1 hour ago, Piratical Moustache said:

Honestly it doesn't look that bad when someone like @melminiaturesadds detail to it.

Ok, so this has been redeemed! Did he make a Tartan? (I personally dont think the Tartan can be redeemed though...)

27 minutes ago, Zeoinx said:

Ok, so this has been redeemed! Did he make a Tartan? (I personally dont think the Tartan can be redeemed though...)

I personally love the tartan design. I know I'm in the minority but I think it's a nice design.

27 minutes ago, BlueSquadronPilot said:

I personally love the tartan design. I know I'm in the minority but I think it's a nice design.

Agreed, I always liked it as well. I still wouldn't mind seeing it added to Armada as an ultimate anti squadron ship. The Radier can kill both squads or ships if built properly, but neither very well. A tarten could be the squad killer the empire needs!

I think the Tartan would be a good opposite to the CR90. That broadside looks really cool. I wonder if FFG would out source to Mel’s minis so they could concentrate on the rules side of things.

10 hours ago, Piratical Moustache said:

Honestly it doesn't look that bad when someone like @melminiaturesadds detail to it.

If it was more elongated I think I could like it.

Re: some of the rules listed.

You need a way to define new concepts and either new tools, or new ways of existing tool usage to get things right.

How do you enforce “forward” in regards to moving something directly ahead? Even if you do for one turn, if it’s a circular token as suggested, how do you enforce that continually?

2 hours ago, Lord Tareq said:

If it was more elongated I think I could like it.

It's 500 meters long according to the old Databank entry, 200 meters longer than the Nebulon-B.

Concept art suggested that the game designers had it at around 50-60 meters in length.

I do agree with you that it would a bit better if the wings were about 25% longer.

4 hours ago, Drasnighta said:

Re: some of the rules listed.

You need a way to define new concepts and either new tools, or new ways of existing tool usage to get things right.

How do you enforce “forward” in regards to moving something directly ahead? Even if you do for one turn, if it’s a circular token as suggested, how do you enforce that continually?

that is why my version uses

• the range ruler to place attack ( instead of attacking normally, possibly using a concentrate fire order or token)
• a simple new token ( Barrage token?)
• acts as a normal attack of st strenght the next round ( start of the ship phase) at predetermined range ruler range from token.

which seems the simplest way to implement a missile "ship flak"

How about using 3 missile tokens within distance 1 of each other within red dice range? Next turn the missiles detonate, and any ships/squadrons within distance 1 of a token are hit with 1 black dice per token in range?

If any ship is within the front arc at black dice range the barrage attack could be blocked as a balance mechanic.

21 minutes ago, Piratical Moustache said:

How about using 3 missile tokens within distance 1 of each other within red dice range? Next turn the missiles detonate, and any ships/squadrons within distance 1 of a token are hit with 1 black dice per token in range?

If any ship is within the front arc at black dice range the barrage attack could be blocked as a balance mechanic.

what if you give the tokens 1 health and targetable by anti-squadron too. theres so much possibilities.

3 minutes ago, Geressen said:

what if you give the tokens 1 health and targetable by anti-squadron too. theres so much possibilities.

If Ordinance upgrades worked with the new barrage attack like ACMs or APTs then the Broadside cruiser would probably become the priority target of any game.

The Interdictor at the moment has unique abilities and special tokens, why not the Broadside as well?

7 minutes ago, Piratical Moustache said:

If Ordinance upgrades worked with the new barrage attack like ACMs or APTs then the Broadside cruiser would probably become the priority target of any game.

The Interdictor at the moment has unique abilities and special tokens, why not the Broadside as well?

that would be a way to give it power. but what ships would get the ability? new ships like the broadside or maybe there is a way to implement it to old ships aswell?

the idea of a barrage like anti ship area attack I like.

I just realised you could use squadrons to take out missile/barrage tokens like mentioned previously too, giving squadrons a more important role in screening not just squadrons.

Figured why not post a ship card to add to my idea.

I have no idea how to price the Broadside cruiser with the barrage mechanic, 55pts is likely too low.

Where is the barrage mechanic?

No shop has a mechanic just for being the ship (other than Flotillas)...

Even the Interdictors unique ability is tied to an upgrade slot.

It must be tied to an upgrade, and thus, have the future potential if being used elsewhere.

28 minutes ago, Drasnighta said:

Where is the barrage mechanic?

No shop has a mechanic just for being the ship (other than Flotillas)...

Even the Interdictors unique ability is tied to an upgrade slot.

It must be tied to an upgrade, and thus, have the future potential if being used elsewhere.

The barrage mechanic is this from an earlier post:

"How about using 3 missile tokens within distance 1 of each other within red dice range? Next turn the missiles detonate, and any ships/squadrons within distance 1 of a token are hit with 1 black dice per token in range?

If any ship is within the front arc at black dice range the barrage attack could be blocked as a balance mechanic."

You are also forgetting the SSD which also has innate abilities due to being Huge.

31 minutes ago, Piratical Moustache said:

The barrage mechanic is this from an earlier post:

"How about using 3 missile tokens within distance 1 of each other within red dice range? Next turn the missiles detonate, and any ships/squadrons within distance 1 of a token are hit with 1 black dice per token in range?

If any ship is within the front arc at black dice range the barrage attack could be blocked as a balance mechanic."

You are also forgetting the SSD which also has innate abilities due to being Huge.

Flotilla and Huge ship are CLASSES of things as such delineated by both number of Models (Flotilla) and size of base (Huge).

