4 minutes ago, clontroper5 said:Well, I'm lost so I'm going to take a back seat this time around...
@The Jabbawookie that is a good idea
Please don’t take a back seat. We need all hands on deck when we’re at Situation Critical.
Irrepressible Optimism {mafia} Concluded
6 hours ago, Bertie Wooster said:OK, I will talk.
Matt wondered why I seem to suspect everyone but GNIP. As for Gengis, I pointed out that "my emperor's holy balls" comment seemed odd, but Gengis clarified and I accepted. I joined Pod's roulette game, but then after seeing the result of the "innocent" Pazaak game, I wondered if the roulette had a secret twist to it. Pod clarified this also, and I accepted.
The game between LP and Matt began to seem suspicious to me after thinking about the "lose your vote" conditions. GNIP was the first to point this out, and he has already waxed eloquently about why this is so. So I have no reason to suspect GNIP. Everything GNIP has said and done seems like normal town behavior to me. Starting the LP train looks more like a smart town play than a scum play.
I switched my vote to Visovics because I thought his silence was suspicious. I was wrong. I don't want to make that mistake again by voting for Jabbawookie.
Nothing seems more suspicious now than Matt's defense of LP, for reasons already discussed. Maybe I can write more about that later. But I am pretty sure my vote is going to be for LP this day.
Oops, looks like you've done a fair bit of talking. My bad. ##unvote... for now.
I'd like to work under a "guilty until proven innocent" protocol here, because we have a decent chance of catching scum through sheer RNG. For myself, I've got my impeccable voting record. Can I hear reasons from the rest of you why there isn't a 44% chance of you being scum?
4 minutes ago, The Jabbawookie said:Oops, looks like you've done a fair bit of talking. My bad. ##unvote... for now.
I'd like to work under a "guilty until proven innocent" protocol here, because we have a decent chance of catching scum through sheer RNG. For myself, I've got my impeccable voting record. Can I hear reasons from the rest of you why there isn't a 44% chance of you being scum?
well, I for one, was ready to take a hammer before Matt did, because I can prove my loyalty then, but now since Town lost 2 votes, every vote count, if Town strikes 3x, then they lose majority after the next hammer.
Just now, Constantine Valdor said:well, I for one, was ready to take a hammer before Matt did, because I can prove my loyalty then, but now since Town lost 2 votes, every vote count, if Town strikes 3x, then they lose majority after the next hammer.
Which is interesting from a town standpoint, because you didn't know Matt was innocent and if you actually died, nothing good would be accomplished. Granted it makes no sense from a scum standpoint either, I'm just curious as to your reasoning.
##vote @Constantine Valdor - were you Town your death would have solved nothing last round except to have deprived Town of Town. My death or Matt’s death would have cleared a suspect (with the potential for helping bolster the Town cred of another) and help move all players on from the rut we were stuck in.
Just now, Lord Preyer said:##vote @Constantine Valdor - were you Town your death would have solved nothing last round except to have deprived Town of Town. My death or Matt’s death would have cleared a suspect (with the potential for helping bolster the Town cred of another) and help move all players on from the rut we were stuck in.
Go on, vote me and you'll 100% lose town majority next turn/day.
1 minute ago, Constantine Valdor said:Go on, vote me and you'll 100% lose town majority next turn/day.
I’m afraid I need more than that to change my mind as that is now what anyone and everyone can say.
Just now, Constantine Valdor said:Go on, vote me and you'll 100% lose town majority next turn/day.
That's a risk we're guaranteed to take, but we don't need to take it with you. I'm actually more interested in an explanation of the hammer you mentioned trying to take for Matt.
@GhostofNobodyInParticular - what’s your read now?
And LP, since you're here; what's your defense?
14 minutes ago, The Jabbawookie said:And LP, since you're here; what's your defense?
See ‘Gengis Versus Lord’, p1-20. Am pretty sure no player has defended themselves and explained their actions more this game. If you still suspect me after all of this than it is done.
17 minutes ago, The Jabbawookie said:That's a risk we're guaranteed to take, but we don't need to take it with you. I'm actually more interested in an explanation of the hammer you mentioned trying to take for Matt.
Well some people was suspicious of Matt due to the card game and the fact he won it, I'm know my role and want the town to focus their attention and voting somewhere, because I see Matt as a bit loyal, and turns out he is. Basicly trying to take the Heat (cause i was at 0 vote for a while) and want to see who's gonna try to steer back to Matt. I suspect clon is one of the baddies and 50/50 on LP.
