2 hours ago, Redsavina said:

You are correct about not wanting to accept that I forked over almost $1000 on this game without any indication that they were going to essentially make my previous purchases invalid, and require more purchases to play. Thats not ethical in my opinion. Not sure why people get all defensive about my experience, when its just that, my experience. Havent I made the investment to post my experience on the official forums at this point? Surprised moderators havent shut it down yet because it isnt blindly praising their business model.

Son, every wave basically obsoleted the waves before it, in part, if not in whole. Sloops reduced the value of k-turns. T-Rolls reduced the value of sloops (ok not really, but this is a pretty basic example of power creep). Personally, I'm super duper not happy they let 1.0 get so stupid toxic that it required a full reboot of the game, but almost *all* of us were at the point where we were sick of the weeping shithole that 1.0 had become, and people were walking away **regardless of the amount they'd "invested"**.

note- "invested" is in quotes because the last thing anything like a game of this sort is could be considered is an "investment". With an investment, there's a reasonable expectation of the eventual appreciation of value. When a product has no rarity or run limits, it's not an investment, it's a liability. You paid to purchase a physical asset with no guarantee of value appreciation, and in fact, it's almost guaranteed to depreciate.

You're welcome to your opinion, and free to exercise it as you will. Sorry you paid hard earned money for something that didn't meet your uninformed expectations. I'd recommend selling the upgrade kit you bought on ebay, you might recoup some of your expenditure.

1 hour ago, Redsavina said:

You are correct about not wanting to accept that I forked over almost $1000 on this game without any indication that they were going to essentially make my previous purchases invalid, and require more purchases to play. Thats not ethical in my opinion. Not sure why people get all defensive about my experience, when its just that, my experience. Havent I made the investment to post my experience on the official forums at this point? Surprised moderators havent shut it down yet because it isnt blindly praising their business model.  

you're kinda complaining about the business model of table top gaming in general. if it's not a pen and paper rpg like DnD, most table top gaming features a set run time for that game. X-wing will only be widely played in game stores while the game is still getting new releases and that is totally normal for any game out there. a store isn't going to host events for people who aren't going to buy anything. 1st ed had, what? a five year run? and in that run everything you bought could still be used in sanctioned play? that's not a super common thing in games like this. Magic the Gathering is a great example of this model at work. sure there are formats where all to most cards in existence are legal, but their main sanctioned play formats feature only cards from the newest product lines. this is to keep the game both fresh, and profitable. FFG is really really nice in this regard with almost all of the games they produce. the old stuff might not be as good as the new stuff but it's still allowed to be there. the only exception to that is when they have to hit the reset button, and do a new edition. X-wing ran for a long time. It ran so long that many components of the game became obsolete which is just never fun. The devs clearly felt that while the game was still fun, needed to be rethought if it was going to have room to keep growing. Gaming is not always a cheap hobby. Miniature gaming, is almost never cheap. The conversion kits may have issues, but honestly I see it as the best possible way to keep 1st ed players from just jumping ship en masse. no one wants their entire collection to be useless and ffg knows that, hence the kits. You can be mad, that's fine, but try to understand that the conversion to 2nd ed is entirely to keep the game going for longer than another year or two. if 1st ed kept on going we probably would've started to see some ships get a second or even third fix pack to get them even with ships that came out recently. does that sound more appealing to you than buying a kit once? it doesn't to me.

1 hour ago, Redsavina said:

Actually, it should read "X-Wing Miniatures Second Edition - Throw away all 1st edition components except for your ships, spend $1000 on 2nd edition, and in a few years, rinse and repeat for 3rd edition." At least be upfront and honest about your business practices to your community.

I was just being a little facetious ?

4 hours ago, RebelProfundity said:

There is definitely a bridge somewhere with billy goats just flying across it completely unhindered.

Looks like the Games Workshop employees are out in force today. They really don't like not having the #1 miniatures game, do they?

1 minute ago, FTS Gecko said:

Looks like the Games Workshop employees are out in force today. They really don't like not having the #1 miniatures game, do they?

Man, I played that **** when Rogue Trader was the source manual for WH40k. I bought 30 beakies for $29.99. Those were the days! (also, my first beakie box had an extra special/heavy weapons sprue in it, so I scored a third missile launcher and flamer! epic win!).

id like to see a 2nd run of conversion kits with some tweeks to their contents. (Idealistic I know). The reworked kits would include shield tokens, bomb tokens, unique pilots not double sided, moldy crow upgrade in scum kit etc. FFG created fixes for 1.0 so why not continue this with 2.0?

i suspect 'fixes' will arrive in expansion packs and individual 2.0 ship releases but i bet there are plenty of 1.0 players that are sitting back waiting for the bugs to be worked out with 2.0 before they commit to investing more $ into 2.0.

6 minutes ago, JasonCole said:

Man, I played that **** when Rogue Trader was the source manual for WH40k. I bought 30 beakies for $29.99. Those were the days! (also, my first beakie box had an extra special/heavy weapons sprue in it, so I scored a third missile launcher and flamer! epic win!).

