In my opinion - the Airspeeder is the worst units the Rebels have to offer (may even be the worst unit in the game, in my opinion.)

I feel like the major issue is that it's slightly overcosted by a few points, due to the fact it's about as survivable as a paper towel.

Here's a few ways I think they could fix it.

1 - They could lower its cost. I'd say 150 points, considering how durable it is.

2 - Instead of lowering the cost, they could simply give it Cover 2 base.

3 - If they don't do any FAQs on the unit, I feel like, if they simply released a Pilot card called "Rebel Pilot", that is a 5 point pilot, which increases the cover of the unit by 1, it'd be much better, and would be similar to doing the cover 2 base as mentioned above.

Install a block heater so it’s eadier adapted to the cold climate of Hoth.

40 minutes ago, Drasnighta said:

Install a block heater so it’s eadier adapted to the cold climate of Hoth.

I disagree - a cup holder would be better.

T-47 fix: Don't fly it like you fly speeder bikes.

Its weak and worth a lot of points. Fly it like you want to save it. Its the legion glass cannon and has the best single attack in the game, besides Vader. Flank and wait until turn 3 to engage, and engage well.

Additionally, when all the units are available not as much impact will be on the table, seeing as though most people will wager on a more diversified army.

-25 points.

3 hours ago, chieftom22 said:

T-47 fix: Don't fly it like you fly speeder bikes.

Its weak and worth a lot of points. Fly it like you want to save it. Its the legion glass cannon and has the best single attack in the game, besides Vader. Flank and wait until turn 3 to engage, and engage well.

Additionally, when all the units are available not as much impact will be on the table, seeing as though most people will wager on a more diversified army.

It still doesn't do a lot of good in that case. Spending 25% of your points to only use it for 50-66% of the game for 3-4 attacks (it's the worst objective unit in the game right now) doesn't seem like a good strategy. I've used it to attack every turn of the game, not lost it, and still lost the game on objectives.

Solution 1: Errata the card to be 150-160 points

Solution 2: Errata the card to have 1 more HP and 1 more Breaking point

Solution 3: Release a pilot for Rebels called Wes Janson who gives you surge to hit (or surge to crit if you exhaust him). Make him 5 points and T47 only (include him in a new vehicle pack with a more general use version too)

3 hours ago, arnoldrew said:

It still doesn't do a lot of good in that case. Spending 25% of your points to only use it for 50-66% of the game for 3-4 attacks (it's the worst objective unit in the game right now) doesn't seem like a good strategy. I've used it to attack every turn of the game, not lost it, and still lost the game on objectives.

I see your point! Not best unit in the game, but I wouldn't say useless, or that it needs to the be fixed ALREADY.

I reiterate my statement, wait until more units are out and people forget that the speeder CAN be viable.

I'd probably check the repulsorlift first, then the steering.

the one that was shot out of the sky by the AT-AT and did an out of control sideways corkscrew spin I would probably write off as totalled. ( the one at 1:37)

On ‎10‎/‎6‎/‎2018 at 3:01 AM, Alino said:

In my opinion - the Airspeeder is the worst units the Rebels have to offer (may even be the worst unit in the game, in my opinion.)

I feel like the major issue is that it's slightly overcosted by a few points, due to the fact it's about as survivable as a paper towel.

Here's a few ways I think they could fix it.

1 - They could lower its cost. I'd say 150 points, considering how durable it is.

2 - Instead of lowering the cost, they could simply give it Cover 2 base.

3 - If they don't do any FAQs on the unit, I feel like, if they simply released a Pilot card called "Rebel Pilot", that is a 5 point pilot, which increases the cover of the unit by 1, it'd be much better, and would be similar to doing the cover 2 base as mentioned above. 

