1 hour ago, Bodacious2182 said:

I don't think we should count this out yet.

Kylo is a pilot on this thing with two force, right? That means when able this thing can look at 3 dials.

Secondly, with supernatural reflexes on the kylo pilot and the sizeable health to risk it, this thing can get around pretty fast.

Lastly, if the force isn't used up, here is another ship that has 3 force available.

I bet this combo is very expensive, but we will have to wait and see how powerful.

Supernatural is small ship only isn't it?

Unless the upsilon is priced very aggressively or has some additional ability to repeatedly stop or turn round or shoot outside primary arc (A new cannon maybe) it's not going to change from 1e. Because it's fundamentally not changed from 1e. And in 1e it was a big hammer that you were lucky to swing more than once a game because it was so easily avoided.

1 hour ago, thespaceinvader said:

Supernatural is small ship only isn't it?

Unless the upsilon is priced very aggressively or has some additional ability to repeatedly stop or turn round or shoot outside primary arc (A new cannon maybe) it's not going to change from 1e. Because it's fundamentally not changed from 1e. And in 1e it was a big hammer that you were lucky to swing more than once a game because it was so easily avoided.

small ship only

Before you activate, you may spend 1 (force token) to perform a (boost) or (barrel roll) action. Then, if you performed an action you do not have on your action bar, suffer 1 damage.

8 hours ago, Cloaker said:

Does anyone really believe they will allow 3 of these to hit the table with a focus on reducing red dice creep in 2.0?

Given that the First Order conversion kit contains components for running three Upsilons, I think it's a safe be you'll be able to get three of them in 200 points.

http://xwing-miniatures-second-edition.wikia.com/wiki/First_Order_Conversion_Kit

Specifically, you get dials for the following:

• 7 – TIE/fo Fighters
• 5 – TIE/sf Fighters
• 3 – TIE/vn Silencers
• 3 – Upsilon-class Shuttles

Which should give a good baseline for the most the lowest Inititative generic pilot of each should cost.

• TIE/fo - 28 points (to get 7 in a list)
• TIE/sf - 40 points (to get 5 in a list)
• Silencer and Upsilon - 66 points (to get 3 in a list)

And there's a decent chance that any of those generics will be at least a few points cheaper to allow for some upgrades.

The upsilon was actually quite good in tier2. Only the fact that tier1 was stupidly broken made it not good.

3 minutes ago, Jarval said:

Given  that the First Order conversion kit contains components for running three Upsilons, I think  it's a safe be you'll be able to get three of them in 200  points. 

To further support that idea: there is not a single ship type in 2.0 conversion kits with too many componets to run all together at the same time. However, most medium/large ships only got 2 dials anyway. But eg Yt2400, falcon, vcx, or decimator all had 2 and all can run 2 in a list. None got 3. (Also shadowcaster didn‘t, and that‘s 64.)

Second point: the more recent releases often stayed very similar with tendency to point decrease. I went back to wave 9, but feel free to check the others.

Shadowport Hunter got a small decrease in cost (33 to 64), as did the Scurrg (24 to 46), Kimogila stayed (22 to 44), Fang got an increase (!) (20 to 44), Quadjumper got a decrease (15 to 28), Uwing got a small decrease (22 to 43), Sheathipede stayed (15 to 30), ARC stayed (25 to 50), rebel TIE stayed (13 to 26), Auzituck got a decrease (24 to 46), Reaper got a decrease but was nerfed (22 to 41), Gunboat got a small decrease (18 to 35), Aggressor got a decrease (17 to 30), Strikers stayed the same (17 to 34).

Given this, we should take 60pt as minimum, but a decrease is actually more likely. So 59 or 58, and now we‘re in this funny territory of ‚NPE and broken‘.

1 hour ago, Blail Blerg said:

The upsilon was actually quite good in tier2. Only the fact that tier1 was stupidly broken made it not good.

This is a good point. And like Dragoon has said and vetted, there are 3 dials. So OBVIOUSLY now I need two more Upsilons!

Crisis averted! It's AWESOME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

1 hour ago, GreenDragoon said:

To further support that idea: there is not a single ship type in 2.0 conversion kits with too many componets to run all together at the same time. However, most medium/large ships only got 2 dials anyway. But eg Yt2400, falcon, vcx, or decimator all had 2 and all can run 2 in a list. None got 3. (Also shadowcaster didn‘t, and that‘s 64.)

Second point: the more recent releases often stayed very similar with tendency to point decrease. I went back to wave 9, but feel free to check the others.

Shadowport Hunter got a small decrease in cost (33 to 64), as did the Scurrg (24 to 46), Kimogila stayed (22 to 44), Fang got an increase (!) (20 to 44), Quadjumper got a decrease (15 to 28), Uwing got a small decrease (22 to 43), Sheathipede stayed (15 to 30), ARC stayed (25 to 50), rebel TIE stayed (13 to 26), Auzituck got a decrease (24 to 46), Reaper got a decrease but was nerfed (22 to 41), Gunboat got a small decrease (18 to 35), Aggressor got a decrease (17 to 30), Strikers stayed the same (17 to 34).