You and me both. Good ol' Rogue Trader, with Squats and Ambulls and Catachan Devils and Macrocannons and whatnot. Back in the day when White Dwarf was more than just an advertising catalogue and actually contained rules and fluff and campaign ideas. Then they went all IP-craycray with their naming conventions, changed their rules every six months and s**tcanned an entire setting.

At least their share price is through the roof though. Gotta keep the investors happy!

6 hours ago, Redsavina said:

Yep, that's exactly what I expected. If FFG sold me over 10 waves of ships, then reset the game, advertised conversion kits to use previously released product, but then you really can't, then my next expectation would be to return their "expired" product for store credit towards 2.0 content.

What company offers this system? Because allowing players to make a single initial purchase and then continuously trade it in for new product at no extra cost sounds like a great way for any physical gaming company to go bankrupt in record time.

2 hours ago, Redsavina said:

Actually, it should read "X-Wing Miniatures Second Edition - Throw away all 1st edition components except for your ships, spend $1000 on 2nd edition, and in a few years, rinse and repeat for 3rd edition." At least be upfront and honest about your business practices to your community.

Second Edition . It's in the name of the product. Do you not understand what that part of the name meant? A new edition of something means it supersedes previous editions. Honestly, I was a bit surprised they included the Conversion kits to allow us to bring all the old models in at once.

2 hours ago, Redsavina said:

You are correct about not wanting to accept that I forked over almost $1000 on this game without any indication that they were going to essentially make my previous purchases invalid, and require more purchases to play. Thats not ethical in my opinion. Not sure why people get all defensive about my experience, when its just that, my experience. Havent I made the investment to post my experience on the official forums at this point? Surprised moderators havent shut it down yet because it isnt blindly praising their business model.

I'm not sure people are getting defensive so much as they are bewildered that someone would go all-in on Second Edition without having the faintest clue what it was all about. If you don't like Second Edition and are regretting your purchase, that's all well and good; but to claim that FFG was unethical for doing exactly what they announced multiple times they were going to do is, quite frankly, wrong.

2 hours ago, Redsavina said:

Actually, it should read "X-Wing Miniatures Second Edition - Throw away all 1st edition components except for your ships, spend $1000 on 2nd edition, and in a few years, rinse and repeat for 3rd edition." At least be upfront and honest about your business practices to your community.

The fact that only ships (and bases and pegs) were compatible was stated pretty clearly by FFG.

You also can use a lot of your game tokens pretty reasonably. Focus, evade, etc. Shields just need a red side, which is easy enough to make happen.

Cards and ship tokens are out, yeah. And that has been stated well ahead of second editions release.

36 minutes ago, FTS Gecko said:

You and me both. Good ol' Rogue Trader, with Squats and Ambulls and Catachan Devils and Macrocannons and whatnot. Back in the day when White Dwarf was more than just an advertising catalogue and actually contained rules and fluff and campaign ideas. Then they went all IP-craycray with their naming conventions, changed their rules every six months and s**tcanned an entire setting.

At least their share price is through the roof though. Gotta keep the investors happy!

Want a Space Marine to run with a Las Cannon? Good job bro! You just bought a $30 box of (iirc) 40 imperial guard meatshields!

edit - I'm still a fan of the Compendium. It started to establish some reasonable squad building mechanics. After that though, straight downhill with the codex approach. The Epic format was GREAT! Cards. Companies! WAR!
Sad that the best format died first.

6 minutes ago, Ixidor said:

Shields just need a red side, which is easy enough to make happen.

If you're playing casual and don't have any regeneration, you don't even need that. (Just make sure it's ok with the people you're playing with if you remove them instead of flipping them.)

6 hours ago, RebelProfundity said:

There is definitely a bridge somewhere with billy goats just flying across it completely unhindered.

This is great; hope I remember it when the opportunity arises.

10 hours ago, JasonCole said:

Want a Space Marine to run with a Las Cannon? Good job bro! You just bought a $30 box of (iirc) 40 imperial guard meatshields!

Don't Ever Forget - What You See Is What You Get.

10 hours ago, JasonCole said:

edit - I'm still a fan of the Compendium. It started to establish some reasonable squad building mechanics. After that though, straight downhill with the codex approach. The Epic format was GREAT! Cards. Companies! WAR! Sad that the best format died first.

I played some 40K tournaments between, what was it, 4th and 6th edition? It was fun at times, utterly painful at others. You could spend 20 minutes deploying your army, take a glance across the table and sweep your models off the table with a dustpan and brush before the first dice were rolled. It's true that the competitive scene will always gravitate towards the most OP combinations, but 40K was just ridiculous.

Mind you, they always said they were a miniatures/hobby company first, a gaming company second. The rules were an afterthought.

X-wing 2.0 is a clear cash grab by FFG. They just want you to dump money into all new ships. The conversion kits are of limited help. 1.0 was hardly “broken.” We all loved playing it. Now we have to invest ridiculous amounts of money to play 2.0? And if we don’t, but our friends do...then we are out of luck? FFG was transparent about the product, but the motive is suspect. If 1.0 had issues, then just fix them.

