• any Defender: Evade + Focus
• any Phantom: Evade (x2 if it's Whisper) + Focus
• Soontir Fel: Evade + Focus
• any TIE/ln, /in, or /v1 within Range 2 of Lt Sai: Evade + Focus
• (add Palpatine to any of those)
• Boba Fett: Calculate + 2x Focus + green rerolls vs. every attack

I haven't noticed any powering-down of multiple defenses, nor any renewed usefulness of mini-swarms of 2 Atk. ships past my very first games of 2.0 when no one knew any of the new power combos yet. On top of that, the increased prevalence of Coordinate makes blocking harder, lack of true turrets makes getting dodged easier, and more Juke carriers means stacking defense doubles as added offense.

22 minutes ago, Quarrel said:

Soontir Fel: Evade + Focus

To get this, you had to get an enemy in your bullseye AND still have your action for evade
Token stacking, but requires a bit of skill.

22 minutes ago, Quarrel said:

(add Palpatine to any of those)

(add 56pts of shuttle+pal for one die result change)

22 minutes ago, Quarrel said:

any TIE/ln, /in, or /v1 within Range 2 of Lt Sai: Evade + Focus

Support ship doing support. Seems OK to me.

22 minutes ago, Quarrel said:

Boba Fett: Focus + Calculate + Reinforce + green rerolls vs. every attack

I admit I don't understand this one.
Calculate via 000 : the enemy can still deny it.
Focus + Reinforce : I assume Focus is from Han Gunner, which is a red action, and reinforce also is. How do you use Han if you're already stressed by doing a reinforce ?
Anyway, even if Han is ******* undercosted, we are talking about a 90 pts ship...

22 minutes ago, Quarrel said:

any Defender: Evade + Focus

Have gone up from 30 to 36 pts (entry fee for PS1 generic). Still powerful but expensive. Plus, they are kinda prevented from getting more actions by themselves through no linked action.
That being said, I was always an advocate of making "Full Throttle" / X7 only for speed 4-5 manoeuvers (can still use it on K-turns, but limits the thing to your current lane).



And don't forget evade also got nerfed, since it doesn't add a result any more.

Basically the tl:dr version....

All of these are situational though.

Defender:Gotta go fast!

Phantom:Use those tokens and you aren't cloaking this turn.

Fel:All reliant on flying

Lt Sai:Support ship tax

Palp: See above

Boba:That's an impossible combo, best you can do is either reinforce OR focus with all that. But with that combo you are running close to half your list, and you have to fly him close to the enemy.

Two dice attacks are quite scary when you can't negate them completely via reinforce.

The only one I've actually seen look like an issue is Han and Perceptive on Boba.

I figured the stress would heavily curtail it, but after watching a few games with it, the Firespray's dial is absolutely fine at coping with it. Mostly because one bank + medium base + white boost + rear arc means its blues still get you plenty of clearance, and you have a lot of arc coverage.

Couple that with the re-rolls and Boba's dice economy is just mad. I watched it absolutely wreck Ten Numb in one game while taking basically no damage in return even though the player flying Ten kinda accidentally cheated by using FCS and Ten's ability as if they were the 1e equivalents (free target lock and changing '0' focus results respectively).

I've also seen him shrug off torpedo hits even after using a focus and re-roll to land a 3 dice, 3 hit shot earlier in the round.

That said, it's almost exactly half a list.

And do I actually have a problem with Boba freakin' Fett being good in a Star Wars game when he has to totally dominate the list?

Nah.

7 minutes ago, GuacCousteau said:

And do I actually have a problem with Boba freakin' Fett being good in a Star Wars game when he has to totally dominate the list?

Nah.

I flew up against a very mean boba list, which absolutely wrecked me. It really got on my nerves that there seemed to be absolutely nothing I could do to stop Boba getting multiple focus tokens and had a load of re-rolls.

I have a problem with it as it just seems way too good.

4 minutes ago, william1134 said:

I flew up against a very mean boba list, which absolutely wrecked me. It really got on my nerves that there seemed to be absolutely nothing I could do to stop Boba getting multiple focus tokens and had a load of re-rolls.

I have a problem with it as it just seems way too good.

It's an interesting one, because it's something that stress control would immediately shut down.

But do we actually want a return of consistent R3-A2 style stress control? I'm not so sure.