1) It's more durable than the AT-RT, the only other vehicle option for Rebels (armor + defensive surge + cover 1 + immune to blast & melee vs...armor), and it's more durable than the vehicle counterparts from the empire ATST (armor, defensive surge, weak point rear!), Speederbikes (cover 1, defensive surge, multi-mini means loss of offense from 3 hits)

2) For 20 points raising its cost to equal the AT-ST it rolls up to 10 dice (3 red, 7 black) each round. For the same buy-in the Empire gets only 6 dice (AT-ST: 2 red, 2 black, 2 white, ew). Other units roll between 4-7 dice (before they start taking casualties)

It has more wounds than any other rebel unit, and any unit except Vader and the AT-ST, has more damage output than any other unit (even a modified AT-ST is throwing out lower quality dice with severe range restrictions).

I'm not seeing a way to improve it that doesn't stretch into the realm of absurd, given that it's already the best in virtually every category.

simple fix give it second gun larger firing arc so you can get a double arc on atst. maybe every thing but front arc, it will make it more fun fly as well more likely you pay for the extra gun and make arsenal 2 worth something i would fly it then and i would take the harpoon then.

I think you need a post on how to fix vehicles in general. People use the AtSt but it gets ignored and loses games. At least the speeder is maneuverable.

I don't think the airspeeder is bad. I fly them and have fun doing it, so it must be working to some degree. They work better in pairs so when you hit a flank you can hit it hard and decrease the amount of return fire. The big draw back of them right now isn't the points cost exactly but the fact that it is difficult to run large numbers of activations after putting them in a list. If you build the rest of your list around cheap units that give you lots of activations they become much more survivable on those early turns because you can delay them moving up until the opponent has very little firepower left to attack them with. I think all heavy vehicles have this problem.

13 hours ago, Derrault said:

1) It's more durable than the AT-RT, the only other vehicle option for Rebels (armor + defensive surge + cover 1 + immune to blast & melee vs...armor), and it's more durable than the vehicle counterparts from the empire ATST (armor, defensive surge, weak point rear!), Speederbikes (cover 1, defensive surge, multi-mini means loss of offense from 3 hits)

2) For 20 points raising its cost to equal the AT-ST it rolls up to 10 dice (3 red, 7 black) each round. For the same buy-in the Empire gets only 6 dice (AT-ST: 2 red, 2 black, 2 white, ew). Other units roll between 4-7 dice (before they start taking casualties)

It has more wounds than any other rebel unit, and any unit except Vader and the AT-ST, has more damage output than any other unit (even a modified AT-ST is throwing out lower quality dice with severe range restrictions).

I'm not seeing a way to improve it that doesn't stretch into the realm of absurd, given that it's already the best in virtually every category.

While it is true that is near the top in almost every category in terms of raw numbers, it is also near the top in expense. If you look at it on a per point basis, it is actually pretty much at the bottom of every chart, whether you are checking for attack power or durability.

Just because something has really good stats doesn't mean it is efficient. I think you could give the airspeeder a decent buff and it still would not be OP, in spite of its impressive stats. It's even more impressive cost is what weighs it down, especially in light of objectives play and activation counts, which the speeder does nothing to help.

Overall, I love using it, but I think it stinks in competitive play.

Anything that costs nearly a 1/4 to 1/5 of a list needs to feel overpowered. Just like Vader once he engages feels unstoppable. Neither the AtSt or the airspeeder feel overpowered.

3 hours ago, Jedhead said:

While it is true that is near the top in almost every category in terms of raw numbers, it is also near the top in expense. If you look at it on a per point basis, it is actually pretty much at the bottom of every chart, whether you are checking for attack power or durability.

Just because something has really good stats doesn't mean it is efficient. I think you could give the airspeeder a decent buff and it still would not be OP, in spite of its impressive stats. It's even more impressive cost is what weighs it down, especially in light of objectives play and activation counts, which the speeder does nothing to help.

Overall, I love using it, but I think it stinks in competitive play.

True, it’s less efficient in terms of points per die, but it also has unique features that can’t be acquired for fewer points by the rebels (speed 3 movement, ignoring terrain below height 2, armor+cover1+defensive surge, immunity to melee/blast, full dice until destruction). If you want those features as a Rebel (outside a commander) you pretty much have to pay for them in spite of the inefficiency in terms of points per die.

I gave up myself and it hasn't worried me yet.

