5 minutes ago, Tvboy said:

Han gunner in the most recently designed expansion. 4 points for a free action that ignores blocking. How did that one even make it out the door?

Stresses the ship...

30 minutes ago, Vontoothskie said:

Why are you insistent on making ad hominem attacks instead of discussion? If for some reason you believe people have to explain themselves to you and you simply MUST know about my personal decisions, Ive been playing 2.0 with the saws renegades components while waiting to see if 2.0 gets completed for epic before I blow $450+ dollars on conversion

as to the subject at hand, the article may be wrong, but its showing 4 Tie FOs with the Upsilon. assuming Tie FOs start around 30 points, that puts a named Upsilon pilot with upgrades at 80 points or less. Again the article could be wrong as they often are, or maybe Tie Fos are way cheaper than Scyks, but 80 points for a 4 attack hwk290 with 12 hp and amazing support/control ability doesnt seem weak in a faction we already know favors cheap ace arc dodgers and specialists who excel with support.

I have never made an ad hominem attack against you. I suggest you look up what that means before throwing that around again in the future, lest you look foolish. I am, however, tired of your incessant whining about second edition. First edition was on its death bed and would have killed the game within a year or two if second edition didn't happen. You don't have to love all of FFG's decisions, but first edition was cancer, and most everyone here is happy for the revamp.

22 minutes ago, Hiemfire said:

Stresses the ship...

So you think Han is correctly costed at 4 points? Because a free action in 1.0 that ignored bumping and triggered in the combat phase would be extremely good for 2 points in 1.0. PTL gave you a stress and it cost more than Han gunner does in relative points.

3 hours ago, Tvboy said:

So you think Han is correctly costed at 4 points? Because a free action in 1.0 that ignored bumping and triggered in the combat phase would be extremely good for 2 points in 1.0. PTL gave you a stress and it cost more than Han gunner does in relative points.

PTL gave you any extra action left on ur action bar which for soontir meant evade or boost r occasionally TL. thats significantly better than an extra focus. Han gunner is also limited to small pool of ships. its still crazy good but not even close to the power of PTL.

To play Han Gunner on firespray u need marauder title so thats an extra 3pts. han gunner seems slightly undercosted but not by much. that stress is significant on a firespray whos dial is nowhere close to an intercepter.

I want to second the original post.

Well played!

3 hours ago, Tvboy said:

So you think Han is correctly costed at 4 points? Because a free action in 1.0 that ignored bumping and triggered in the combat phase would be extremely good for 2 points in 1.0. PTL gave you a stress and it cost more than Han gunner does in relative points.

Regardless of Hans power in second edition its vastly less powerful than push the limit was in first edition. Not even in the same ballpark for power level.

I don't really know how I feel about Han Gunner, I have used him and felt kind of meh about it (on a boba, it was good but the stress hurt really bad and I already had good mods most of the time.). The few times i have played against it the stress really hurt my opponent mostly by giving me the intel of what he was going to do next turn. (really hard to do those talon rolls if you are stressed). So far it has felt about right, now that may be because the games I have seen it in just went that way I do admit I have limited experience with or against it.

As to @Pewpewpew BOOM 's original post, I agree wholeheartedly the game feels really good right now and I am enjoying everything I try and put on the table and seeing success with everything. My only real problem is I am obsessed with the tie advanced V1 and it may actually be overpowered (the inquisitor generic at least)

Boring won't affect the meta state, with so many ships already in extended, eventually they will be going into 2.0. Still with the updates and adding new maneuvers to existing ships the design space is left wide open they won't need to make too many new mechanics.

The one thing I am worried is how proactive FFG is with their point values and during playtesting. We might end up with a common situation of something being released in the each wave that happens to be a little too good for what it is costed at, only to get a point increase after the next wave which will have the same problem. This cycle of events may create the illusion that FFG intentionally releases the new wave with OP stuff, then nerfing them once the next wave comes out to get players to buy the next OP ship/pilot/upgrade.

