Is it just me or are the pilot Talents in 2.0 mostly underwhelming?

This is not an in depth analysis but more my impressions of the current selection of talents.

IMHO these are how I'd rate the current talents.

Strong = crackshot, trickshot, debris gambit, predator, elusive, fearless, juke, outmanever, lone wolf.

Playable but situational = fearless, swarm tactics, marksmanship, ruthless, selfless.

Weak = expert handling, composure, daredevil, intimidation, saturation salvo.

I'd be tempted to say they're mostly all strong but situational....

Considering they're all pretty cheap compared to 1.0, I'm very happy with them.

I do miss Expertise, not that I want that OP nonsense back, but if it would just passively convert 1 eye to a hit I'd consider it in a couple of my builds. Like for 2 or 3pt on Lt Kestal for e.g.

I agree, most of the Pilot Talents feel pretty weak in comparison to 1.0 cards.

Sometimes this leaves me wondering if some of these talents are valuable at all.

Let's talk about Predator for example. It was one of the best talents in 1.0 but now it's not as good anymore, because it only works in the bullseye. I wouldn't use it, unless I am flying a ship, which is very maneuverable and has got an interaction with the bullseye anyway. So this would add up for a reasonable price.

Apart from that, Predator is a lot weaker than in 1.0, just like a lot of talents.

But that could be a good thing, because you don't always get fully modified shots these days.

Something like a focus token does actually have a value again. So you better don't miss your action.

Back in 1.0 I remember playing ships, that were almost indestructible and could fire shots in all directions and modify the **** out of these shots, even if they bumped into another ship.

I mean, your Weak category is half-full of some of my favorite cards?

Expert Handling is great for Y-Wings, ARCs, and Auzitucks, if you can spare the points and the slot. And as you point out, the slot isn’t great for much else.

Im glad there aren’t any super obvious must-take-for-all-ships cards, though. That’s a huge part of what makes 2.0 so great: meaningful decisions.

IMO it's nice that they are now options and filling the slot isn't a no brainer.

Juke is quite better than the other Talents, but I don't know if it's due to the talent itself or the specific ships (phantoms, defenders) that get free evades.

5 minutes ago, Schu81 said:

I agree, most of the Pilot Talents feel pretty weak in comparison to 1.0 cards.

Sometimes this leaves me wondering if some of these talents are valuable at all.

Let's talk about Predator for example. It was one of the best talents in 1.0 but now it's not as good anymore, because it only works in the bullseye. I wouldn't use it, unless I am flying a ship, which is very maneuverable and has got an interaction with the bullseye anyway. So this would add up for a reasonable price.

Apart from that, Predator is a lot weaker than in 1.0, just like a lot of talents.

But that could be a good thing, because you don't always get fully modified shots these days.

Something like a focus token does actually have a value again. So you better don't miss your action.

Back in 1.0 I remember playing ships, that were almost indestructible and could fire shots in all directions and modify the **** out of these shots, even if they bumped into another ship.

good points. a agree they are way weaker which makes me wonder if they are worth the points investment. there is a need to split points between initiative bid and talents in some lists which makes the talents just not worth it in some cases.

there are no AUTO includes anymore like there was in 1.0 where you just had to play certain upgrades to be competitive... expertise, predator, Push the Limit, Lone Wolf and veteran instincts we some of the talents the pushing power of lists over the top in 1.0. im not suggesting bringing these upgrades back to their previous power level but i do think they have nerfed some of them into the 'not worth the points' realm now.

3 minutes ago, Giledhil said:

Juke is quite better than the other Talents, but I don't know if it's due to the talent itself or the specific ships (phantoms, defenders) that get free evades.

^^^

As a Rebel player, I don’t have much use for it.

3 minutes ago, SpiderMana said:

^^^

As a Rebel player, I don’t have much use for it.

scum player here also have little use for Juke. 2.0 nerfed the evade action and target lock actions for some ships.

Yes

But maybe we just had it to good in 1.0

9 minutes ago, SpiderMana said:

^^^

As a Rebel player, I don’t have much use for it.

Unless you're putting Jyn Erso in your list, there are few ships that can really benefit from it. Even for the Imperials, perhaps the most Evade-heavy faction, doesn't really benefit from it except with Defenders and Phantoms as was mentioned previously. It's strong, yes, but only in certain builds. There are other EPTs that are less situational, but I think with a lot of them it's probably better to save points for other things.

I think they've been toned-down and worded in such ways that doesn't make them auto-include/too strong in order to increase diversity, but also to reward bold flying (Predator, Crack Shot, etc) and promote the use of more generics that don't have EPTs.

Currently yes. Because talents work across all pilots they're going to be a key lane for power creep forcing players to buy new expansions.