Last time I tried we played short edge to short edge and it didn't have too much room to move.

I am looking forwards to seeing more choice in the vehicle department. Right now we have 7 months of nothing but infantry. So upgrade cards that are vehicle specific may just be enough.

42 minutes ago, Amanal said:

I gave up myself and it hasn't worried me yet.

Last time I tried we played short edge to short edge and it didn't have too much room to move.

I am looking forwards to seeing more choice in the vehicle department. Right now we have 7 months of nothing but infantry. So upgrade cards that are vehicle specific may just be enough.

Totally agree, having more units with armor probably will increase the value on the Impact 3 of the speeder as well

1 hour ago, Derrault said:

True, it’s less efficient in terms of points per die, but it also has unique features that can’t be acquired for fewer points by the rebels (speed 3 movement, ignoring terrain below height 2, armor+cover1+defensive surge, immunity to melee/blast, full dice until destruction). If you want those features as a Rebel (outside a commander) you pretty much have to pay for them in spite of the inefficiency in terms of points per die.

Yes, you gain access to a whole suite of cool features. Unfortunately, those features just aren't that useful right now, because the trooper swarms that are the flavor of the month just annihilate speeders due to their greater efficiency and objective-based superiority. I agree with the posts above that the airspeeder will benefit if and when there is a more vehicle-heavy meta or some vehicle-focused objectives. The features you list are mainly useful against vehicles, especially the speed that allows arc-dodging and the impact, both of which are mostly wasted on troopers. Unless you see a list that invests heavily in vehicles, the airspeeder will struggle mightily to make back it points.

The biggest problem with the Airspeeder is that it has Arsenal 2. The cost of the Arsenal key word is part of the huge price, and rightly so, Arsenal is a powerful keyword for units, but the Airspeeder’s secondary weapon is rear facing and that is a problem. It is hard (not impossible) to properly utilize the secondary weapon each round to get the value out of the cost associated with Arsenal and the weapon attached to it. If you don’t take the secondary weapon to help reduce the overall cost of the Airspeeder (so you don’t have to add the 20 points for that weapon), then you’re still paying for the Arsenal keyword and not utilizing it. So no matter how you slice it, the Airspeeder seems overcosted.

The easiest way to fix this is to create a 0pt upgrade card that is for the Airspeeder only and adds a Gunnery/Crew slot and takes up the Gunnery/Crew slot. The card should then make the secondary weapon more effective in some way, if it’s only as simple as increasing the range to 3 or that it can fire in a 270 degree arc (everywhere but the front arc). This way, you would be able to utalize the secondary weapon and thereby increasing the value of having it. There may be better special abilities to add to the card, but at least it would still keep things thematic and not require any errata or rewrites.

22 minutes ago, JediPartisan said:

The biggest problem with the Airspeeder is that it has Arsenal 2. The cost of the Arsenal key word is part of the huge price, and rightly so, Arsenal is a powerful keyword for units, but the Airspeeder’s secondary weapon is rear facing and that is a problem. It is hard (not impossible) to properly utilize the secondary weapon each round to get the value out of the cost associated with Arsenal and the weapon attached to it. If you don’t take the secondary weapon to help reduce the overall cost of the Airspeeder (so you don’t have to add the 20 points for that weapon), then you’re still paying for the Arsenal keyword and not utilizing it. So no matter how you slice it, the Airspeeder seems overcosted.

The easiest way to fix this is to create a 0pt upgrade card that is for the Airspeeder only and adds a Gunnery/Crew slot and takes up the Gunnery/Crew slot. The card should then make the secondary weapon more effective in some way, if it’s only as simple as increasing the range to 3 or that it can fire in a 270 degree arc (everywhere but the front arc). This way, you would be able to utalize the secondary weapon and thereby increasing the value of having it. There may be better special abilities to add to the card, but at least it would still keep things thematic and not require any errata or rewrites.

