FWIW here are some positions Rexler could go.

Curiously, "Boost Right (via Advanced Sensors or Coordinate) + 4K" looks quite blockable. Then again, worst case scenario, only one other TIE max. will be able to shoot him if others tried to block his more predictable moves, and then he does a 4K next turn to be in an amazing position. It's probably worth it even if the TIE player fully expects and plans for it, and definitely worthwhile if those TIEs aim for any other possible position.

7 hours ago, MasterShake2 said:

The actual right answer is that the TIE Defender doesn't leave itself with no good speed 3 maneuvers to engage with and no good K-Turn options. It definitely should've barrel rolled previous turn or plotted a previous position that leaves it more open.

Well, the TIEs should have broken formation against an arc-dodger before reaching Range 4, too.

I'd go for the hard 3, and then boost inward if they didn't block me. Even if they do block it, Rex is still durable enough to weather the incoming fire, especially since it'll probably only be one or two TIEs with a shot. Next turn, you should be able to swing the 4K with a focus and/or TL, plus a free evade from Juke.

11 hours ago, Quarrel said:

FWIW here are some positions Rexler could go.

Curiously, "Boost Right (via Advanced Sensors or Coordinate) + 4K" looks quite blockable. Then again, worst case scenario, only one other TIE max. will be able to shoot him if others tried to block his more predictable moves, and then he does a 4K next turn to be in an amazing position. It's probably worth it even if the TIE player fully expects and plans for it, and definitely worthwhile if those TIEs aim for any other possible position.

Fantastic @Quarrel , really nice you follow-up the discussion with a second picture where some of the discussed moves have been plottet in, helps with the "aim"/learning to measure manouvers by "eye-sight"- this helps and we learn a lot.

From this picture it is becomes even more clear that the left 3T turn (disengage up) is the only option. The right 3B and 3T should be both blockable by the TIEs: TIE A moves 3 turns left and barrel rolls up TIE C 5 forward barrel roll left. TIEs B and C banks 2B to the left and focuses, ready to attack if the block works.

I actually quite like the 5s, right boost from that pic. You probably won't have a shot but you likely won't be receiving much fire either. The options next turn, if the TIEs break, look quite palatable.

The disengage would be better for this turn but I'm not convinced it helps the following turn as much.

I'd have gone 5-straight into a boost right, which should keep you safe this turn and next after a 3-turn. Then maybe you can engage on more favourable terms. The key thing is to avoid being either blocked or shot at by all 4, so I'm not sure the 3-turns would work, though it appears a 3-turn right into a boost would probably have avoided most shots and allowed an easy k-turn next turn.

So the TIEs then... B goes 4/5 straight to block the right boost and stick a R1 in Rex's side. A 3 banks and rolls to block the 3 turns. C and D 2 bank to catch Rex in arc wherever he goes. ??

Tbh, as Rex, I'm suddenly feeling like I can tank and pick them all off, even without AS. But blocking the boost off the 5s complicates matters. Depends where the board edge is.

15 hours ago, Quarrel said:

FWIW here are some positions Rexler could go.

Curiously, "Boost Right (via Advanced Sensors or Coordinate) + 4K" looks quite blockable. Then again, worst case scenario, only one other TIE max. will be able to shoot him if others tried to block his more predictable moves, and then he does a 4K next turn to be in an amazing position. It's probably worth it even if the TIE player fully expects and plans for it, and definitely worthwhile if those TIEs aim for any other possible position.

That's great - thanks so much for posting that! I can judge distance pretty well on an actual table, but the overhead view like this throws me a bit. My distances were WAY off at first glance.

Personally, seeing this, I'd probably pull the 3 right turn and then boost left. Yes, there's a chance of being blocked, but I'd bet my opponent wouldn't assume I'd roll in that close. Really, it depends on the opponent as well, though in a tourney setting you don't get much of a chance to gauge a player's character and tactics before duking it out.

16 hours ago, Quarrel said:

FWIW here are some positions Rexler could go.