Given this, we should take 60pt as minimum, but a decrease is actually more likely. So 59 or 58, and now we‘re in this funny territory of ‚NPE and broken‘.

It's certainly difficult to get around the fact that little seems to have changed for the Upsilon between 1st and 2nd edition, and that once again it will almost certainly pay a premium for a 4-dice primary that it's rarely, if ever, going to get to use. Whether or not it's 'DOA' is another matter - maybe now that the First Order are seperate, it won't have to account for the entire range of Imperial ships when it is assigned a points cost which will allow it to be priced more aggressively, or perhaps the support potential and available crew for it are enough to make it worthwhile despite the ease with which it is outmaneuvered and the rarity of it actually contributing firepower.
I'd say it's definitely cause for concern that it didn't get the Phantom treatment, though, and that a lot hinges on the points and remaining pilots.

Lieutenant Sai with the title is 53 points, and honestly seems much stronger than Stridan, not to mention Dormitz or a generic. Sure, three dice is less than four, but after a coordinated focus, that is three fully modded, versus Stridans naked, and you can even fire backwards if necessary.

So figure decked out proper, we're looking at hmm.... 89 points?

So that's good wingman project options for either

a) Kylo / BO + blocker or two silencers (hmmm....)

b) 3 F/Os, with one being Midnight

c) 3 S/Fs

d) Midnight and Ace S/F

e) dare I say it---one Upsilon decked to crew, one decked to stress/attack, and MAYBE a blocker

The Favreau series and the animated are going to give us ship options. The future is bright for the dark side....

First Order no longer have lambdas, phantoms, TIE shuttles or Decimators… That makes the upsilon their only support ship with crew.

Want to use crew cards? You HAVE TO bring an upsilon.

That being said, it would be interesting for the Ups to have the option to remain stationary (more than one round, and without suffering automatic damage). For example, a crew, sensor or tech that discarded 1 stress at the end phase, or something that turned the red stop white. And it would be thematic, since in the Last Jedi, the thing remained practically motionless over the ATs the whole battle.

I think it's probably DOA at 60 points...

Look. The dial is just that bad. The Upsilon was borderline unplayable in 1e, because it couldn't reliably get it's powerful attack on a target. While ships have fewer dice mods in 2e, many are more maneuverable.

Personally, I think it should have been a 3-dice attack, and cost it at... 48 points?

I can't wait for the Xi Light Shuttle so FO can put a decent crew carrier on the table.

//

On the other hand, there's the fact that the First Order only has 4 different ships. A large part of why the 1e Upsilon didn't work was that it just fit awkwardly with existing Imperial prices. Most aces were in the low-to-mid 30s, and so a shuttle which starts at 30 points doesn't really have room. For example, an Upsilon/Vessery/Ryad list pretty much couldn't take real upgrades for the ships. If you wanted an Upsilon/Ace/Ace build, you had to get at least one budget ace.

But that's not necessarily going to be case now. Devs have hinted that the TIE SF is going to be a lot cheaper, folks figuring it'll be probably closer to an X-Wing in price once built than to an ARC, and perhaps a decently built named one in the mid-50s (like how a decent Wedge, Soontir, or Whisper can fit in). It might be the case that the other ships in the first order are going to be cheap enough for the builds to work out.

//

But in my head, I keep coming back to this thought: if I can get a TIE Silencer for the same cost as an Upsilon, I think a Silencer is just going to get more work done. That mobility really matters. I don't care that it has 1 fewer attack die, or half the hit points. If I can get an Advanced Sensors/Primed Thrusters TIE Silencer for 66 points, on something like a no-force Initiative 3 generic, I'm running one of those over probably any Upsilon.

9 hours ago, PhantomFO said:

We’ll see what other crew options it gets. If it has a way to manage the stress so that it doesn’t spend three turns trying to get turned around, then it’ll be fine.

If it has a way to manage stress then it might be able to just sit there and not even bother turning round

This is MY corner. You want it, you come get it. A 1 ship fortress.

A lot of its tricks seem to be about controlling the ships in front of it. So presumably, it's less about flying around, leveraging the big gun, than rolling incredibly slowly and debilitating anything you lead into it's arc with your enabled fighters. Then killing them with your big gun. I doubt it will be easy to do but, as with everything else I've seen in 2.0, if you do it well and with thought, it could be decent.

And you're not going to want to get in and blow it up straight off with the likes of Super Kylo and Fanatical Midnight scooting about.

21 minutes ago, Jehan Menasis said:

First Order no longer have lambdas, phantoms, TIE shuttles or Decimators… That makes the upsilon their only support ship with crew.

