Hi everybody.
I have a question to Lord Vorun’thuls transformation.
If he teansforms, he teleport to a point at Range 1 oder Range 2.
What is the meaning of „at Range 1“ , for example.
Must the whole unit in range 1 or must just one piece of the unit (a corner for example) in range 1.
From rules reference pg 16:
64.6 The following language may be used when discussing range:
• At: If any portion of a unit’s tray is inside a specified band, that unit is at that band.
• Beyond: If no portion of a unit’s tray is inside either a specified band or band closer to the range “1” end of the range ruler than the specified band, that component is beyond the specified band.
• Range #–#: This range includes all of the range bands from the minimum to the maximum ranges specified.
• Within: If the entirety of all of a unit’s trays are inside a specified band, that unit is within that band.
Here's a good example from a game.
Lord V warps, and engages alliana while still at range 1 of his warp point. Then he squares up on her flank.
On 10/7/2018 at 7:45 PM, Jukey said:Here's a good example from a game.
Lord V warps, and engages alliana while still at range 1 of his warp point. Then he squares up on her flank.
Question:
Your Lord V seems to be facing west, towards what ever that unit is. . yet you have transformed and engaged Aliana who is behind you.
How did you do that when the unit must be within line of sight?
Generally curious as I may be doing his ability wrong if this is possible.
22 minutes ago, Viktus106 said:Question:
Your Lord V seems to be facing west, towards what ever that unit is. . yet you have transformed and engaged Aliana who is behind you.
How did you do that when the unit must be within line of sight?
Generally curious as I may be doing his ability wrong if this is possible.
LordV’s transformation doesn’t require the enemy unit to be in Line of Sight. It requires:
1) His new position be in line of sight
2) that he be engaged with an enemy unit when placed
It’s a little funky, but that pic should work fine
Edited by Church14It's quite disgusting. Here's a little diagram I put together a while back:
@Viktus106 in @Church14's image, LV is facing NNW, so it is a fully legal use of his ability. His swords make it seem that he is facing W.
It took me a couple of times looking at it to realize it was a legal move.
Also, fun fact: LordV cannot transform into his Cursed form if you engage his front. His skill requires him to be placed somewhere in LoS and he has nowhere in LoS if engaged in his front
His skill is a blue second action, tied to forward marches and a rally. He has no mechanic to shift away and transform in one turn.
I mean, he can do it in two turns, but that also means two turns of CursedV not smashing a flank in.
Edited by Church1449 minutes ago, Church14 said:Also, fun fact: LordV cannot transform into his Cursed form if you engage his front. His skill requires him to be placed somewhere in LoS and he has nowhere in LoS if engaged in his front
His skill is a blue second action, tied to forward marches and a rally. He has no mechanic to shift away and transform in one turn.
I mean, he can do it in two turns, but that also means two turns of CursedV not smashing a flank in.
We briefly wondered about this before deciding to use the permissive ruling that you can draw line of sight to the tiny sliver of space between your tray and theirs. Do you have reason to believe that you wouldn't have line of sight there? I know they FAQ'd out the triangles to either side, but I can't think of a reason that should apply here.
Similarly, if you engage his flank he can use a skill to teleport onto YOUR flank.
14 minutes ago, Bhelliom said:We briefly wondered about this before deciding to use the permissive ruling that you can draw line of sight to the tiny sliver of space between your tray and theirs. Do you have reason to believe that you wouldn't have line of sight there? I know they FAQ'd out the triangles to either side, but I can't think of a reason that should apply here.
Similarly, if you engage his flank he can use a skill to teleport onto YOUR flank.
So you are saying you guys play it so he can basically transform and stay in place if his front is engaged? Lemme go RRG and see what I find.
But yeah, that’s why I qualified my comment with engaging his front. It is completely legal AFAIK for him to transform and move from you flanking him to him flanking you.
Edited by Church1421 minutes ago, Church14 said:So you are saying you guys play it so he can basically transform and stay in place if his front is engaged? Lemme go RRG and see what I find.
But yeah, that’s why I qualified my comment with engaging his front. It is completely legal AFAIK for him to transform and move from you flanking him to him flanking you.
That's right. By that ruling he should be able to shift over one tray as well if he wants to, though that part hasn't come up yet.
4 hours ago, Bhelliom said:That's right. By that ruling he should be able to shift over one tray as well if he wants to, though that part hasn't come up yet.
I disagree. I think @Church14 has it right. From the FAQ:
"Q: Can a unit that is engaged with its front edge entirely in
contact with an enemy unit trace line of sight to another
unit through the narrow, unobstructed areas at the corners
of the engaged unit’s firing arc?
A: No."
2 hours ago, Parakitor said:I disagree. I think @Church14 has it right. From the FAQ:
"Q: Can a unit that is engaged with its front edge entirely in
contact with an enemy unit trace line of sight to another
unit through the narrow, unobstructed areas at the corners
of the engaged unit’s firing arc?
A: No."
I agree that it sets a curious precedent, but as far as I can tell the line of sight rules are unambiguous. You draw a line between two points in your front arc, and you have line of sight. Work of art to demonstrate:
Since there is a gap between the trays, there must be line of sight. Accordingly, there is a place for his tray, as such:
That being said, I think the FAQ is clear that you couldn't place yourself so far over as to align two trays away.
UPDATE: ok so the only line of sight restriction is that you be placed at range 1 and in line of sight. At requires only some portion of the tray, so this becomes perfectly legal: 
I think @Parakitor is right. I believe that rule about line of sight is in place because they never intended things to see out of that space but didn't realize people were doing that so they had to make that clarification. I think the folks aware of that rule are fully aware that there is a space that would normally allow one to draw line of sight; this is no oversight on their part. Rather, they are overruling what would normally be the case.