Hi all,

Question is in the title really, are you using the HLC?

In 1.0 I was a prolific user of HLC with the cannon most commonly going on my beloved Gunboats.

Now the cannon seems very situational and tricky to use. To get a shot you firstly need to be in the bullseye, which can be very tricky for even highly maneuverable ships as E-wing lovers are finding with Corran. Once you get that bullseye shot you need to be in range 2 as now at range 3 the opponent will get their range bonus.

So, essentially the new cannon is a very different beast to the 1.0 version. For me I haven't used it at all as it seems more like a cannon you use if you have spare points and the ship doesn't rely on it. Conversely however I have heard of Skyk HLC swarms.

Anyways, I haven't seen anybody using HLC at any of the games at my club and am wondering if any of you have?

4 minutes ago, william1134 said:

Once you get that bullseye shot you need to be in range 2 as now at range 3 the opponent will get their range bonus.

In fairness, even at range 3, getting a 4th attack die is still a nice thing given that it's not exactly expensive. Landing a bullseye at range 3 is really hard, though, unless you're hunting wabbits large base ships.

I haven't tried it yet myself, but I'd imagine it could be a useful control piece. "If you go here, I'll get in that Cartel Spacer's HLC bullseye. I'd better go elsewhere." That is useful information, and might also cost them an action, or a shot. Maybe try to place those rocks close, so that enemy ships either have to stop on them, between them (where you've lined up the cannon), or zoom past (where they're less dangerous to you, or where you have a high I Fang ready to go, etc.). Going to take some practice though.

It's great at mulching medium and big ships, and at 4 points it's a steal.

I tried a B-Wing swarm with HLC. It was fun, and with a staggered formation and focus->BR you get a lot of bullseyes, but it was not terrible effective in the end.

I played a game with ten numb and keyan wannabe. It was very hard to land a single hlc shot on higher ps.

It's way cheaper, but I think it will only be used effectivly vs low ps and or large ships.

1 hour ago, william1134 said:

Hi all,

Question is in the title really, are you using the HLC?

In 1.0 I was a prolific user of HLC with the cannon most commonly going on my beloved double-tapping Tie Defenders or my Gunboats.

But you couldn’t double tap with HLC and the TIE/D title.

1 hour ago, DodgingArcs said:

But you couldn’t double tap with HLC and the TIE/D title.

Oh thats true! Sorry I was thinking of the Ions.... but I still miss the double tapping ion defenders.. sniff

2 hours ago, william1134 said:

Oh thats true! Sorry I was thinking of the Ions.... but I still miss the double tapping ion defenders.. sniff

You and me both. I used the tractor beam to line them up closer for range 1 shots. However, I ran two Defenders last night and their suitability man. I'm impressed. I gave both of them Ion cannons, and didn't even use them. Just used Juke with them and they were amazing.

On topic, I'm having a tough time lining up Bullseye arc shots. I think with more practice I'll be better at it. But thus far, I don't use too much of them.

This links back to that topic about chasing the bullseye arc....

I've liked putting them on twin Defenders but points are tight and they can easily go a game with just one HLC shot. I think, in that set up, its a mistake to hunt bullseye shots, so I generally don't include them now, points are better elsewhere.

However, I think there might be some use there. In games where the shots come up more often, they can make quite a difference, but for it to be worth it, you'd have to play for it. And that's beyond me with Defenders.

At 4 pts i take ot on a middlebased ship like the slave1.if i get you in arc fine. If not whatever. Most other previous carriers like the scyck i take ordinance.

I think it’s only worth about 4 points.

I've been using it on TIE Defenders. Initially I was just letting it happen, and it seemed worth it. I've had a few games lately where I've thought more specifically about moves that will maximize the odds of the HLC triggering, and had very good results. That said, I've also played games against large based ships or multiple medium based ships where I've had almost every shot be in the Bullseye or R1 without even trying that hard.

Quinn jast, hlc, afterburners, predator/crack shot.

Quinn reloading afterburners let's ya spend charges silly nilly. Helps me land more hlc shots, and is great fun. I normally pair with an ion turret kavil, or boba fett (carrying 4lom, discharge, marauder and veteran turret gunner)

If your ship has Barrel Roll than its far easier to get HLC on the joust than it seems.
I played Ten/Braylen and Cassian this weekend and had at least one HLC trigger each combat phase.

It's pretty bad, only offset by how cheap it is, but even still I think it could go down to 3 or 2 points even and still not be worth the opportunity cost for a lot of ships. The bullseye is just super hard to use, and you're only working with a fraction of the bullseye here because it's range 2-3.

