Hi there community & I hope writers.
I and my GM have a problem with the Paragon Talents. It is written that:
"Paragon Talents may be gained by characters in two ways: by purchasing them with experience points from a rank or as an elite advancement, or by obtaining all of the Talents which the Paragon Talent replaces. [...] Replacing Existing Talents: If a character has acquired all the Talents that a Paragon Talent replaces, then he may replace their Talents with the Paragon Talent for no experience costs."
Now we have a problem concerning the when and which Talents may be purchased.
My GM says that one gains a Paragon Talent when he can buy it as a Rank Advancement, no matter if he already has all Talents it replaces much earlier. And on top of this, there is the question if I can get a Paragon Talent, if it is not on my Rank Advancement List – like my Tech-Priest is able to buy all Talents it replaces for the "Storm of Blows" Paragon Talent, but never gets to buy it as a rank advancement.
This is not a question about house ruling – it is a question of what do the rules state? Do I get a Paragon Talent as soon as I have acquired all Talents it replaces – or do I have to wait until I am able to buy it as a Rank Advancement – and if this is the case, can I ever get Paragon Talents that are not available as a Rank Advancement?!

Kuririn67 said:

As per the RAW, you get a Paragon talant as soon as you have all the talents that make it up regaurdless as to whether it's in your advancment scheme or not or where in the scheme it is. After all, if you get Paragon Talents and Mastered Skills at ascension time just for moving from rank 8-9,it stands to reason that such would carry over to most any time you meet all requierments. They don't do that much more for your character and were, for the most part, simply intended to save room by lumping like things with like, so it shouldn't be that big of an issue. Of course your GM might have some things planed or a vision for the game which dosn't include lumping like things with like...

Do the rules say somewhere that an acolyte gains the paragon talents before ascension if all required talents are acquired?

An additional question: The rules say that paragon talents "usually" grant further benefits in comparison to the single including talents. Can somebody show me this paragon talents? During my first look I can´t find anyone not to mention that this benefits are usuall.

Oh and sorry for my English, at least I hope anyone could understand it.

Mormacar said:

For example, Berserker and Storm of Blows. Looking at the talents Berserker replaces and applying their effects individually, you are only allowed to make All-Out Attacks when you are frenzied, whereas with Berserker you can also use Swift Attack and Lightning Attack. With Storm of Blows you can eliminate the -10 WS penalty when attacking with two melee weapons at the same time, which you would normally have if you only had Ambidextrous, Two-Weapon Wielder (Melee), Swift Attack and Lightning Attack each one individually.

Mormacar said:

As far as I know, the the rules seem to only cover or are otherwise directed at characters which have ascended to rank 9 as thats all ascension really talks about. However, there's nothing stopping you from letting the Paragons and Mastered skills be availeable to acolytes who meet the prereqs before rank 9.

Edit: on rereading my former respons to this thread, i can see where where what i said could seem to say that, so let me correct that. What i should have said is:

As per the RAW, you get a Paragon talant as soon as you have all the talents that make it up regaurdless as to whether it's in your advancment scheme or not or where in the scheme it is. After all, if you get Paragon Talents and Mastered Skills at ascension time just for moving from rank 8-9, it stands to reason that such would carry over to most any you meet all requierments after rank 8 . They don't do that much more for your character and were, for the most part, simply intended to save room by lumping like things with like, so it shouldn't be that big of an issue. Of course your GM might have some things planed or a vision for the game which dosn't include lumping like things with like...

Sorry for the confusion... and for the failed quote. It's gotta take some kind of genious to figure out how to use these damned weird-assed forums correctly.