Sorry I’ve been unresponsive guys; preparing for exams irl. I’m suspicious of Visovics voters 2, 3 and 4; @PodRacer , @Matt3412 and @Lord Preyer . We must have some scum in that train. Matt and Pod have been talkative and contributing for most of the game, Preyer’s been trying to not get killed for gambling. So I’d probably go for Preyer, even though this game is less fun without him. I also understand I’ve been behaving in a manner perfect for scummarining, and if that kills me I understand. In any case, it’s past time I threw out a vote:

##vote Lord Preyer

Can someone on a computer update the votes?

Right. Am pretty sure I’ll be hammered.

So here’s my testament: I reject @Gengis Jon ‘s accusations but we all know this and I’ve done this too many times to do it again. I think he’s the Agent (though not the saboteur - too public!) trying to draw heat from the saboteur so I will ##vote @Gengis Jon . No matter what I say, he rejects it. And if I don’t engage with something, he finds that suspicious. In a Kobayashi Maru like that I have little choice but to leave this vote as my theory/warning.

Good luck Town!

13 minutes ago, Lord Preyer said:

No  matter what I say, he rej  ects it. And if I don’t engage with somethi  ng, he finds that suspici   o  u  s. 

“Pot calling the kettle black” much?

22 minutes ago, The Jabbawookie said:

Sorry I’ve been unresponsive guys; preparing for exams irl. I’m suspicious of Visovics voters 2, 3 and 4; @PodRacer , @Matt3412 and @Lord Preyer . We must have some scum in that train. Matt and Pod have been talkative and contributing for most of the game, Preyer’s been trying to not get killed for gambling. So I’d probably go for Preyer, even though this game is less fun without him. I also understand I’ve been behaving in a manner perfect for scummarining, and if that kills me I understand. In any case, it’s past time I threw out a vote:

##vote Lord Preyer

Technically matt cast votes 3 and 4.

let me tally us some votes real quick

VOTE TALLY

Matt3412 - PodRacer
Lord Preyer: PodRacer, Gengis Jon, Caldias, The Jabbawookie

GhostofNobodyInParticular: Matt3412

The Jabbawookie: Matt3412

Gengis Jon: Lord Preyer

50 minutes ago, Matt3412 said:

New observation:

If more than 7 Players are willing to go after someone with lines of questions then they cant be the Saboteur its just too risky to help create that pressure.

The saboteur will be someone that is being defended

[I get this makes me look bad with me defending LP but do to point one i'm willing to fall on this sword for the time being] However i Believe that more people would be defending LP if he was the Saboteur and not so many people would have gone after him D1.

It will be very difficult to actually get all 6 town to vote for the Saboteur because we would be the only ones voting and be getting a hard counter from 4 parties potentially

I guess we need to Eliminate an Agent.

Upon review, This statement has me more and more suspicious.

Matt, points out that the scum will try to avoid a saboteur train (true) and points out there has been so much pressure on him the chances of him being saboteur is very low, I disagree with this... And then Matt continues to try and divert attention away from LP (while pointing this out at himself, perhaps to try and appear innocent?)

For this reason I propose we hammer Matt, if he proves to be scum we can then move to kill LP as the likly saboteur the next day. If Matt proves innocent it would then show he was just being LPs friend I guess. Basically if LP is bad, I think Matt is bad. And Vic a versa. But otherwise I suspect both to be innocent...

Thoughts?

" points   out there has been so much pressure on him" this is supposed to refer to LP, like Matt is pointing out pressure on LP

6 minutes ago, clontroper5 said:

Upon review, This statement has me more and more suspicious.

Matt, points out that the scum will try to avoid a saboteur train (true) and points out there has been so much pressure on him the chances of him being saboteur is very low, I disagree with this... And then Matt continues to try and divert attention away from LP (while pointing this out at himself, perhaps to try and appear innocent?)

For this reason I propose we hammer Matt, if he proves to be scum we can then move to kill LP as the likly saboteur the next day. If Matt proves innocent it would then show he was just being LPs friend I guess. Basically if LP is bad, I think Matt is bad. And Vic a versa. But otherwise I suspect both to be innocent... 

Thoughts?