Want to use crew cards? You HAVE TO bring an upsilon.

The problem with defending a subpar crew carrier with that sort of reasoning is that you might as well say "Want to use crew cards? Play Empire then." The Upsilon has to be of at least somewhat comparable quality to ships in similar roles in other faction, or it'll never see play. Hux and Snoke are strong, but not strong enough to justify a 66 point ship that doesn't do anything except carry them around.

Hmm. Cannon slot, what if adding the title and a cannon gives it a rear arc with the cannon?

What if it has a white stop?

2 hours ago, Blail Blerg said:

The upsilon was actually quite good in tier2. Only the fact that tier1 was stupidly broken made it not good.

This actually. My upsilon did quite well a lot of the time.

Edit: Also electronic baffle now in the mod slot. 1hull was/is a small price to pay for repeated 4 shot attacks.

28 minutes ago, Scum4Life said:

What if it has a white stop?

It's red. The dial is in the article.

7 minutes ago, Okapi said:

It's red. The dial is in the article.

My bad bro. Hadn't read the article thoroughly and was winging it ?

Hmm, maybe it'll be alot cheaper than were thinking as it's the only carrier?

The cannon slot and linked battery is a certainly counter intuitive to the 4 die primary. Unless there is a cannon discount or way to double tap perhaps.

3 hours ago, Jarval said:

Given that the First Order conversion kit contains components for running three Upsilons, I think it's a safe be you'll be able to get three of them in 200 points.

http://xwing-miniatures-second-edition.wikia.com/wiki/First_Order_Conversion_Kit

Specifically, you get dials for the following:

• 7 – TIE/fo Fighters
• 5 – TIE/sf Fighters
• 3 – TIE/vn Silencers
• 3 – Upsilon-class Shuttles

Which should give a good baseline for the most the lowest Inititative generic pilot of each should cost.

• TIE/fo - 28 points (to get 7 in a list)
• TIE/sf - 40 points (to get 5 in a list)
• Silencer and Upsilon - 66 points (to get 3 in a list)

And there's a decent chance that any of those generics will be at least a few points cheaper to allow for some upgrades.

Yeesh that's a lot of dials I won't use. I have 4, 2, 1, 1. Looks like I need to work out someone to split a kit with.

Do we know the card counts yet? Also ugh you still only get 1 of each unique so kit splitting is a lot less good and I suspect the secondary market for these dials will be poor.

I'm not sure this will be worthwhile.

9 hours ago, Vineheart01 said:

yeah the upsilon feels weird...

They gave it a cannon slot? With a beefed up cannon baked in ability...on a 4die ship? What? Who the **** is going to use a tractor/ion cannon instead of their main 4die gun? Only time id ever see that used is HLC but its going to be uber hard to land that attack. Atleast Stridan is still a thing, his ability was dope.

Also imo snoke is horrible. R1 is the main range you'd want that ability, not the only one but the main one. That shouldnt be a 2 crew slot for such a meager ability.

But isn't Snoke's reveal in X Wing SuBvErTiNg ExPeCtAtIoNs???????

Disappointed Snoke didn't have 2 native force points with that ability.

2 hours ago, Scum4Life said:

The cannon slot and linked battery is a certainly counter intuitive to the 4 die primary. Unless there is a cannon discount or way to double tap perhaps.

A 4 die Ion Cannon at R2 is no joke though, right? It's a pretty big place you're not gonna want to put any of your ships. Particularly if they get double stressed on top of that. Next turn, you'll not be avoiding the 5 die primary.

Creating large places your opponent really doesn't want to go will play right into the hands of your wingmates.

3 hours ago, JasonCole said:

Hmm. Cannon slot, what if adding the title and a cannon gives it a rear arc with the cannon?

I tend to think any wild and massively different things like getting an extra arc, or getting a U-Wing style configuration, are the kinds of things they'd have put in the article.

The precise slots, the precise costs, those are unknown, but I think beyond that, things are unlikely.

5 minutes ago, theBitterFig said:

I tend to think any wild and massively different things like getting an extra arc, or getting a U-Wing style configuration, are the kinds of things they'd have put in the article.

The precise slots, the precise costs, those are unknown, but I think beyond that, things are unlikely.

The possibility also exists for a secondary turret arc somehow. I could see it being able to equip the SF Gunner upgrade, even if that's expensive on him. I could easily be wrong, but I don't really see the Upsilon that we're worried we'll get existing in a world that just gave us the Lambda w/ a rear arc.

I liked the thought of the white stop. What if the configuration allows it to treat its stationary maneuver as white, but it decreases its primary weapon value by 2? This gives it that menacing hovering feeling from the movies, and gives it a reason to equip a cannon. Now, that doesn't really help maneuverability, unfortunately, so I'm not sure how helpful a white stop would actually be.