Crew:
Me!
Crew?
GNIPs, Pod, Jabba
Agents?
GJ, Bernie
Saboteur?
CV, Clon, Cal
##unvote @Constantine Valdor so as hot to risk 4 Scum swooping down if I’m in error
I’ll probably be returning to vote CV later though but would still be particularly interested in the thoughts/instincts of @GhostofNobodyInParticular @PodRacer And @The Jabbawookie
And now ?
You think I'm the Saboteur now? That's seems far fetched to me haha, I could see arguing scum but THEE SABOTEUR?
You will have to explain yourself @Lord Preyer when you wake up
...
Well, it's too late now I guess, but here was my reasoning at the time:
Possibility 1: LP is Saboteur, and Matt (Agent) is defending him.
Possibility 2: LP is NOT Saboteur, Matt (Agent) knows it, but he's defending him in order to reverse -psychologize us into killing LP, realizing he's town, and then trusting Matt afterwards.
Since Matt was Agent in both my scenarios, he seemed like the safer choice.
I'm honestly not sure that LP is scum now, but I have no solutions. I just read the past five pages and my mind was BLOWN.
Just curious where these accusations are coming from, LP. I am still pretty confident in a Constantine Valdor vote, as I was before. Matt seemed convincing enough to me.
Also, appears we are at lylo so I'd be careful wit those votes today.
1 hour ago, Lord Preyer said:But seriously GJ. We can’t afford this. Please turn your admirable inquisitorial instincts elsewhere. If you push on me again today it’s totally counterproductive to Karrde’s interests. Time to put profits ahead of Old tunnels!
Come on, LP, you totally opened yourself up to that one.. with your “honoring-the-dying-wishes” foot in your mouth.
I was totally prepared, even interested in, pursuing other possibilities. And I remain so.
But this, once again, over the top protesting is a bit much.
Your logic seems to be that since Matt took a bullet you should be vindicated of all suspicion. I will be the first to admit that Matt did himself no favors by increasing suspicion on himself. But that doesn’t somehow decrease the suspicion on you.
Some facts...
Fact 1 — You offered to play cards AND very quickly offered up your vote to the winner. Playing cards — a harmless banter generator. No biggie. But giving up your vote? That’s something altogether different. And despite your protests to the contrary, I’ve yet to hear you offer up a reasonable explanation. Just being spicy? Yeah, I don’t buy it.
Fact 2 — You were very quick to jump on the random vote kill wagon at the end of the last round. Again, like giving up your vote, a random kill is just plain reckless. Especially if you know one of those people had already voted against you and the other hadn’t been supporting you. And, most importantly for someone who likes to gamble, if you’re scum you know the odds are in your favor.
Fact 3 — Convenient reinterpretations. “Vis died after D1 RNGness,” you say. The most bizarre part of D1 was how random it wasn’t, at least at the end. The people who voted for Vis were convinced they had scum, including you. With the facts available then I was convinced you *looked* more suspicious. My suspicions weren’t random at all. And Vis suspected you for the same reasons. And in the end, even Matt voted against you. And yet you twist his innocence into somehow equating into your supposed innocence.
These are all facts. Do they prove you’re guilty? Not at all. But I don’t hear any facts from you. Only repeated encouragement to go after the quieter players.
So, again, I’m willing and even happy to explore other possibilities, but for now you remain the only viable suspect at this point.
And until I hear someone make a compelling case against someone else...
##vote LP
All mafia games from now on day one
Podracer: ##vote Ebon!
Ebonhawk: what the heck! I was going to put this rivalry behind us but since you Insist! ##vote pod
(Some time later)
Lord preyer: I have examined the conversation so far, here are my thoughts {insert comprehensive breakdown of posts to that point}
Gengis Jon: {quotes part of breakdown} hmmm this looks suspicious...
(Next day)
Lord preyer: dang we got the wrong guy, let me review everything...
Gengis Jon: {points out a possible flaw in breakdown} ##vote Lord preyer,
5 hours ago, GhostofNobodyInParticular said:
I don't get it. You guys started with a suspicion of LP, moved to Matt, both of which for reasons of post content and actions, and are now, at the urging of those self same two, willing to vote a random quiet person purely based on the result of a die roll, to test the theories that your suspects have concocted to move pressure off of themselves, on the argument that the scum would be trying to keep pressure off of the saboteur?