I think, for now at least, Boba will be much less effective against a Sloane swarm. I'm surprised I've not seen more of her yet, she seems really powerful, and most of my Rebel lists would be terrified of her.

People with rose-tinted spectacles said that it was a thing of the past, yeah.

Extended format is almost as much of a shitshow as the old 1st Edition.

Boba has plenty of weaknesses though. He's extremely susceptible to crits, so Wedge with a torpedo will wreck him, especially at long range where he doesn't have his re-rolls. Redline isn't half bad either. Soontir will outfly him, Vader will outfly him AND deliver crits, and while Whisper and Rexler might have to work harder to line up a shot, Juke and a free evade means that the Boba player will either have to move first, or let the jukers shoot him first, potentially before he has his Han tokens.

Also, Seventh Sister is absolutely hilarious against this combo. Want your tokens? Well, then you're agility 1 for a turn.

8 minutes ago, SOTL said:

People with rose-tinted spectacles said that it was a thing of the past, yeah.

Extended format is almost as much of a shitshow as the old 1st Edition.

I've been super hyped for Second Edition since it was announced, but honestly, the more I see of Scum, the more I wonder if I even want to continue in X-Wing anymore. It's like the Scum design team didn't get the memo that this was a new edition, and that the ship abilities should be redone accordingly.

4 minutes ago, JJ48 said:

I've been super hyped for Second Edition since it was announced, but honestly, the more I see of Scum, the more I wonder if I even want to continue in X-Wing anymore. It's like the Scum design team didn't get the memo that this was a new edition, and that the ship abilities should be redone accordingly.

Hang tight for Second Edition format, which is going to be super-awesome.

But also, yeah, FFG have never been able to balance any of their games and I wouldn't expect X-Wing Second Edition to be any different. You have to accept that when you buy in.

7 minutes ago, SOTL said:

Hang tight for Second Edition format, which is going to be super-awesome.

The format in which Boba has all his tools while the Empire and Rebels lack some of their best options. And the next wave is 2 mini-factions (One of which has only a single ship!) plus another Scum ship potentially giving Boba more tools. And Wave 3 is two more factions (which leaves very little room to flesh out the existing factions).

I really don't see why people think the Second Edition Standard format is going to be any good any time soon.

Boba alone's not really a problem as he can't token stack very well, and if you build a Boba list he's missing the best wingmen in Second Edition

Play some Second Ed games and get back to me. It feels stripped back to basics and about flying and decision making.

Also I 99% expect the FO and Resistance to have their full conversion kits legal in Second Edition format - 4 ships each. It's the only thing that makes sense.

FFG might not achieve perfect balance with X-Wing, but honestly, have you played any other wargame? X-Wing is so much better at this than pretty much all of the competition that it's almost laughable. Games Workshop barely seem to be trying, and most of the rest either don't have the resources, or are mostly going for an RPG thing where balance is less important.

And yeah, Second Edition format is just DOA. For at least a year it'll be massively unbalanced in terms of releases. The First Order will be limited to one ship in December, and then maybe two in March? Although, maybe a non-swarm SE Empire list will be okay once every non-Vader x1 gets a price drop.

3 minutes ago, Okapi said:

FFG might not achieve perfect balance with X-Wing, but honestly, have you played any other wargame?

Only Armada. If others are even worse than X-Wing, then I'll probably be just as happy never playing them.

5 minutes ago, SOTL said:

Play some Second Ed games and get back to me. It feels stripped back to basics and about flying and decision making.

That's how my Reb vs Imp game felt. My Imp vs Scum game felt very much, "Upgrades and bonuses are more important than flying!"

13 minutes ago, Okapi said:

FFG might not achieve perfect balance with X-Wing, but honestly, have you played any other wargame? X-Wing is so much better at this than pretty much all of the competition that it's almost laughable. Games Workshop barely seem to be trying, and most of the rest either don't have the resources, or are mostly going for an RPG thing where balance is less important.

And yeah, Second Edition format is just DOA. For at least a year it'll be massively unbalanced in terms of releases. The First Order will be limited to one ship in December, and then maybe two in March? Although, maybe a non-swarm SE Empire list will be okay once every non-Vader x1 gets a price drop.

FO and Resistance will get to use all their ships, ill put money on that.