Curiously, "Boost Right (via Advanced Sensors or Coordinate) + 4K" looks quite blockable. Then again, worst case scenario, only one other TIE max. will be able to shoot him if others tried to block his more predictable moves, and then he does a 4K next turn to be in an amazing position. It's probably worth it even if the TIE player fully expects and plans for it, and definitely worthwhile if those TIEs aim for any other possible position.

Seeing this I stand by my 1 bank. Lock in that evade to trigger Juke/Rex ability. Guarantee a shot and limit the range of shots you will be receiving to Range 2+. Not really sure what the follow up move would be. Depends on what the ties do. I assume they'd be doing a 3 bank with "A", 3 forward with the remaining ones. Gives them a good chance of getting blocks/arcs from any move the defender does.

Then they have great options the next turn on where to go. The defender is probably looking a 3 bank and a BR to get out of arc the following turn. Reset and repeat.

EDIT: People don't expect the 1 bank from a defender. That helps too

7 minutes ago, viedit said:

Seeing this I stand by my 1 bank. Lock in that evade to trigger Juke/Rex ability. Guarantee a shot and limit the range of shots you will be receiving to Range 2+. Not really sure what the follow up move would be. Depends on what the ties do. I assume they'd be doing a 3 bank with "A", 3 forward with the remaining ones. Gives them a good chance of getting blocks/arcs from any move the defender does.

Then they have great options the next turn on where to go. The defender is probably looking a 3 bank and a BR to get out of arc the following turn. Reset and repeat.

EDIT: People don't expect the 1 bank from a defender. That helps too

Why would the others just go straight? I got to assume that the Defender pilot is going to try and maximize his ability. So A does the 3 or 4 straight with B/R to block the 3 bank and I'd 3 bank the rest of them in to get shots. I do like the 1 bank though. Sets up the K-turn in behind them. The 1 forward boost and K-turn isn't awful either. You might take a shot from 1 or 2, but you position on their flank and they are kind of forced to K-turn next turn. Should easily be able to pick off one.

They go straight to call the bluff on the 5 forward and set themselves up better for the next turn.

bank 1 right, then barrel roll to end in front tof asteroid. Because i dont give a **** about asteroids. after that , koi4 through the asteroid.

48 minutes ago, vtarin said:

bank 1 right, then barrel roll to end in front tof asteroid. Because i dont give a **** about asteroids. after that , koi4 through the asteroid.

Played someone the other day that didn't give a **** about asteroids. Was surprising enough to be quietly effective. At least with Col Det, you know they're not gonna give a **** about asteroids.

1 hour ago, viedit said:

Seeing this I stand by my 1 bank. Lock in that evade to trigger Juke/Rex ability.

See, I actually wanted to retract my 1 bank, evade and hope on seeing the follow up pic. I've lost enough shield off a single 2 dice attack at R3 through a rock, (CURSE you green dice!), I certainly wouldn't want 4 of them at R2.

Funnily enough, 1 was APT Rhymer on Rex. Never gave him a chance to APT so he actually did all his damage at R3 through a rock with his piddly primary.

I'm not a Vassal player, so my perspective isn't very good, but I play both defenders and swarms a lot.

For the TIEs I'd two bank with A and C, and three bank with B and D.

For Brath, I'd probably five straight.

I don't think TIE A gets the 3 bank block with a barrel roll. If thats the case, 3 bank in is probably correct.

My initial (before seeing the followup) was 3 hard right.

With this new information I‘m reall into the 1bank of Rexler. Gives him a r1 at A (because that one has to block the 3bank) and the other three are atr2 if they 3banked, or even further away.

And no maneuver will block the 4k for the next turn.

@Quarrel what about the TIEs? I‘m especially interested in A, and 4straight+roll left to block, or 1hard left.

I don‘t see good moves that are not bases on now extensive Defender discussion

14 minutes ago, GreenDragoon said:

With this new information I‘m reall into the 1bank of Rexler. Gives him a r1 at A (because that one has to block the 3bank) and the other three are atr2 if they 3banked, or even further away.

And no maneuver will block the 4k for the next turn. 

@Quarrel what about the TIEs? I‘m especially interested in A, and 4straight+roll left to block, or 1hard left.