At the risk of being accused of serving my lord and master, or whatever ? , this was the most common sense call to logic in all the distracting craziness of the last round. I missed it then, but I’ll happy call it out now. Thank you GNIPS for being the voice of reason.
Good morning.
This is written with a little bit of feeling although I try to be polite.
GJ. Stop. Please. Please stop! Game 1, you pursued me all game. You kept saying ‘something isn’t right’. I was Town. Game 2, ditto. Game 3, you checked me on Night One of all the players you could have check. Again I was Town. Game 4 now. You again spend the whole game focusing on me! And do you know what, when you look at one player and one player only at that level of intensity you WILL find things: inconsistencies, contradictions, Scumtells!
But you will also find I am Town. Again.
I will now respond (for the 7 zillionth time) to your accusations. After this I will not. If you kill me and we lose so be it. I can only hope that Game 5 will somehow be different.
1) I did not say it was just being spicy. I said it was multiply determined including the presumption that I could win at Pazaak and knowing I was Town could then also control another vote at a time in which I didn’t know who to trust. I also found the idea of doing something other than say ‘everyone needs to talk more!’ attractive. I have said these things as explanation before.
2) It was not just a random kill. As I have also set out in multiple posts, my theory of what is optimal play for Scum leads me to believe we should focus on quieter players for the saboteur. I may be wrong but that is my theory. I have used and remain willing to use any measure, including asking for the help of coin flippers, in pursuit of that goal because in the absence of scans and claims and in the presence of what really does feel like tunnelling by you it has been hard to get a better read. I have also said this before.
3) “Fact 3” with respect this is far more a theory of the case than a fact. I understand this theory but reject it. It is based on your hunch and nothing I can say or do can seem to shift you from this hunch. In the end even Matt voted against me when he thought the alternative was his own death and knowing he was Town and seeing as he seemed to believe that the choice would likely come down to one of us that made sense for him to do so. But Matt was not Scum as you thought and so perhaps his defenses of me as more likely Town (which you dismissed at the time) may gain added value after the fact.
I would also say this. How many times are you going to say “I have a bad feeling about Preyer?” and how many times do I have to flip Town for this to stop? You will be right sometime, because sometimes (though not in this game or in any game we have played to date) I will draw scum and that will happen. But when it does I hope you uncover me because of an open minded investigation not just a ‘if I attack Marcus every game I’ll get him eventually!’ which is really what this feels like now - especially when you flip between ‘EXPLAIN YOURSELF’ posts and ‘you protest too much’ statements. There is no way I can win when you do that. Combine that with your willingness, as Clon points out, to find a failed comma splice in a post of mine and reactivate all over again. I hope you can see why I might be forgiven for having reached the end of my tether on this.
So where does this leave us, with you, again, dragging the game back to me. And us, again, not scum hunting in any other direction.
If it weren’t for the fact that I think this is probably about your instincts being wrong (sorry to be so blunt!) I would go back to thinking this was Agent behaviour. And whilst that theory may be true I’m more interested in trying to explore something else in this game for a while (because I think the saboteur is a quieter player and thus not likely you) rather than do this constant me-versus you thing.
5 hours ago, Caldias said:Just curious where these accusations are coming from, LP. I am still pretty confident in a Constantine Valdor vote, as I was before. Matt seemed convincing enough to me.
Also, appears we are at lylo so I'd be careful wit those votes today.
I generally put good store in Pod’s instinctive feels so that’s the start of it. Also you are a super dangerous player always and you have been a wee bit quieter than usual. Hence my suspicion, nothing more.
I am still prepared to vote CV but withdrew my vote precisely because we are at Lylo and could see a scenario whereby my more likely scum suspects quickly joined that train and all of a sudden I was guilty of having aided then in error. Thus I asked for the view of those players I think are more likely Town in the hopes that they would say ‘yeah CV’ before returning to my vote.
On 10/7/2018 at 2:49 PM, Caldias said:Me too
Because this is what I know to do... (and because Clon made me smile).
As always, please let me know if I have erred at any point and missed something out.
All Cal posts.