Token stacking is not supposed to disappear, it is supposed to be more expensive than it use to be in V2. For now everything seems cool to me.

7 minutes ago, SOTL said:

FO and Resistance will get to use all their ships, ill put money on that.

I think he means the format that’s “only rereleases” for the newer players, so nothing conversion kit allowed.

In any case, I can’t complain about 2.0 extended format - it seems more fun to me than 1.0 combo wing was. Even the Boba thing - Boba requires good flying to get the combo chain going.

10 minutes ago, ScummyRebel said:

I think he means the format that’s “only rereleases” for the newer players, so nothing conversion kit allowed.

Yes. In that format I expect the FO and Resistance factions will have access to all their ships through the conversion kits.

I'm pretty sure the rules on no conversion kit content will apply to the Rebel/Imp/Scum conversion kit but NOT to the FO/Resistance kits.

3 minutes ago, SOTL said:

Yes. In that format I expect the FO and Resistance factions will have access to all their ships through the conversion kits.

I'm pretty sure the rules on no conversion kit content will apply to the Rebel/Imp/Scum conversion kit but NOT to the FO/Resistance kits.

But why?

The whole point of the 'Second Edition' format is so that new players can play it without having to waste money on 1e expansions and 2e conversion kits.

If FO/Resistance Conversion kit contents are allowed, then you go right back to the problem of veteran players having access to ships and abilities that a new player simply doesn't. Why do you think that's likely?

Personally, I think it's far more likely to go the other way - none of the FO/Resistance ships will be legal for Second Edition format until they've had a second wave.

What's really baffling is that FFG could have avoided all of this by just releasing the Silencer or /sf along with the /fo. Resistance players can easily field a decent list between T-70 and RZ-2 aces and generics. ****, they probably could have done it with just the T-70. It's only FO players who have been shafted by only having one type of ship (and the cheapest and therefore least individually useful at that) released.

1 hour ago, SOTL said:

People with rose-tinted spectacles said that it was a thing of the past, yeah.

Extended format is almost as much of a shitshow as the old 1st Edition.

This is complete nonsense. There is no matchup where I feel like they’re immune to red dice. Defenders are the closest thing, but they have no Palp and they’re capped at 3 evades. In first edition they could reliably pull out 4 evades whenever they wanted to, making them all but immune to even 3-dice ships. That is no longer even close to true.

14 minutes ago, GuacCousteau said:

But why?

The whole point of the 'Second Edition' format is so that new players can play it without having to waste money on 1e expansions and 2e conversion kits.

If FO/Resistance Conversion kit contents are allowed, then you go right back to the problem of veteran players having access to ships and abilities that a new player simply doesn't. Why do you think that's likely?

There's an entry point of entirely new ship releases for new players into 5 out of 7 factions, and a crossover into Second Edition of conversion kits for veteran players in 5 out of 7 factions.

1 minute ago, SOTL said:

There's an entry point of entirely new ship releases for new players into 5 out of 7 factions, and a crossover into Second Edition of conversion kits for veteran players in 5 out of 7 factions.

Yes. That's why there's Second Edition format and Extended format.

I have yet to see anything that is broken in 2.0, and we have the tools to fix some of the broken interactions. Extended is not a **** show, it actually feels really fun so far. Boba still requires pretty good flying or he dies quickly, and his partners are almost exclusively squishy because of his cost, if you can kill box them effectively.

21 minutes ago, GuacCousteau said:

The whole point of the 'Second Edition' format is so that new players can play it without having to waste money on 1e expansions and 2e conversion kits.

No, that's a small part of the point.

The point of Second Edition format is to be the sales enhancing organised play route for all the new ships from the Resistance and Clone Wars eras that are the future of X-Wing Miniatures Game.

Extended is on borrowed time and Second Edition format is the future of the game.

26 minutes ago, dsul413 said:

I have yet to see anything that is broken in 2.0, and we have the tools to fix some of the broken interactions. Extended is not a **** show, it actually feels really fun so far. Boba still requires pretty good flying or he dies quickly, and his partners are almost exclusively squishy because of his cost, if you can kill box them effectively.

Annoyingly the most popular list at my club is now super boba and super han together they are an absolute nightmare. So many modifers and taken tokens from me. That and the escape pod flying out and detonating instantly before I can dodge is just the icing on the cake.