I find it very unlikely anyone takes a vehicle and doesn’t add on a secondary weapon, it would be like taking the AT-ST without any additional weapons. Why use the heavy vehicles at all if you’re going to skimp out on the upgrades? The 20 points for the ground buzzer are certainly better spent than for 2 additional troopers (4 black dice that last until the unit it destroyed/7 wounds, vs 2 black dice that go away after a wound each (2 wounds); buzzer is more than 400% more efficient as a use of points.

1 minute ago, Derrault said:

I find it very unlikely anyone takes a vehicle and doesn’t add on a secondary weapon, it would be like taking the AT-ST without any additional weapons. Why use the heavy vehicles at all if you’re going to skimp out on the upgrades? The 20 points for the ground buzzer are certainly better spent than for 2 additional troopers (4 black dice that last until the unit it destroyed/7 wounds, vs 2 black dice that go away after a wound each (2 wounds); buzzer is more than 400% more efficient as a use of points.

Oddly I’ve seen and heard a lot of people argue that they like to play the Airspeeder naked. Me personally, I think, “in for a penny, in for a pound”, you might as well get it, if you’re already spending 175 pts, but you will still have an issue with effectiveness and the rear facing weapon, not to mention it’s only range 2.

But I can understand their argument for not getting the extra weapon, 20 pts for 4 black dice wouldn’t be bad, but for the rear facing and range 2, which means you’re taking two negatives on that price and not getting anything in return. Look at the only comparator, the AT-RT Rotary Cannon. It has 5 black dice for 30 pts, but it’s foward facing and up to range 3, so for 10 more points not only will it be facing forward, but it’s one range greater and one extra die.

Also if you do spend the 20 pts on extra troopers, then that’s 1 extra health for those units as well as an extra damage die, so it’s more than just damage.

45 minutes ago, JediPartisan said:

The biggest problem with the Airspeeder is that it has Arsenal 2. The cost of the Arsenal key word is part of the huge price, and rightly so, Arsenal is a powerful keyword for units, but the Airspeeder’s secondary weapon is rear facing and that is a problem. It is hard (not impossible) to properly utilize the secondary weapon each round to get the value out of the cost associated with Arsenal and the weapon attached to it. If you don’t take the secondary weapon to help reduce the overall cost of the Airspeeder (so you don’t have to add the 20 points for that weapon), then you’re still paying for the Arsenal keyword and not utilizing it. So no matter how you slice it, the Airspeeder seems overcosted.

The easiest way to fix this is to create a 0pt upgrade card that is for the Airspeeder only and adds a Gunnery/Crew slot and takes up the Gunnery/Crew slot. The card should then make the secondary weapon more effective in some way, if it’s only as simple as increasing the range to 3 or that it can fire in a 270 degree arc (everywhere but the front arc). This way, you would be able to utalize the secondary weapon and thereby increasing the value of having it. There may be better special abilities to add to the card, but at least it would still keep things thematic and not require any errata or rewrites.

+1 to that. Good analysis.

1 hour ago, Derrault said:

I find it very unlikely anyone takes a vehicle and doesn’t add on a secondary weapon, it would be like taking the AT-ST without any additional weapons. Why use the heavy vehicles at all if you’re going to skimp out on the upgrades? The 20 points for the ground buzzer are certainly better spent than for 2 additional troopers (4 black dice that last until the unit it destroyed/7 wounds, vs 2 black dice that go away after a wound each (2 wounds); buzzer is more than 400% more efficient as a use of points.

But you can’t always calculate the actual effectiveness of a unit or an upgrade on the pure maths.

Buying an extra weapon for the AT-ST is a much easier decision - it fires in the same direction as the main weapons, so if you can fire one, you should be able to fire the other. In that case, Arsenal really works.

Only being able to purchase a rear facing weapon is, overall, an inferior option. Yes, there will always be moments where it’s a huge advantage, but by and large it’s not as effective.

Also, factor in that the AT-ST has better forward facing armour; whereas the snowspeeder, in general, is exposing itself to increased danger by plopping itself in the middle of enemy units, just to get that second shot off.

Remove Arsenal 2, replace it with a new keyword, Gunner: This unit my fire one of its weapons as a free action.