36 minutes ago, Marinealver said:

Boring won't affect the meta state, with so many ships already in extended they eventually will be going into 2.0. Still with the updates and adding new maneuvers to existing ships the design space is left wide open they won't need to make too many new mechanics.

The one thing I am worried is how proactive FFG is with their point values and during playtesting. We might end up with a common situation of something being released in the next wave that happens to be a little too good for what it is costed at, only to get a point increase after the next wave which will have the same problem. This cycle of events will create the illusion that FFG intentionally releases the new wave with OP stuff then nerfing them once the next wave comes out to get players to buy the next OP ship/pilot/upgrade.

good point. its really what they did in 1.0 from about wave 8 onwards, maybe sooner. they let some stuff thru that was just meta warping. they have rest things power wise so slow rolling out new stuff is imp if they want to learn from their mistakes with 1.0. TLT, jumpmaster undercostedness, sabine augmented bombs, mindlink/manaroo are some examples.

11 hours ago, Vontoothskie said:

First order preview already shows them getting a little crazy. even just counting whats in the preview, 1 shuttle can auto stress groups of enemy ships, give 3 friendlies double actions, roll 4 attack dice, and bassed on the list they showed costs about what boba fett does.

Granted Tie FOs arent too scary, but an entire formation of ties getting co-ordinate actions while your whole squad is stressed is stupid design. Plus Im guessing First order will get a medium fighter and a bomber eventually. Getting nuked by bomber swarms with extra actions sounds lame too

It’s like we read a different article.

16 hours ago, HolySorcerer said:

That's a funny comparison to make as Karsabi has a useless pilot ability.

They probably should have updated his ability for the migration to 2.0. Because of the way cannons work, you are not really leaning on his ability as much. I think it would have been cool to ditch the disarm to gain an ion token.

As it stands now, you could try and get him a focus via coordinate and then be able to fire barrage rockets after doing a SLAM and removing the disarm token...I'm spitballing here.

40 minutes ago, BDrafty said:

They probably should have updated his ability for the migration to 2.0. Because of the way cannons work, you are not really leaning on his ability as much. I think it would have been cool to ditch the disarm to gain an ion token.

As it stands now, you could try and get him a focus via coordinate and then be able to fire barrage rockets after doing a SLAM and removing the disarm token...I'm spitballing here.

Sure, but at that point just bring bombers. They’re cheaper and fire brockets just as well.

The issue is that I can’t think of a single list where I would ever take Karsabi over a Rho for even one point more, let alone whatever the **** he costs now.

18 minutes ago, HolySorcerer said:

Sure, but at that point just bring bombers. They’re cheaper and fire brockets just as well.

The issue is that I can’t think of a single list where I would ever take Karsabi over a Rho for even one point more, let alone whatever the **** he costs now.

He's a whole 2 points more than a Rho ?

8 hours ago, Marinealver said:

We might end up with a common situation of something being released in the next wave that happens to be a little too good for what it is costed at, only to get a point increase after the next wave which will have the same problem. This cycle of events will create the illusion that FFG intentionally releases the new wave with OP stuff then nerfing them once the next wave comes out to get players to buy the next OP ship/pilot/upgrade.

You'd think that when people saw something that seemed a little too good, that they'd buy it with the expectation that it would be nerfed at some point, rather than spending their life savings buying as many as possible and expecting that they'll remain unbeatable forever.

You'd be wrong.

1 hour ago, BDrafty said:

He's a whole 2 points more than a Rho ?

Drop him by three points and we will talk.

I'd hate wave after wave of power creep to sell new stuff from here on.

2.0 is great, in no small part because of the rebalancing and the almost exclusive removal of action economy/token stacking abilities.

On 10/9/2018 at 8:54 PM, HolySorcerer said:

I have never made an ad hominem attack against you. I suggest you look up what that means before throwing that around again in the future, lest you look foolish. I am, however, tired of your incessant whining about second edition. First edition was on its death bed and would have killed the game within a year or two if second edition didn't happen. You don't have to love all of FFG's decisions, but first edition was cancer, and most everyone here is happy for the revamp.