If it has two ship models on its base, it’s a flotilla (no reference to ship name, is obvious, allows many to do so)

If urs on a huge base, it’s a huge ship. (No reference to name, is obvious, allies manybto do so)

What is this ones defining feature?

ibteresting as well to remember , that both flotilla and huge ship are not mutually exclusive either.

How is it designated as using that feature in game - being that only upgrades use ship names in any way (multi titles)

11 minutes ago, Drasnighta said:

Flotilla and Huge ship are CLASSES of ship, delineated by both number of Models (Fkotilla) and size of base (Huge)

What is this ones defining feature?

ibteresting as well to remember , that both flotilla and huge ship are not mutually exclusive either.

How is it designated as using that feature in game - being that only upgrades use ship names in any way (multi titles)

I think making it an ordinance upgrade card allowing to place barrage tokens at long range would be the way to go about it. sadly this will make it impossible for most ships ( those with a single ordinance spot) to use ordinance upgrades in coordination with the attack

so

Ordinance upgrade:

Missile barrage

instead of a normal attack this ship may place barrage tokens equal to the number of black dice in the hull zone armament up to long range, at the start of the next turn roll a black die for any ship within short range of a token

barrage token: these tokens may be attacked using anti-squadron armament, they are destroyed on a hit. at the start of the turn roll a black dice for each ship within distance 1, then remove the barrage token.

Wether or not other ordinance upgrades apply depends on wether we think the MC75 or any new ship will be balanced or not, I think currently it could potentially be usefull enough firing into tight formations of ships.

8 minutes ago, Geressen said:

I think making it an ordinance upgrade card allowing to place barrage tokens at long range would be the way to go about it. sadly this will make it impossible for most ships ( those with a single ordinance spot) to use ordinance upgrades in coordination with the attack

so

Ordinance upgrade:

Missile barrage

instead of a normal attack this ship may place barrage tokens equal to the number of black dice in the hull zone armament up to long range, at the start of the next turn roll a black die for any ship within short range of a token

barrage token: these tokens may be attacked using anti-squadron armament, they are destroyed on a hit. at the start of the turn roll a black dice for each ship within distance 1, then remove the barrage token.

This works - rule wise - with a minimum of fuss. Only a tidy of wording required for the token, which, really , is about as good as it gets.

Considerations:

Do you consider the direction of attack from the token, or as there is no LOS specified, can the target take the damage anywhere they choose?

Because you can consider those torpedoes either as MIRV style clusters, or just big booms...

If independent targeting cluster warheads:

”Roll a 1 black die battery attack targeting the nearest hull zone of every ship at Close Range, then remove the token” .... for example, if wanting to go that direction...

(My point on this exercise is not to discourage creativity - not at all - it’s to train creativity to fit the framework so it doesn’t rely on common sense, colloquial-isms or ‘close enough’, and doesn’t have unforeseen rules interactions...)

I don't see a problem with an ability being built-into a ship.

If @Geressen's or my mechanic is an Ordinance upgrade for example, then FFG would have much more work to do with balancing, and the Broadside cruiser's claim to fame is stolen by much more durable MC75s and Kuat refits.

5 minutes ago, Piratical Moustache said:

I don't see a problem with an ability being built-into a ship

How do you define it is all I asked.

Is it the word “Broadside” in the title/ship name?

It can’t be “Ordnance”, as that would grant it retroactively to the MC75...

All I’m asking is to hear what it is ?

It would just be a FIRST, and justifying a first isn’t impossible, just... not as good design work for those of us outside the system.

I mean, take for example, in CC, the rules on Interdiction and Hyperspacing out could readily use “Interdictor” as a rule word, but it doesn’t... to future proof...

We need to be wary of enabling and future proofing - both positive and negative.

Perhapsvthen, a new Artillery upgrade slot?

Thats easier to swallow and justify. Allows improvement and expansion, but limits it short term to controllability...

With an artillery slot, you could have it defined as both types of damage dealing.

You could even point out one that allows attached black critical effects.

Just now, Drasnighta said:

How do you define it is all I asked.

Is it the word “Broadside” in the title/ship name?

It can’t be “Ordnance”, as that would grant it retroactively to the MC75...

All I’m asking is to hear what it is ?

It would just be a FIRST, and justifying a first isn’t impossible, just... not as good design work for those of us outside the system.

I mean, take for example, in CC, the rules on Interdiction and Hyperspacing out could readily use “Interdictor” as a rule word, but it doesn’t... to future proof...

We need to be wary of enabling and future proofing - both positive and negative.

Perhaps an icon in the upgrade slot area, with a rules reference sheet in the box?

I do see your points throughout the conservation, but speaking for myself I have bought ships for upgrades to use for other ships, not for the ship that I just bought which isn't a very good feeling.

I don't use RBDs on ARQs or TRCs on MC30s for example.

21 minutes ago, Drasnighta said:

Do you consider the direction of attack from the token, or as there is no LOS specified, can the target take the damage anywhere they choose?

If independent targeting cluster warheads:

”Roll a 1 black die battery attack targeting the nearest hull zone of every ship at Close Range, then remove the token” .... for example, if wanting to go that direction...

I'd say nearest hull.

would also prefer using the ordinance slot as to not to get wild growth of upgrade types. though I see the use in making a new upgrade type

and don't worry I like your input, I myself never put a point cost in any idea because I'm no good at balancing

Hmm this artillery slot could also be how we get the autocannons from the last jedi in armada