On 10/9/2018 at 4:11 AM, Caldias said:##role confirmed
On 10/9/2018 at 2:21 PM, Caldias said:No night phase is interesting! I mean, I guess we're in space after all.
On 10/9/2018 at 11:39 PM, Caldias said:Geez we are playing for votes now? I'm not so good at cards so sounds like I'm in trouble.
On 10/10/2018 at 3:03 AM, Caldias said:So anyone have any reads? Aside from cards, of course.
Visovics and GNIPs seem quiet, which is suspicious, but could be the time zone thing. Visovics also specifically asked for talking, but then did a fade away.
On the other side, our card players have sort of dominated the conversation, much like our good friend EbonHawk last game, and we all remember how he turned out.
On 10/10/2018 at 1:21 PM, Caldias said:I have to say, gambling away a vote does seem pretty reckless.
On 10/10/2018 at 6:08 PM, Caldias said:Hey all, catching up. I admit I haven't been super active, will be more attentive now that I'm through the morning. LP looked like a good vote for me, but now I'm hesitating. His point about quiet scum just jumping on a vote is a valid one. Vis is looking like a decent place to vote but I'd like to hear from him before a train forms.
On 10/10/2018 at 9:35 PM, Caldias said:Good Lord you guys can't help but gamble
On 10/10/2018 at 11:22 PM, Caldias said:Yeah that's a fair point, Pod. For me he's still the best target just from what I've been seeing, of course day one blah blah. I'm willing to put him at L1 if you think that might help get him to answer, but I'm worried it might draw hammer from a scum player just in case he's actually town.
On 10/11/2018 at 3:33 AM, Caldias said:Oh wow.
I just reread the setup and missed this on my first pass through (I admittedly skimmed it).
So two Imperial agents, but they don't know each others' identities. Only the agents know who the saboteur is, but the saboteur doesn't know who the agents are. And of course no night means no night chat.
This might make it easier for scum to hide, as they don't know who all the other scum are, and might seem more townie through ignorance.
Interesting set up.
On 10/11/2018 at 5:11 AM, Caldias said:hahahaha, maybe. Not trying to lurk, but not much to say with all the hot gambling action going on.
I'm not sure about Matt being scum, he seems to be actively trying to make sense, or could be epic scum.
Only other read I have is where is GNIPs?
17 hours ago, Caldias said:Ah, I actually read that as the Saboteur being included as one of the three imperial sympathizers. Could be the way you say, though.
17 hours ago, Caldias said:Cool, thanks! Looks a little tougher than I originally thought, then.
15 hours ago, Caldias said:I agree, it looks like he is working pretty hard to protect him.
LP is slippery due to his unique brand of cheekiness that he exudes. Looks like we only need to vote the saboteur off, and with this being the best lead on a busy day, I will
##vote @Lord Preyer
at least until something else turns up. Will review further to see if there's anything else that might stick out this evening.
14 hours ago, Caldias said:##unvote
This is a good point, much like the Pod/Ebon distractions of yore. I mean, the gambling thing could also be a way for a scum agent to tip his hat to a scum saboteur under the radar, so I'm not completely convinced, but your argument has merit.
We have time, I'll take my vote off so you don't get trained while I dig further.
9 hours ago, Caldias said:This seems a bit melodramatic to me. Like a scum who doth protest too much. I don't see any votes on him.
##vote Constantine Valdor
5 hours ago, Caldias said:Just curious where these accusations are coming from, LP. I am still pretty confident in a Constantine Valdor vote, as I was before. Matt seemed convincing enough to me.
Also, appears we are at lylo so I'd be careful wit those votes today.
I don’t know if CV is our best shot or not right now. I really want to hit from an unexpected angle, because there’s a distinct lack of vocal concern out there rn (LP vs Gengis excluded.) That almost leads me to think scum is sitting back while we dig our graves. Unexpected targets would be:
Bertie Wooster
He’s been reasonable so far. His name just isn’t appearing much, not my first pick to lynch. Probably a worse choice than CV.
Caldias
A lot of what he’s said is open information already, and he’s been overall pretty quiet (pot to kettle...). Having watched a game or two where he was scum and comparing his contributions then with now, I’d be very on board with killing him.
PodRacer
His judgement has made a lot more sense to me this game. Maybe I’m just beginning to appreciate his playstyle, or maybe it’s a scumtell of some sort. Better choice than BW, worse than Caldias IMO.