You've made multiple ad hominem attacks towards me and others on this board and its never been appropriate. If we disagree about a game mechanic and you insult my character, that is the definition of an ad hominem attack... as in you're trying to steer the conversation away from the topic and on to the person discussing it. You are not the arbitrator of opinion and you do not get to insult and harass people who disagree with you without reproach

I do agree first edition needed fixing, and I was one of the many people saying so in 2016 onward. I was horrified by 1.0s power creep and nonsense mechanics. The execution of 2.0 has however been extremely poor and split the community. Right now second edition is half of 1.0 at a very steep price point with some really unfortunate design choices (like the App). If you disagree, cool. say so. but i'm pretty sick of the insults and you implying people have said things they havent.

1 hour ago, Vontoothskie said:

You've made multiple ad hominem attacks towards me and others on this board and its never been appropriate. If we disagree about a game mechanic and you insult my character, that is the definition of an ad hominem attack... as in you're trying to steer the conversation away from the topic and on to the person discussing it. You are not the arbitrator of opinion and you do not get to insult and harass people who disagree with you without reproach

*citation needed*

I have never attempted to discredit your argument by personally attacking you or others. I have however called you out for your inane ramblings and constant ******* about second edition.

If you could please refrain from making any more libelous statements about me I'd appreciate it.

Thanks.

6 hours ago, Vontoothskie said:

You've made multiple ad hominem attacks towards me and others on this board and its never been appropriate. If we disagree about a game mechanic and you insult my character, that is the definition of an ad hominem attack... as in you're trying to steer the conversation away from the topic and on to the person discussing it. You are not the arbitrator of opinion and you do not get to insult and harass people who disagree with you without reproach

I do agree first edition needed fixing, and I was one of the many people saying so in 2016 onward. I was horrified by 1.0s power creep and nonsense mechanics. The execution of 2.0 has however been extremely poor and split the community. Right now second edition is half of 1.0 at a very steep price point with some really unfortunate design choices (like the App). If you disagree, cool. say so. but i'm pretty sick of the insults and you implying people have said things they havent.

5 hours ago, HolySorcerer said:

*citation needed*

I have never attempted to discredit your argument by personally attacking you or others. I have however called you out for your inane ramblings and constant ******* about second edition.

If you could please refrain from making any more libelous statements about me I'd appreciate it.

Thanks.

Guys, I think you're both overreacting. I love the X-Wing community, but stuff like this really isn't good for us.

Sometimes I wonder why I spend more time on Reddit when there's so much great discussion here, but then I come back and see this...

?

On 10/9/2018 at 8:48 PM, Hiemfire said:

Stresses the ship...

Han (Gunner) does stress the ship unless your near an obstacle and have Debri Gambit then it's white; that makes Han (Gunner) on Boba as an example very strong especially with Perspective Copilot/ Situational but 14 points for (If within R1 of an obstacle) 2 focus and a free evade.

So there are ways to make it a white evade for a minimal point fee.

16 minutes ago, Cgriffith said:

Han (Gunner) does stress the ship unless your near an obstacle and have Debri Gambit then it's white; that makes Han (Gunner) on Boba as an example very strong especially with Perspective Copilot/ Situational but 14 points for (If within R1 of an obstacle) 2 focus and a free evade.

So there are ways to make it a white evade for a minimal point fee.

Han gunner is a red focus, Debris Gambit applies to red Evades...

1 hour ago, ClassicalMoser said:

Guys, I think you're both overreacting. I love the X-Wing community, but stuff like this really isn't good for us.

Sometimes I wonder why I spend more time on Reddit when there's so much great discussion here, but then I come back and see this...

?

Good message, but try it more like this:

1 hour ago, Hiemfire said:

Han gunner is a red focus, Debris Gambit applies to red Evades...

Yes, I got the two confused.