If you're looking for a cannon for gunboats, I think the Nu with Assault config, advance slam and Ion cannon is pretty sweet, being able to SLAM around and still be able to attack and ion people is pretty annoying for the opponent. Add on collision detector to be even more annoying.

I like it on m3a's. Right now I use Inaldra. It is match up dependent though, if your playing against large base ships or medium based shuttles it is great, everything else is trickier.

12 hours ago, william1134 said:

Now the cannon seems very  situational and tricky to use  .

If you want a bunch of dice, be a better pilot. I'm more than happy to have a game where positioning actually means something rather than huge sweeping arcs of massive attack dice.

2 minutes ago, Slugrage said:

If you want a bunch of dice, be a better pilot. I'm more than happy to have a game where positioning actually means something rather than huge sweeping arcs of massive attack dice.

I've had a couple games where I selected maneuvers on approach to allow the next turn's move to put the HLC where I thought the target ship would go. When it has worked, it has been immensely satisfying, but those situations aren't always available.

6 hours ago, Dabirdisdaword said:

Quinn jast, hlc, afterburners, predator/crack shot.

Quinn reloading afterburners let's ya spend charges silly nilly. Helps me land more hlc shots, and is great fun. I normally pair with an ion turret kavil, or boba fett (carrying 4lom, discharge, marauder and veteran turret gunner)

That's so cool!

Except for Predator/Crack Shot. Those only work on Primary attacks. In some ways, I think that's the biggest thing holding HLC back. When you only have *one* of Predator or HLC, and you figure Bullseyes aren't going to be every-turn sorts of things, it's kind of a choice whether you want to have an extra die for 4 points, or a reroll for 2 points. While an extra die is more powerful, the reroll is half the price, and not that much worse, and it works at range 1.

//

I haven't personally flown HLC at all, but that's because I haven't had too many games, and there's just stuff I want to try more. The TIE Defender lists I've flown so far don't have the points to spare, I think it'd be bad on Gunboats (HLC without Barrel Roll just seems wrong), and I haven't gotten around to flying any more than one non-Imperial game yet. I'm certainly keen to try it on a B-Wing or a Scyk. I love how they designed the card.

Yes, I'm using it. Don't fear the Bullseye arc - embrace it.

It's cheap, it's capable of causing significant amounts of damage, it scares the bejeebus out of medium and large based ships and, best of all, it causes your opponent to second guess their manuevers and actions - set up a couple of criss-crossing Bullseye arcs and your opponent might well spend their action on a Boost or Barrel Roll rather than a Focus or Lock.

A Cartel Spacer with a HLC is 33 points. in a recent game they set up a no-fly zone that an enemy Falcon flew straight into. It limped out that first engagement under half health, and was a non-factor for the rest of the game.

^^ +1 many things. I think it's a good card. It's very situational, like all the things people are finding meh, but in the right circumstances and with good flying, it becomes more than the sum of its parts. I feel this because sometimes I accidentally get the benefits and wish I was good enough to do it on purpose.

Like, I've brutalised the AI on Fly Casual with it a few times. If I scale that up, so it was cleverer and I was even clevererer, I could maybe brutalise actual people with it....

15 hours ago, william1134 said:

Now the cannon seems very situational and tricky to use.

That seems to be by design. In First Edition, pretty much every cannon-user I saw used HLC (unless it was a situation like Gunboats, where they were trying to stay within a specific cost). Now it's no longer an auto-include.

1 hour ago, FTS Gecko said:

Yes, I'm using it. Don't fear the Bullseye arc - embrace it.

I like that they've made the Bullseye arc a standard tool for all ships to potentially access. It can be tricky to line up, but very rewarding when it does go off.

15 hours ago, william1134 said:

Once you get that bullseye shot you need to be in range 2 as now at range 3 the opponent will get their range bonus.

Opponents will get the range bonus, sure, but they'd get the same thing if you attacked with your primary weapon, too, and at least the HLC hits harder than primaries.

On Rexler, it functions as a very good scare piece, as the juke and pilot ability still punch in faceup cards (it's just that the damage is standard hit). However, in the list I like using it the most, it means that Soontir loses his Predator. I think a reroll on Soontir carries more value to my style than the threat of an extra die does on a single re-position ship.

Bullseye arc only makes this once terror of waves 2-6 now akin to the Advanced Proton Torpedo (1st ed.) It is just too easy to stay out of arc.

Some are saying that it works well against large/medium based ships but until those ships become dominant in the meta (and I don't see any posts crying about Fat Han yet) then currently it is not a good option. It is like taking assault missile in Wave 5 the era of 2 ship lists.