2 minutes ago, X Wing Nut said:

Yes

But maybe we just had it to good in 1.0

yes. and no.

TLT, PTL and sabine crew were just some of the OP things FFG let through. There are threads on this stuff here in the forums. power creep and OP silliness. 360 turrets. damage mitigation/regeneration. dice mods in some lists that negated any requirement to actually fly your squad with skill. mindlinked manaroo lists were borderline OP but were not the worst offenders. we are now in a new era with less OP everything. thats a good thing. just still getting my head around whats good and whats not in 2.0.

I think the word you're looking for is "balanced".

1 hour ago, SpiderMana said:

^^^

As a Rebel player, I don’t have much use for it.

Perceptive, jyn Juke Uwings

Let the jank flow through you!

Just now, ficklegreendice said:

Perceptive, jyn Juke Uwings

Let the jank flow through you!

After responding to this thread I was starting to wonder about flying Juke on E-Wings, too, but hey that looks like a fun build for Saw.

Yeah, they are mostly underwhelming.

That's a feature, not a bug.

I am not a big fan of Juke actually.

It feels wrong to mess with green dice. Green dice are fickle enough, so if somebody rolls something, it's really mean to roll that over again.

Apart from that, I prefer talents which modify my stuff not mess up the other person's rolls.

Certainly toned down from 1.0. I think its been good so far though. There are good options for certain builds for sure, but overall yes I'd agree there are very few auto includes like we had with 1.0.

One thing is like to see are some of them have a variable cost a la some modifications based on initiative value.

They are, but alot of things are now "underwhelming".

I think this is a good thing though. Mods are harder to get, actions can fail and are more valuable than ever. Pilot abilities that don't add extra attacks or dice is now powerful enough to make a difference.

In 2.0 way more ships can use ept than 1.0, however these ept's are now only good and nog great/insane. This makes me look more for pilot and ship abilities instead of ept symbol when building lists

when you compare the the amount of Talents with the amount of Crew you then realise how little in the way of good Talents we got.

33 minutes ago, Darth evil said:

when you compare the the amount of Talents with the amount of Crew you then realise how little in the way of good Talents we got.

Haven't gone through all the cards, but I believe we just got a lot more gunner/crew than talents

Mostly because we have FAR more unique and/or faction specific gunner/crew, as necessitated by all the characters across the star wats IP

So yeah, we've got more amazing crew options because we've got more options in general

...which also means we got a LOT of crap options. The bottom line for the quality of gunner/crew upgrades is set a lot lower than the one for talents

I'd say the only really strong talent now is Juke, and only really strong on Defenders and Phantoms.

Everything else is situational, linked to positioning, limited uses or has minor effects. Marginal gains and limited applications. There's a couple of obvious combos (Arvel + Intimidation), but for the most part you're not going to see one Elite Talent dominating above all others or being a nailed-on choice.

And that's fine. I don't particularly want to see talents that are "always on" like VI, or limit choices like PTL. Talents should reinforce good flying, not replace it.

Is it me or is there a general trend towards comparing their strength to 1.0 options rather than considering their current in game impact?

Because I feel like most have a decent impact relative to cost, but only if you actually factor them into your play. Unlike 1.0, where you just throw on the power card and let it do it's thing.

Genuine question, I just really like the upgrade balance of 2.0 and I find it slightly surprising to see everyone underwhelmed.

31 minutes ago, Cuz05 said:

Is it me or is there a general trend towards comparing their strength to 1.0 options rather than considering their current in game impact?

Because I feel like most have a decent impact relative to cost, but only if you actually factor them into your play. Unlike 1.0, where you just throw on the power card and let it do it's thing.

Genuine question, I just really like the upgrade balance of 2.0 and I find it slightly surprising to see everyone underwhelmed.

I feel your analysis is correct. Instead of trying to see what talents are best or how they compare to 1.0, we need to look at where they thrive in 2.0. As an example, Marksmanship is a talent that isn't great on a ton of platforms, but could really be useful on Seyn Marana.

I think 2.0 is less of a, "These cards work all of the time," and more, "There are options for playstyles," and that's more fun to me.

4 hours ago, FTS Gecko said:

I think the word you're looking for is "balanced".

I could not agree more with this statement. people are saying 2.0 is sub par, everything is nerfed etc etc etc.

They had to reset X Wing because the power creep was beyond crazy. The upgrade cards had walls of text to explain this creep and pretty much all you had to worry about was deployment because in game you could easily token stack and re position in most ships. I love that you have to think a lot more about everything from list building to do you re position or add a mod for your attack/defence?

I am enjoying where the game is at, I just hope it stays there.