Well, if it's all the same (LP's state is Matt's, Matt's is LP's) why not lynch LP, whom Matt is protecting and who has more votes, rather than lynching Matt, who is protecting and has no votes? Essentially I am curious why you have chosen Matt instead of LP if you believe their alignment to be the same.

3 minutes ago, clontroper5 said:

Upon review, This statement has me more and more suspicious.

Matt, points out that the scum will try to avoid a saboteur train (true) and points out there has been so much pressure on him the chances of him being saboteur is very low, I disagree with this... And then Matt continues to try and divert attention away from LP (while pointing this out at himself, perhaps to try and appear innocent?)

For this reason I propose we hammer Matt, if he proves to be scum we can then move to kill LP as the likly saboteur the next day. If Matt proves innocent it would then show he was just being LPs friend I guess. Basically if LP is bad, I think Matt is bad. And Vic a versa. But otherwise I suspect both to be innocent...

Thoughts?

I agree with much of what you're saying. But bc of the blind nature that scum find themselves in, I think it's entirely possible one could be scum but not the other. LP could be the Sabo and Matt is just unwittingly protecting him, for example. Or the other way around.

That said, I am suspicious of both of them so I would be on board with a Matt vote.

6 minutes ago, GhostofNobodyInParticular said:

Well, if it's all the same (LP's state is Matt's, Matt's is LP's) why not lynch LP, whom Matt is protecting and who has more votes, rather than lynching Matt, who is protecting and has no votes? Essentially I am curious why you have chosen Matt instead of LP if you believe their alignment to be the same.

Personally it's because I think Matt is acting more suspicious and I feel is more likely to be bad, therefore I think it's safer to lynch him then go on to lynch LP if Matt is scum.

I otherwise pretty much think LP is innocent except for Matt's defense of him. I guess we could go the other way, I just have a bad feeling about Matt lol

well this spiraled quickly. remember there is people who are intentionally trying to keep us all confused. And i'm getting confused

from a logic standpoint we would kill LP then either

A) win

B) agent (means i wasn't protecting him how would i know?)

C) town (means i wasn't protecting him how would i know?) also i would be correct in my thinking ?

or maybe just maybe LOOK SOMEWHERE ELSE

Just now, Matt3412 said:

or maybe just maybe LOOK SOMEWHERE ELSE

Where though? That's all I got other then flipping coins and picking someone randomly...

Maybe GNIPs...

personally those who are tunnling LP.

However honestly and more unbiased from my point of view those not playing either side.

Like the Jabbowookie Though i'm starting to feel like something happened too him Please be okay!!

Or yes @GhostofNobodyInParticular , or @PodRacer 's quiet, or @Gengis Jon or i hate to shoot the only one agreeing with me but MR coin flip @clontroper5

jabb posted my bad glad to see you alive

1 minute ago, Matt3412 said:

from a logic standpoint we would kill LP then either

A) win

B) agent (means i wasn't protecting him how would i know?)

C) town (means i wasn't protecting him how would i know?) also i would be correct in my thinking ?

Sorry, Logic Fail

LP could easily be town and you're still scum. If you were either an agent or the Sabo, of course you would happily accept protection/alliance from anyone who offered it. And fan whatever he says to your advantage. All the more to make you look innocent if he does get taken out and is innocent.

There is guilt by association, yes. But not always. And in the same way, there is innocent by association as well... but definitely not always.

And before I hear another overblown characterization of how diabolically evil genius, fiendishly cunning this would be, I will say flat out, no -- it's just mediocre-smart level playing, and that's all.

i never said any of this makes me proved either way

Stuck at work rn, effort post in a few hours

@Matt3412 But what to we have to go on for those people? Any reason? Or just shooting in the dark somewhere else?

i think all of our effort went into this Pazaak game debate i think its a distraction and i'm trying to guard against it.

I am going to go back and look through this whole debate if i can find any signals.

Jabb = Level expert under the radar right now

honestly other then that i need to read and take my time, i think we all should

I fear for the following:

- I am lynched (thanks in no small part to tunnelling by Imps - hi GJ!

- I flip Town

- Imps than tunnel on Matt - who may or may not be an Agent himself that’s what earns them the cred to continue to protect the saboteur who is...

- ONE OF THE QUIET PLAYERS!!