1 minute ago, Dmcojo said:

If 1.0 had  issues, th  en just fix them 

They did, it was called 2.0.

And Interceptor fans agree, this was the only way.

17 minutes ago, millertime059 said:

They did, it was called 2.0.

And Interceptor fans agree, this was the only way.

Meaning...do an errata or just update the overpowered ships. To reboot the game is a disservice to the fan base. But maybe others have more to spend on new 2.0 ships than I do.

2 minutes ago, Dmcojo said:

Meaning...do an errata or just update the overpowered ships. To reboot the game is a disservice to the fan base. But maybe others have more to spend on new 2.0 ships than I do.

They did errata after errata. And there were some ships that were dead, and never coming back. Some genies couldn’t be put back in the bottle.

So, yeah, at some point a new redesign is needed. And many of the changes are straight improvements. I love the linked action system, the force charges, the loss of cards like Expertise.

Flexible points and slots are far superior ways to deal with this.

just keep playing 1.0

but if for some reason that does not sound good think about why.

4 minutes ago, TylerTT said:

just keep playing 1.0

but if for some reason that does not sound good think about why.

Nah, I’m out. Selling my stuff because I’m irritated it won’t be supported. I do love the RPG though.

Well that’s fair.

For my part I would have kept playing, had they continued the path of 1.0. But to me the 2.0 path is a better game, and personally more enjoyable. I can fly my Interceptors again. Strikers are still amazing. I can fly a Phantom without feeling like a degenerate with no challenge (being first to shoot) or like I auto lost (anything else). A-Wings are… well ok I can’t have everything.

And as someone who always bucks the meta, that makes me happy. I see more list diversity, and I’ve found a way to make almost every ship or crew usable. Some still struggle, but still usually.

If you are not going to play 1.0 because it is o longer being updated, perhaps you recognize there are problems. And if you recognize that, perhaps you realize that infinite errata and Ace ‘fix’ packs could not solve all of that. And if you realize that, then you know, deep down, that at some point the system needed a reboot, or it needed to be put to pasture.

Your loss.

13 minutes ago, millertime059 said:

Well that’s fair.

For my part I would have kept playing, had they continued the path of 1.0. But to me the 2.0 path is a better game, and personally more enjoyable. I can fly my Interceptors again. Strikers are still amazing. I can fly a Phantom without feeling like a degenerate with no challenge (being first to shoot) or like I auto lost (anything else). A-Wings are… well ok I can’t have everything.

And as someone who always bucks the meta, that makes me happy. I see more list diversity, and I’ve found a way to make almost every ship or crew usable. Some still struggle, but still usually.

If you are not going to play 1.0 because it is o longer being updated, perhaps you recognize there are problems. And if you recognize that, perhaps you realize that infinite errata and Ace ‘fix’ packs could not solve all of that. And if you realize that, then you know, deep down, that at some point the system needed a reboot, or it needed to be put to pasture.

Your loss.

Perhaps. I didn’t have a ton, and didn’t play a ton. I actually play more Star Frontiers Knight Hawks anyway. But I wish you all good gaming. Thanks for letting me vent!

On 10/5/2018 at 6:05 PM, Hippie Moosen said:

you're kinda complaining about the business model of table top gaming in general. if it's not a pen and paper rpg like DnD, most table top gaming features a set run time for that game. X-wing will only be widely played in game stores while the game is still getting new releases and that is totally normal for any game out there. a store isn't going to host events for people who aren't going to buy anything. 1st ed had, what? a five year run? and in that run everything you bought could still be used in sanctioned play? that's not a super common thing in games like this. Magic the Gathering is a great example of this model at work. sure there are formats where all to most cards in existence are legal, but their main sanctioned play formats feature only cards from the newest product lines. this is to keep the game both fresh, and profitable. FFG is really really nice in this regard with almost all of the games they produce. the old stuff might not be as good as the new stuff but it's still allowed to be there. the only exception to that is when they have to hit the reset button, and do a new edition. X-wing ran for a long time. It ran so long that many components of the game became obsolete which is just never fun. The devs clearly felt that while the game was still fun, needed to be rethought if it was going to have room to keep growing. Gaming is not always a cheap hobby. Miniature gaming, is almost never cheap. The conversion kits may have issues, but honestly I see it as the best possible way to keep 1st ed players from just jumping ship en masse. no one wants their entire collection to be useless and ffg knows that, hence the kits. You can be mad, that's fine, but try to understand that the conversion to 2nd ed is entirely to keep the game going for longer than another year or two. if 1st ed kept on going we probably would've started to see some ships get a second or even third fix pack to get them even with ships that came out recently. does that sound more appealing to you than buying a kit once? it doesn't to me.

Was going to say the same exact thing. So........ ditto!!!

4 hours ago, Dmcojo said:

1.0 was hardly “broken.” We all loved playing it.

I honestly didn't, really. I wanted to, because I had already collected the models, but most of the ships I wanted to fly were useless unless flown in one specific way.

To paraphrase some advice my dad gave me when I was young, never spend money you can't afford to lose. Whether the payoff is money or fun, nothing is a sure thing.