I don‘t see good moves that are not bases on now extensive Defender discussion

Yeah my spacial awareness on these vassal maps makes it hard for me to project what the 4k looks like the next turn. The 1 bank just seems like it's the ties the hardest thing to plan for this turn and subsequently react to next round. You've got a lot of space to run to and still able to get shots in.

Ok, I'm maybe going too far now, but now Rex's wingmates are entering my thinking

I'm super not down with the 1 bank. I'm running Rex and Ryad. Throwing Rex in like that and risking a total shield loss, with say Vader across the way duking it with Ryad, gives me shudders. I want him popping them all with absolutely minimal damage, as Vader could roast Ryad if she's unlucky. Then he just needs a decent roll to PS kill Rex, no matter what health she's left him on.

However, if I've got, for eg, a few Scimitars or Redline or some Soontir going on, I'm looking at Rex's job in a very different light in each case.

So I guess, is Rex your end game piece.... I think he can deal with the TIEs for as long as he likes if he plays it a certain way. Or, he just smashes as many as he can and Soontir finishes the m off....

Either way, I'm not actually sure it changes that much on this move. Avoiding the block would be primary in any case, which is obviously achievable in a few ways.

21 minutes ago, Cuz05 said:

O  k  , I'm may  be going too far now, but now Rex's wingmates are entering my  thinkin  g 

I just assumed that - by some weird coincidence - all ships are what‘s left, and worth exactly the same. There are no wingmen anymore because it would change too much.

3 minutes ago, GreenDragoon said:

I just assumed that - by some weird coincidence - all ships are what‘s left, and worth exactly the same. There are no wingmen anymore because it would change too much.

Fair point. I've been trying to fly the D's more aggressively, since they tank so well. In which case, risking shields on the 1st engagement in order to set up a favourable clean up operation makes decent sense.

As the defender without AS, I'm taking 3T and then likely boosting.

They can't really block 3T AND 3B effectively at the same time.

On 10/10/2018 at 6:26 AM, viedit said:

Depends on what the ties do. I assume they'd be doing a 3 bank with "A", 3 forward with the remaining ones. Gives them a good chance of getting blocks/arcs from any move the defender does.

I don't see any wisdom to doing a 3 straight with any TIE. Rushing to get closer range on arc-dodgers only makes it easier for them to slip past you.

(Strike that. It might make sense for B to.)

Here it is with some basic TIE/ln moves as well.

I think the clutch move is 3TL+BRR from A. It blocks Rexler's 3 turn and 3 bank, clears the rock for next round, and even forces Rexler to choose between barrel rolling to get out of A's arc or focusing and suffering an extra shot if he dials a 1 bank.

Strongest move for the rest, if you are sure Rexler will turn in at all, is 3 bank left IMO. (I show 2, but 3 capitalizes on the block better with shorter range shots).

Safer is to do a 2 straight with the rest (with B, and only B, possibly going speed 3 instead). This sacrifices firepower on the blocked positions but gains coverage of Rexler's 5-straight exits (not to mention being in what I think is a better setup for next round if that's where he goes).

On 10/10/2018 at 9:20 AM, underling said:

For the TIEs I'd two bank with A and C, and three bank with B and D.

I'm honestly surprised you were the first person to suggest this. Because of their formation, having them all bank the same distance is risky (but it turns out that they just barely fit). This keeps them in formation to be able to K-turn through the gap in the asteroids if necessary. And bonus: it looks like even the 3 turn south + boost won't get Rexler out of all of their arcs.

Now about blocking. You have to be REALLY careful about blocking with a TIE swarm. Lots of suggestions about "go straight to block this" and "turn and barel roll to block that," but if you're not all on target, you are not getting through that defender's defense. And then you are all out of formation (which isn't terrible, honestly), allowing Rexler to possibly pick you off easier. I strongly believe that you should only block if it's going to give you good shots. Sometimes we get excited about blocking for the sake of blocking. Remember, Rexler is fine if he's blocked if that means 1 of your other ships has no shot because it's also in a potential blocking position - that means he's only taking two shots instead of your maximum 4 shots.