
Among Scorpions Kirei-ko is still being weighted. It's a good control piece but it's not worth on many characters. Certain characters can easily keep their action for after they're bowed and it might not be too harsh to play around. In the Dishonor deck I'd say its a shoe-in. But for aggro-shinobi its not as clear. Its the opportunity cost that might be too expensive for certain players.
I'll probably try out a 2x.
I don't see Toshimoko making it into Crane other than for control archetypes. If you are going aggro, spending a turn's weight of Fate on him could have been better invested.
Kamoko is just a beast though, there's no downside or 4-coster in Unicorn that can rival her. She's better in HMT, but Shiro Shinjo's potential might see different archetypes that wouldn't include her. But as is yeah, she's too good to pass up. I mean I would take a character that dishonors to unbow...
Edited by Soshi SaibankanOn 1/19/2019 at 4:27 PM, TheHobgoblyn said:1 more character and 1 more holding.
So, we'll be able to make my full Imperial Families dynasty deck. Will still have to play out of some clan stronghold and use that clan's conflict cards, for the most part, but the dynasty side is now fully covered.
Now, it seems like the cards on that dynasty side weren't designed with much synergy and they all seem to have a flat -1 across the stats compared to any faction-specific card, so it won't be able to be successful, but it will exist in the very least.
You and I are on the same page on this one. Right now, I'm looking at Crane since they have a Fire role, and we can actually hit the full 40 card Dynasty deck with all Imperial cards (Kakita Yoshi, Silver-tongued Magistrate, Chisei District). If the rumors are true, and we are getting both the Heirs, as well as big daddy Hantei 38th, that will bring us to being able to run a fully Neutral Dynasty deck as long as we get a Fire Role.
Conflict... Let's just say that this is going to be my Enlightenment go to deck.
13 hours ago, BayushiFugu said:Magnificent Triumph should be here under Dragon events
Did I not put that in already? I suck at this.
9 hours ago, Tabris2k said:I’m still saying that Illustrious Forge is 2, not 3.
Yep, you are. If it is, I can see no logical ordering that puts the other ones where we know they are. Unless the Forge is somehow an Earth province.
1 hour ago, Tonbo Karasu said:Yep, you are. If it is, I can see no logical ordering that puts the other ones where we know they are. Unless the Forge is somehow an Earth province.
Yeah, there’s the possibility of weird order, or that there’s not an Earth Province, wich would be even weirder.
Maybe they changed the Element of the Forge after testing?
My thoughts on the previews:
Overall - YES! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! AT LONG LAST, THE IMPERIAL DECK IS MINE! MINE! HAHAHAHAHA!
Oh, wait, you wanted more? Oh, okay.
Hantei XXXVIII - Big Daddy Hantei himself. And you can run more than 1x of him in your deck (as "Mythic" is just flavor text). So, let's look at that stat block. Huh. Okay. But I DO like that first line. No Attachments. So. Tasty. And so what if your opponent can make you discard him if they get the Imperial Favor. Other than that one Scorpion, this should NEVER HAPPEN if you have him on the board. Seriously. Four Fate this guy, and watch as your opponent just rolls over you for paying 10 Fate for a very glorious speed bump. On the bright side, he has an awesome Action, and an Interrupt that just... works. I do not know if this will be a card that sees play outside of a wacky theme deck and maybe Shiro Shinjo, but hey. I like it.
Humble Magistrate - Okay, I like your text. But a 2M/2P/2G for 3 Fate for a blanket, limited shut down is not anything to write home about.
Righteous Magistrate - I am so very happy to see the Scorpion Clan have enlisted the aid of the Imperial Families to effectively turn off the Air Ring on the defense. And Banzai. And Assassinate. And Unleash the Djinn. Other than that, I like this guy a lot more than Humble.
Unveiled Destiny - NB4 "2 Fate Attachments are useless!" But seriously. This is probably unplayable because of its Fate cost. A 0 Fate +0M / +0P Attachment that did the same MIGHT have seen play. This is just bad.
Defend Your Honor - Oh. Oh my. Is this a counter-Event that the Unicorn, Crab, and Lion could theoretically run? And the Dragon are just going to run because they can? And is essentially ANOTHER Way of the Crane for the Kyuden Kakita deck, which has the potential to shut down an Event? This is solidly good... and one that adds incentive to running - Mil characters, since they cannot participate in a Mil duel, and thus this card cannot be played because there are insufficient targets.
Overall winner? DEFINITELY the Keepers. Both of the Seeker cards in this are substandard. The real losers? The Support Of Roles.
Wait, wait, there's a Mantis in this preview? Where? Oh, yeah...
Aspiring Challenger - Well. Uh. Good for you, Mantis Clan. This certainly is a card. And is practically worthless, as it is a duel you never want to lose, but to get use out of the Composure, you have to already be winning?
I can't wait to have Defend Your Honor counter a Defend Your Honor.
Also I think Unveiled Destiny is better than it looks at first glance.
Edited by Ishi TonuThe fact that the Magistrate can be used by dishonor decks to stop the opponent from fighting back by attacking air is pretty bs. Has dishonor just become the new non-interactive deck instead of honor?
1 hour ago, Ishi Tonu said:I can't wait to have Defend Your Honor counter a Defend Your Honor.
Why? The second Defend Your Honor would likely involve the exact same characters as the first since both players can chose which ever character they want to participate in the duel.
13 minutes ago, Ultimatecalibur said:Why? The second Defend Your Honor would likely involve the exact same characters as the first since both players can chose which ever character they want to participate in the duel.
Depends if your opponent has to invest to protect theirs going off. If you can say bid 1 while they had to bid 4 or 5 to guarantee the cancel, than swing back and cancel their with a 3 or 4 bid might be worth it for the honor swing, heck even bid 1 again knowing it will be cancelled and score 6 honor from the exchange might be worth it.
25 minutes ago, Schmoozies said:Depends if your opponent has to invest to protect theirs going off. If you can say bid 1 while they had to bid 4 or 5 to guarantee the cancel, than swing back and cancel their with a 3 or 4 bid might be worth it for the honor swing, heck even bid 1 again knowing it will be cancelled and score 6 honor from the exchange might be worth it.
Resolving the duel comes after the dash, so is part of the effect not the cost. So don't you just miss the timing to use yours to counter theirs if you wait for the duel to resolve?
Edited by Uramov1 hour ago, Ultimatecalibur said:Why? The second Defend Your Honor would likely involve the exact same characters as the first since both players can chose which ever character they want to participate in the duel.
Mostly just for shenanigans......
However you could induce additional honor loss from your opponent if they really want that cancel to go through.
Am I going to actually try to cancel their cancel and bid high?
Am I bluffing and trying to steal honor?
If I lose my duel and fail to cancel, then they still have to do their duel, which, depending on the results of the first fuel, may now change how they can bid in the second duel.
I don't expect it a ton, but, there is a valid reason to do it and I wouldn't be too shocked if it became fairly normal pattern of play.
Edited by Ishi Tonu1 hour ago, Uramov said:Resolving the duel comes after the dash, so is part of the effect not the cost. So don't you just miss the timing to use yours to counter theirs if you wait for the duel to resolve?
You are forcing them to over commit to stopping your cancel first, so that their cancel will then have a chance to resolve and negate the effect they planned to cancel in the first place. Since it is an Interrupt it becomes playable once all costs (selecting the participants for the first duel are finalized) and than should create a repeat of the previous steps, resolve that duel and than if the player who played the first cancel wins, they can continue to resolve their cancel to try and stop the first action.